[Deck] Turbo Depths

[ottomanottoman]

I haven't been able to make it out to a paper tourney since August and have only played in a few leagues and the legacy community league online over the past three months, but yeah I'm still on BUG when I get to play. Double blue and 1 is rough to have up when you need it. I don't dislike the card in general, it just requires 6+ lands/mana (full land combo + this card) or Hexmage/Depths and 3 mana (two of which needs to be blue). Even with the tri lands and moxes, that's a big ask in a reasonable time frame where windows are small in some of the match-ups you would want it in.

I've been doing well against D+T, Maverick, Eldrazi+ Taxes, and Miracles recently in the community league by running Stifle. It hits basically all of the main problem cards outside of STP which the deck has a ton of answers too... As an additional answer to Wasteland and especially Top into protected Plow or countering a Terminus miracle trigger.... it has been solid.

I'd be interested in seeing your latest list especially since you've added stifles. I'm pretty content with my BG build so far sans trying out the emrakul side board plan and wanted to play around with a BUG list.

[Negator77']

I'd be interested in seeing your latest list especially since you've added stifles. I'm pretty content with my BG build so far sans trying out the emrakul side board plan and wanted to play around with a BUG list.

Its basically my list from the primer minus 2 Mana Confluence and minus 1 Expedition Map in the main for a Gemstone Mine and two flex slots. I've been alternating between moving Needle(s) to the main deck (adding Stifles to the SB in their place) and running Stifle(s) main. Another slot was opened up in the sideboard by taking out the 3rd Flusterstorm for a Stifle since combo has been on the downswing for a while now and Stifle is still serviceable in some of those spots. Those changes, which amount to trimming a land (28 true mana sources still), a map (9 tutors still), and a combo SB card opens up three slots to mess with.

[Lio]

Played in 32 player event and finished with mediocre 3:2. Deck felt good (Oran's EW decklist with Emrakul SB plan), I made some mistakes while sideboarding I am sure and I should have mulliganed more.

R1: BUG Shardless 2:0 - opponent does not have the answers in both games
R2: RG Lands 1:2 - G1 Opponent gets time with Rishadan Ports and assembles combo faster than me. G2 I have quickly token with NotW against Karakas. G3 Opp goes all in on his second turn. I have crop rotation, hexmage, bayou, spirit guides and a sylvan. Somehow I thought I have two Crop Rotations (got confused with new art ..) so I let his Thespian+Depths resolve instead of Crop Rotate into Ghost Quarter. Well, I have only single crop and can't do anything and lose.
R3: Miracles 2:0 - Opponent was mana screwed g1 and double ESG + Hexmage + discard + needle@top got me there. Boarded in emrakul 1.0 + coffers + ugin. I demolish opponent's hand and happily assembling Emrakul plan. Opp topdecks Ensnaring Bridge and two turns later From the Ashes. I am able to create Token and draw removal for his bridge.
R4: 4C Midrange 1:2 - G1 I have needle for his wasteland into combo. G2 and G3 follow same scenario - I end up with 0 cards in hand and two and zero lands. This deck has Wastelands, ton of counterspells, Edicts, discard. It was annihilation.
R5: Grixis Delver 2:0 - easy games.

To assemble Emrakul 1.0 against Miracles is doable unless we meet land destruction. I will try the plan tomorrow, but I am not sold yet.

What do you guys do against something like 4C Midrange? Deck is very grindy and unless we have fast token with discard backup, I don't see this matchup to be positive. Opponent said after the game he boarded out almost all creatures (left only Deathrite Shamans and Snapcasters in) for extra removal of any kind. I was thinking about Delve creatures (Tasigur+Karakas, Gurmag) against such decks not playing white. Or Tireless Tracker as someone mentioned before. Problem is in my LGS there are 4 people on 4C Midrange and I need a gameplan against them. Opinions?

[jdmdave]

After more testing I'm back to the 1 bayou + fetchland plan. More synergy with library.

As for emrakul, I should've specificed Emrakul 1.0 as its (1) uncounterable, (2) recurrable, & (3) can't be delt with PERIOD.

Specifically:

* immune to swords
* Jace is irrelevant
* Terminus puts it back in the deck as opposed to in the yard (surgical)
* can be recurred with ugin

[apple713]

After more testing I'm back to the 1 bayou + fetchland plan. More synergy with library.

As for emrakul, I should've specificed Emrakul 1.0 as its (1) uncounterable, (2) recurrable, & (3) can't be delt with PERIOD.

Specifically:

* immune to swords
* Jace is irrelevant
* Terminus puts it back in the deck as opposed to in the yard (surgical)
* can be recurred with ugin

i think the only thing that gets emrakul 1.0 is council's judgment but I'm not sure that its widely run in miracles any more. If it is it's still a 1-2 of max.

So I take it that Emrakul 1.0 worked all for you?

[ComplexPants]

Just out of curiosity how many times do you feel chalice lost you a game/match versus won the game/match for you? I am a bit salty from a loss to elves in a league last night where my turn 1 chalice on 1 basically lost me the game.

I am debating moving away from the prison route and going towards other options like emrakul and more hate, just because that doesn't threaten our game plan as much.


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[Claymore]

Has anyone actually resolved an Emrakul yet? Seems most recent reports talk about assembling the combo and then just Marit Laging anyway.

[Lio]

Played against Miracles yesterday, drawing 1:1. I was able to assemble Emrakul combo in second game on one life. Game took at least 15 turns with me drawing only three tutor spells and resolving only one! I would not be able to win without Emrakul.

[MBSegal]

Just out of curiosity how many times do you feel chalice lost you a game/match versus won the game/match for you? I am a bit salty from a loss to elves in a league last night where my turn 1 chalice on 1 basically lost me the game.

I am debating moving away from the prison route and going towards other options like emrakul and more hate, just because that doesn't threaten our game plan as much.


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I've never thought Chalice was any good in this deck. Casting it for 1 is basically bad for the deck itself. Casting it for 0 stops a few cards from Storm, but they can easily win through a Chalice on 0 with a high % of hands.

[adrieng]

Chalice is not for elf or tempo ; it is for miracle and storm
@1 against miracle after you are sure you can cheat a marit lage it makes it go for the kill except a one time terminus with a top already in play.
If they answer it that's fine you still have your surgical ; against storm you cast it most of the time for zero avoiding a fast kill while still using your discard.

I started playing with it ; but people didn't read me or didn't understand against which matchups this card was aiming to anwser.

@Apple : can you delete the sideboard strategy in the primer from my older list it is not anylonguer appropriate (stuff with ratchet bomb/sylvan library ...) you could put instead a sideboard strategy from turbo list (which I think are weaker) with guide and petal if someone did the side stratgey as they should

[Claymore]

I'm looking at the sideboard guide that jmdave put together here - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post979743

This guide used Sphere instead of Chalice, and would take out Scrying/Into the North when bringing in spheres.

With 4x Chalice, would we just side out the Crops instead as a 1:1 with Chalice? Or do we want both in as a possible fast play? The matches are the Combo matches - ANT, Belcher, TinFins etc. where you'd probably want to Crop Bog at some point.

[hymnyou]

I've never thought Chalice was any good in this deck. Casting it for 1 is basically bad for the deck itself. Casting it for 0 stops a few cards from Storm, but they can easily win through a Chalice on 0 with a high % of hands.

Agreed, always thought it was a mediocre to poor choice.

[studderingdave]

I have moved over to spheres myself. In limited testing I have been ahead only to be knocked out due to my own chalice on one. I understand that the deck is meant to be fast but it just didnt jive with me.

[molaboy]

Agreed, always thought it was a mediocre to poor choice.

chalice for 0 is so good against ANT and TES.
chalice for 1 is so good against Elves, Delver and Burn.

Yes crop rotation can be hit for chalice for 1 vs miracles but i normally side them out because im scared of the counterspell. but chalice for 1 against them is so good.

[Negator77']

chalice for 0 is so good against ANT and TES.
chalice for 1 is so good against Elves, Delver and Burn.

Yes crop rotation can be hit for chalice for 1 vs miracles but i normally side them out because im scared of the counterspell. but chalice for 1 against them is so good.

One of the main issues with that is that Elves, Delver, and Burn are already favorable match-ups where extra sideboard help isn't generally needed. The main reason to argue in favor of Chalice is if you think it swings the Miracles match-up. Siding out Crop Rotation against Miracles is not something I am a fan of considering crop into steppe (to counter STP) or Bog (to counter Snapcaster) or Wasteland/Ghost Quarter (to cut them off white if they are sloppy/have an awkward draw or leave a fetch as their last untapped land when they activate Top) are all options I like to keep available.

[jdmdave]

Crop rotation is the card that MAKES this deck. Never remove it.

[hymnyou]

One of the main issues with that is that Elves, Delver, and Burn are already favorable match-ups where extra sideboard help isn't generally needed. The main reason to argue in favor of Chalice is if you think it swings the Miracles match-up. Siding out Crop Rotation against Miracles is not something I am a fan of considering crop into steppe (to counter STP) or Bog (to counter Snapcaster) or Wasteland/Ghost Quarter (to cut them off white if they are sloppy/have an awkward draw or leave a fetch as their last untapped land when they activate Top) are all options I like to keep available.

This is correct.

@molaboy
IMO lotus petal is pretty weak against miracles so having null rods to side seems superior, also puts in work on storm (and various other decks) while keeping CR optional for bog or tabernacle (build dependent). Targeted discard is huge for the matchup information wise, chalice shuts that down.
You should not be concerned with Burn. Delver is build dependent. You should be flying over elves unless they can get ruric thar in time. Elves is not a concerning match for this deck, especially for the Maritocracy build that people have been calling Eva Green although it is not Eva Green, thats a different deck entirely (suicide black + goyfs).

[jdmdave]

I remove cards without text in the miracles matchup for those that do, namely -4 lotus petal -2 to 4 elvish spirit guide and -3 into the north

[AmokPL]

You should not be concerned with Burn.

what do you mean by that? do you mean that this is a poor man's choice deck and you shouldn't play against it often so dont bother? or do you mean you always have your token faster than they kill you? Because from my experience Burn ALWAYS gives you 3-4 turns and if you falter, you are dead. And it is a kind of deck I DO NOT WANT TO LOSE. Chalice solves it. So it does solve UR Delver. I don't care if it shuts my Crops and discard as long as the amount of cards they can actually play from their deck drops from 42 to 10-12. Well played Chalice cripples more decks like Reanimator, Lands, Storm and Miracles.

And Crops do get sided out against counters. It is not funny to lose 2 cards for a mere Daze or FoW.

[Whitefaces]

what do you mean by that? do you mean that this is a poor man's choice deck and you shouldn't play against it often so dont bother? or do you mean you always have your token faster than they kill you? Because from my experience Burn ALWAYS gives you 3-4 turns and if you falter, you are dead. And it is a kind of deck I DO NOT WANT TO LOSE. Chalice solves it. So it does solve UR Delver. I don't care if it shuts my Crops and discard as long as the amount of cards they can actually play from their deck drops from 42 to 10-12. Well played Chalice cripples more decks like Reanimator, Lands, Storm and Miracles.

And Crops do get sided out against counters. It is not funny to lose 2 cards for a mere Daze or FoW.

I'm sure he means your second point, this deck can kill much faster than they can kill you. Don't be reactive against them. Nobody wants to lose, especially vs burn, but it's not played anywhere near enough to be a justifiable reason to play Chalice.

If Crop gets Forced it's a 2-for-2, and don't play into Daze?