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Thread: [Deck] Grixis Control / Thieves

  1. #21

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightless View Post
    Strix can still block Emrakul or Primeval Titan and kill them in a fight.
    How often do you win through an Emrakul attack? The Annihilator 6 thing is more than enough to do me 95% of the time, probably more like 99.5% of the time although I'll admit I don't have a sample size and probably never will that would confirm that.

    On another note, has anybody tried a couple of Pack Rat in the build? They grow really fast in the mid-game. Nice that somebody other than green got a creature where summoning sick isn't particularly important for what it does well.

  2. #22

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightless View Post
    Like I mentioned in my post I never played against 12 Post before and so I can only argue on the base what did seem right for me at that moment.
    Coming up with a boarding plan from a close to 0 Information point was not that easy. I didn't even know that he plays Show an Tell.
    Maybe i should have boarde in ghastly Demise to kill Primes.
    I definetly should have boarded in Smashs for the Candelabras and his trinket mage package.

    But with more experience I will get a better felling for what I should do.
    First thing, I want to apologize if the tone of my post came across as too harsh, when posting from work I keep things short and simple, which affects the tone in a negative way sometimes.

    That aside, thank you for the report, much appreciated. Oh, and I wouldn't SB in the Demise vs Post, since it's neither something that clocks your oponent nor actual disruption. He possible shrugs it off when you demised his Primetime since he still got the way better end of the deal.

  3. #23

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    This is definitely a dumb question; but for the life of me I can not figure out what Tsabo's Web is for. Any help?

  4. #24
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    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by starfox444 View Post
    This is definitely a dumb question; but for the life of me I can not figure out what Tsabo's Web is for. Any help?
    Wateland, Rishidan Port?

  5. #25
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    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Tsabo's Web is good agains Port and Thespian Stage, it can also cripple a Karakas and so on. But to be honest, against Wasteland it does close to nothing, most times Wasteland is used the Turn it is played anyway.

    That's actually them main reason I cutted it right away.

  6. #26

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    My intuition is that fighting a mana denial strategy by reaching 2 mana is a dumb way to go about it. If you have access to 2 mana why not play a threat to get on board? Mana denial often puts the person doing it at parity because of how those cards mechanically work (waste, port); that doesn't work when you are ahead on board. Alternatively, why not spend your cantrips to find more land?

    Either of those options sounds better to me than casting Tsabo's Web. With that reasoning, I can't understand when I would want it. Thespian's stage needs to be activated once, pyromancer and planeswalkers ignore maze of ith. If we want a safe manabase; why not an extra basic land? If we want to nullify opposing lands, we can include wasteland ourselves. It seems to have been a staple of the sideboard for a while, hopefully someone can explain the reasoning behind the inclusion of the card, maybe my previous thoughts are wrong.

  7. #27
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    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Like I stated in my tournamentreport I was thinking about adding a 2nd basic and playing Bloodmoon in the Sideboard. Lands is a pretty hard matchup and them other means we have fighting it (Gravehate etc.) don't work well withe the slow clock that we present at some times.
    Bloodmoon is a nice card that in addition to the gravehate gives us more play against a deck like lands.

  8. #28

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    I 3-0'd a small tourney at my local yesterday with this:

    4x Young Pyromancer
    2x Baleful Strix
    1x True-Name Nemesis
    1x Notion Thief

    4x Brainstorm
    4x Ponder
    4x Gitaxian Probe
    4x Force of will
    3x Cabal Therapy
    4x Lightning Bolt
    2x Forked Bolt
    4x Treasure Cruise
    1x Pyroblast
    1x Counterspell
    1x Nihil Spellbomb

    2x Dack Fayden
    1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    3x Flooded Strand
    4x Polluted Delta
    2x Misty Rainforest
    4x Volcanic Island
    3x Underground Sea
    1x Island

    Sideboard:

    2x Pyroblast
    2x Sudden Demise
    2x Surgical Extraction
    1x Grafdigger's Cage
    1x Null Rod
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Hydroblast
    1x Blue Elemental Blast
    2x Smash to Smithereens
    2x Duress

    vs the new Jeskai Ascendancy combo deck with fatestitcher: 2-0
    This deck seemed really bad to me. My game one draw was terrible, but my opponent durdled so long that eventually I resolved some Cruises, and true name got me there with some burn to finish. Game 2 had a decent draw I was in control the whole (long) game.

    vs zoo: 2-0
    Game 1 drew the TNN and he had a slow hand, it was really bad for him. Game 2 was a blowout with an unexpected Sudden demise naming green which wrathed him and generated another token for my YP! (love this card)

    vs reanimator: 2-1
    Game 1 on the play he had turn 2 Gris with no relevant interaction from me. Game 2 I blind therapy name brainstorm and I hit the only gas in his opener. I start going nuts with YP shortly after. Game 3 he plays fetch go. I probe to see he has careful study and reanimate with daze backup. I've got several turn 1 play options, but I decide the safest one is to stick my Grafdigger's Cage with force backup through his daze to negate his reanimate and ensure that the careful study cannot even be card parity for him. The resolved cage buys me enough time to secure the win with YPs and TCs.

    This deck is a blast and pretty decent too. Seems so soft to a number of things, namely -1/-1 effects, Price of Progress, Counterbalance, Chalice. Thankfully, I saw none of that yesterday and I will keep playing this deck. The Notion Thief is not good enough, and it should probably be another TNN. That being said, it's too much fun to drop just yet. Before this deck became a thing I had been trying different ways to utilize the 3 way synergy between Gitaxian Probe - Young Pyromancer - Cabal Therapy. I had even been testing this in the Loam Dack 4c shell for a few weeks. Dropping the green to streamline into Grixis felt right and it's definitely better.

  9. #29

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Tsabo s web is there for Karakas, mainly, but also Rishadan port, Maze of Ith and every manland. Death and taxes is not an easy MU, and Tsabo's web can punish them quite well (every non basics they play won't untap - including waste and canopy) while stopping their karakas vial thing.
    Against lands, it's quite useful when you face Tabernacle + Maze.
    It's hard to find a decent piece of disruption towards lands : playing more basics (blood moon, etc) or dedicated spells (sowing salt) seem all inferior to the current answer we have (Tsabo s web).
    Jemand musste Joseph K. verleumdet haben, denn ohne dass er etwas Böses getan hätte, wurde er eines Morgens verhaftet.

  10. #30
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    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Pyro/Therapy seems like it could be brutal in some MUs. Has anyone tested Inquisition/Thoughtseize?
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    ... It feels like a bummer to spend so much time not talking about the game and more time arguing over whether Dega or Mardu is the better name for a three color deck you'll never see in Legacy.

  11. #31
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    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by JosephK View Post
    Tsabo s web is there for Karakas, mainly, but also Rishadan port, Maze of Ith and every manland. Death and taxes is not an easy MU, and Tsabo's web can punish them quite well (every non basics they play won't untap - including waste and canopy) while stopping their karakas vial thing.
    Against lands, it's quite useful when you face Tabernacle + Maze.
    It's hard to find a decent piece of disruption towards lands : playing more basics (blood moon, etc) or dedicated spells (sowing salt) seem all inferior to the current answer we have (Tsabo s web).
    winter orb maybe?
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  12. #32

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by JosephK View Post
    Tsabo s web is there for Karakas, mainly, but also Rishadan port, Maze of Ith and every manland. Death and taxes is not an easy MU, and Tsabo's web can punish them quite well (every non basics they play won't untap - including waste and canopy) while stopping their karakas vial thing.
    Against lands, it's quite useful when you face Tabernacle + Maze.
    It's hard to find a decent piece of disruption towards lands : playing more basics (blood moon, etc) or dedicated spells (sowing salt) seem all inferior to the current answer we have (Tsabo s web).
    Eh it's not great but I guess it works...I think it would be better to overhaul the sideboard but I'd rather play more with current SB and get a better feel for it first so I won't make any more suggestions here.

    The new sideboard has massacre for D&T which is nice. Not sure how to beat lands, I'm pretty ok with it just being a bad matchup since I think it takes like a good 3-4 slots to fix up that matchup since all our removal is crap in grixis against marit lage and we don't have access to loam to keep the lands coming out.

  13. #33

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Is Ashiok something to be considered in this deck?

    What about stiffle / wasteland package?

    I'm also testing Fire Convenant and DTT in this deck, feels more controlish

  14. #34

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightless View Post
    Tsabo's Web is good agains Port and Thespian Stage, it can also cripple a Karakas and so on. But to be honest, against Wasteland it does close to nothing, most times Wasteland is used the Turn it is played anyway.

    That's actually them main reason I cutted it right away.
    Tsabo's Web doesn't stop Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage though, right? They tap the stage to make it DD and then they get the Marit Lage token anyway?

  15. #35
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    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    Tsabo's Web doesn't stop Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage though, right? They tap the stage to make it DD and then they get the Marit Lage token anyway?
    Sure, but if they turn the Stage into a Taiga or something and you get the Web into play while it's tapped it does.

    Obviously they can Wasteland their own Stage and then Loam it back but it anyway inconveniences them a bit.

  16. #36
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    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    I just lost to a KTK draft deck playing Eli's list with a Notion Thief instead of 3/1 Progenitus. >_>

  17. #37

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    This is the main deck config I have been playing around, still not 100% sure about the mana base may need tweeked but I have been pretty happy with the rest of the list.

    1 Baleful Strix
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Young Pyromancer

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Spell Snare
    3 Cabal Therapy
    1 Forked Bolt
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Ponder
    1 Pyroclasm
    4 Treasure Cruise
    1 Engineered Explosives

    1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
    2 Dack Fayden

    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island

  18. #38

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by Deimos View Post
    This is the main deck config I have been playing around, still not 100% sure about the mana base may need tweeked but I have been pretty happy with the rest of the list.

    1 Baleful Strix
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Young Pyromancer

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Spell Snare
    3 Cabal Therapy
    1 Forked Bolt
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Ponder
    1 Pyroclasm
    4 Treasure Cruise
    1 Engineered Explosives

    1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
    2 Dack Fayden

    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    Ashiok seems interesting, but is her +2 good enough against decks without creatures (-X being useless)? As a storm player myself, I can see it being pretty disruptive if I choose not to shuffle off my ponder or hide cards from therapy with my brainstorm - but I'm not sure how often these sequences would pop up. I suppose if the opponent doesn't have creatures, you can pitch her to FoW. I'm interested in hearing your testing results.

    I think TNN is a great blocker for the walkers, especially since both of them can get out of bolt range with their +1 and +2. Why run EE? And do EE + strix really warrant Academy Ruins?

    Has anyone considered or tested a 1-of Vedalken Shackles in the main or SB? Darkblast also seems a reasonable option for a "control" deck.
    Last edited by disgustipated; 12-14-2014 at 08:14 PM.

  19. #39

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Quote Originally Posted by disgustipated View Post
    Ashiok seems interesting, but is her +2 good enough against decks without creatures (-X being useless)? As a storm player myself, I can see it being pretty disruptive if I choose not to shuffle off my ponder or hide cards from therapy with my brainstorm - but I'm not sure how often these sequences would pop up. I suppose if the opponent doesn't have creatures, you can pitch her to FoW. I'm interested in hearing your testing results.

    I think TNN is a great blocker for the walkers, especially since both of them can get out of bolt range with their +1 and +2. Why run EE? And do EE + strix really warrant Academy Ruins?

    Has anyone considered or tested a 1-of Vedalken Shackles in the main or SB? Darkblast also seems a reasonable option for a "control" deck.
    If I'm honest Ashiok is pretty much just in there because I love that card. It should probably just be a TNN and if I was going to a tourney I would probably shift her to the board and play TNN in that spot. I haven't cast her against storm in testing, have pitched to force or just shuffled away to find more relevant spells.

    EE answers so many cards that could otherwise be a problem (opponents tnn, goyf, chalice etc), is also just a great way of getting back on track if we fall behind too much. The academy isn't the best g1 but recurring EE is pretty hard for decks like UR to beat and getting back Strix in grindy games is great, but with the combination of a bunch of random artifacts in the board (spellbomb, needle etc) and Dack I think it is worth trying.

    Haven't tried but I quite like the idea of Shackles, might give it a test sometime and I agree that darkblast is a pretty reasonable option.

  20. #40

    Re: [DECK] Grixis Control / Thieves

    Just some random thoughts..

    Smash to Smithereens versus Rakdos Charm?

    Fire Covenant versus Sudden Demise and Electrickery?

    Sideboard options versus miracles? Pithing Needle for top/jace. I like Engineered Explosives for the match up as well. Recoil can potentially kill Jace / harder to push a Pyroblast through CB. Having Planeswalkers here is really nice, even if they run red blasts (can therapy/counter them - "protect the queen" strategy). Makes me think 1-of Jace might be worth it, or a Keranos, God of Storms perhaps. If the game is going to go long, having a 4cmc+ bomb to close it out quickly is nice.

    Vendilion Clique seems decent for allowing a peek at their hand to set up Therapy.
    Pyroclasm might be more versatile than Massacre in the SB, but more difficult to resolve through soft counters and can be BEB'd. I'm thinking Elves here.

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