Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 55

Thread: The Dragonstorm

  1. #1
    WTP's Choice
    CabalTherapy's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    660

    The Dragonstorm

    The Dragonstorm


    1. Introduction
    It's time to present an old deck in a new suite. Prepare yourself for: The Dragonstorm. Since I like all Storm spells I felt that it's time to give Dragonstorm its own thread on the source. I haven't checked if there is already a thread on this topic but I would assume that there isn't. You may ask: Why Dragonstorm? It's simple: It's fun. It is of course not the best deck and one might pick up every other deck instead with good reasons but this deck can slam Bogardan Hellkite into play. And that is just awesome. I've been brewing this deck for some time now and I would like to thank Sawatarix Kai for his input and the local players for their cheering. In fact, I played this deck only once in a real tournament but that will change in the near future, I hope. Also, I would like to call this deck "The" Dragonstorm because the determiner makes the name sound more important and definite. Let's get to the real business. Note please: I am not the creator of this deck but of this particular list. Dragonstorm was a Standard deck and I am sure that there were already some Legacy approaches to it.

    2. The Aim
    The aim is to play Dragonstorm with 3 spells prior to it and ideally with 4 Borgardan Hellkites in the library. That's it. No other route available or needed. This will be explained in the section below.

    3. Card Choices
    The following sections is subject to change and the choices/explanations are the outcome of my testing/brewing and are of course debatable. I would like to invite everyone who wants to give feedback and share ideas to join the discussion. This is only one approach trying to make Dragonstorm playble and there are certainly several other ways. Now, here are my thoughts:

    Win condition:
    4 Bogardan Hellkite
    4 Dragonstorm
    One may argue that Burning Wish and Lion's Eye Diamond would help finding a SB Dragonstorm but tests have shown the opposite. This deck doesn't want to go all-in and wants to play some spells followed up by a Dragonstorm from hand. This on the other hand leaves room for counterspells to protect the combo. Furthermore, only Bogardans because they don't demand an attack step which Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund does. No Wish means also no Empty the Warrens.

    Cantrips
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 See Beyond
    2 Preordain
    No need to talk about the first two but I guess there has to be a brief explanation concerning See Beyond. This card is essentially the best cantrip in The Dragonstorm because it shuffles Bogardan Hellkites back into the library which is needed in order to be able to storm for lethal. In comparison to Lat-Nam's Legacy, you get the cards imediately, whereas the order of the effects speaks in See Beyond's favour. I think that there is no space for Dig Through Time here because this deck wants to play Cabal Rituals. Nonetheless, I could image switching the Rituals for weaker ones and play the Dig.

    Mana
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Seething Song
    3 Cabal Ritual
    Dark Ritual should be a clear case and Seething Song also looks pretty good. Cabal Ritual should ensure a strong mid/lategame with enough Mana to actually cast Dragonstorm almost solely off 2 Cabal Rituals and 1 red mana. No Petals and no Moxen because they are too weak for this deck by generating only +1 mana.

    Protection
    2 Duress
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Flusterstorm
    Looks a bit random but I think that this should be enough to protect The Dragonstorm. Because we don't play LED, Flusterstorm becomes a valid option to counter opponents counterspells or other stuff. Spell Pierce is also a solid choice. 4 discard effects are enough because we don't go all-in and casting the stormspell from hand is superior to searching for it via Infernal or Wish.

    I figured out that 18 lands is a ok amount to start with, so these are the terrains of choice:
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Taiga
    1 Badlands
    2 Ancient Tomb
    2 Scalding Tarn
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    Now that looks spicey. A wide range of random duals which will definatly confuse opponents. The green splash is necessary for the SB cards.

    Thus, 18+39 isn't 60. There are three slots on which I cannot decide. Possible cards are (among others):
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Lim-Dul's Vault
    Fire/Ice
    Izzet Charm
    Pyroclasm
    Forked Bolt
    Preordain
    They are look juicy and at the moment I would go with 1 Top, 1 Izzet Charm and 1 Fire/Ice.

    4. Sideboard
    The Dragonstorm can play essentially every card ANT plays in the board but some are weaker and some better. I would suggest running something like this:
    3 Chain of Vapor
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Defense Grid
    3 Pyroclasm
    3 Pyroblast
    Other good stuff would be:
    City of Solitude
    Xantid Swarm
    Extirpate
    Spell Pierce
    Dispel


    I hope that I can find some people who actually want to play this. Don't take it too serious, but it is a deck and it can win. MUs, other card choices, decklists and whathaveyou will be edited if this thread finds a discussion/comments. Have fun.

    5. Ideas/Different Approaches

    -Asthereal has suggested some nice lands:
    4 Sandstone Needle
    4 Dwarven Ruins
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Crystal Vein

    ...and this as the kill package:
    2 Thundermaw Hellkite
    1 Bogardan Hellkite
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund

    -Darkenslight has proposed a slightly Belcheresque approach.

    -( nameless one ) a Stompy strategy

    - Scourge of Valkas was stated by Zupponn as a replacement for one Bogardan

    -Togores has suggested Silence as a possible protection strategy.
    Last edited by CabalTherapy; 01-07-2015 at 06:24 AM.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  2. #2

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    So what are the reasons to play this over ANT, TES, or Elves?

  3. #3
    WTP's Choice
    CabalTherapy's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    660

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    So what are the reasons to play this over ANT, TES, or Elves?
    Bogardain Hellkite. Because he can't be decayed.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  4. #4
    Member
    meffeo's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2013
    Location

    Berlin
    Posts

    218

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    So what are the reasons to play this over ANT, TES, or Elves?
    Because slamming multiple fkin 5/5 flying Dragons on the table is way better then developing a little green army of little green men.
    TEAM MtG Berlin


    "Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    So dismissive.
    Quote Originally Posted by danyul View Post
    This thread is great. I've been able to save so much money on seasoning! Whenever I'm eating something bland, I just wander over here to borrow some of the infinite salt.

  5. #5
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Jul 2011
    Location

    Maastricht, NL
    Posts

    935

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    LOL I have been toying with this idea forever.
    Never got it to actually work well though...

    My last version took a completely different approach.
    Mono red with castable Dragons like Thundermaw Hellkite.
    Also lots of mana lands. At one point I played these lands:
    4 Sandstone Needle
    4 Dwarven Ruins
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Crystal Vein

    And protection in the form of Defense Grid and stuff like that.
    Pretty awesome, and not that terrible actually. Also not good enough though.

  6. #6
    WTP's Choice
    CabalTherapy's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    660

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    LOL I have been toying with this idea forever.
    Never got it to actually work well though...

    My last version took a completely different approach.
    Mono red with castable Dragons like Thundermaw Hellkite.
    Also lots of mana lands. At one point I played these lands:
    4 Sandstone Needle
    4 Dwarven Ruins
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Crystal Vein

    And protection in the form of Defense Grid and stuff like that.
    Pretty awesome, and not that terrible actually. Also not good enough though.
    I like those sollands but unfortuately I see the need to play blue for some drawactions.
    In my test games I have realized that the weakest point of the deck is its protection. When going off on turn 4/5 or whatever,
    one lonely Duress isn't enough and skillful players counter the Rituals. = Flusterstorm may be decent
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  7. #7

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Red has to be the core of the deck, none of this Grixis bullshit.

    But on a more serious note, I'd be considering an Rbg list designed to be more like Belcher combo, then you can actually play a ridiculous SB of:

    4 Kokusho, the Evening Star
    4 Goblin Charbelcher
    4 Murderous Cut
    3 Empty the Warrens

    And troll your way to the top. The reason you move to Kokusho in games 2 and 3 is that Kokusho ignores Leyline of Sanctity completely.

    I'd also consider moving to a manabase closer to the ANT-style (lots of IMS, some comedy gold, and breaking people's brains).

  8. #8
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    GTA, Ontario
    Posts

    2,909

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Would it be possible to have a "Stompy" sideboard. Kinda like the All In Red decks from old extended?
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  9. #9
    WTP's Choice
    CabalTherapy's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    660

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    Would it be possible to have a "Stompy" sideboard. Kinda like the All In Red decks from old extended?
    Not sure how they ve looked like.
    Do you mean different Sphere effects?

    I also thought about something like: Trinisphere, Chalice, Grim Monolith and Seething Song. But it is too much drawstep dependent.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  10. #10
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Jul 2011
    Location

    Maastricht, NL
    Posts

    935

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    I like those sollands but unfortuately I see the need to play blue for some drawactions.
    In my test games I have realized that the weakest point of the deck is its protection. When going off on turn 4/5 or whatever,
    one lonely Duress isn't enough and skillful players counter the Rituals. = Flusterstorm may be decent
    I have tried several three colour versions, and they never really worked.
    You need too many different things:
    - LOTS of mana
    - A Dragonstorm
    - Protection against counterspells
    - Not to die before you get the above three things going
    I never got this to work. Hardly surprising though.

    The list that worked best for me was a mono-red one.
    The option of hardcasting dragons is surprisingly strong.
    The Vein and Ruins lands were of course bad, but cool nonetheless.
    You could try something like this:

    FTW:
    4 Dragonstorm
    4 Thundermaw Hellkite
    4 Stormbreath Dragon
    3 Bogardan Hellkite /15

    Protection:
    4 Defense Grid
    3 Trinisphere /7

    Accelleration:
    4 Grim Monolith
    2 Basalt Monolith
    3 Mox Diamond
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Seething Song /17

    Lands:
    4 Sandstone Needle
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    9 Mountain /21

    But it's probably objectively just better to play without the fancy Storm spell and just add Inferno Titans and Wurmcoil Engines. This also allows us to play better accelleration cards than these.

  11. #11
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    GTA, Ontario
    Posts

    2,909

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    Not sure how they ve looked like.
    Do you mean different Sphere effects?

    I also thought about something like: Trinisphere, Chalice, Grim Monolith and Seething Song. But it is too much drawstep dependent.
    Yes, something like this. Possibly a playstyle similar to Big Wildfire decks postboard.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  12. #12
    Member

    Join Date

    Jul 2013
    Location

    Rhode Island
    Posts

    197

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    >sees dragonstorm thread
    >mfw no blue for cantrips or transmuting Grozoth

    Seriously guys...not playing blue here is kind of a shame. Free storm counts and it draws you into gas.

    I do like playing the big red mana and lock pieces like Trinisphere. But then the deck turns into a bad MRSA build without its namesake cards like Sneak attack and through the breach.

    One major benefit I see this deck having over other Storm decks is that unlike TES or Belcher is that it requires a minimum of 3 spells to be lethal, as apposed to 10 or 5 and a turn. We also can't get decayed, which is a major upgrade.

    Burning wish for Dragonstorm is good! We could also Wish for Empty in a pinch. Running Grixis let's wish for Treasure Cruise once Threshold is hit for more Storm and mana, so Grixis is pretty attractive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    To be fair, you're supposed to build a sizable pyre underneath it and light it with an arrow from afar.

  13. #13
    It's not easy being green

    Join Date

    Jul 2010
    Posts

    1,541

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by meffeo View Post
    Because slamming multiple fkin 5/5 flying Dragons on the table is way better then developing a little green army of little green men.
    You mean these tramply 7/7's coming for your head turn 3?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  14. #14
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    6,619

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Redkid43 View Post
    >sees dragonstorm thread
    >mfw no blue for cantrips or transmuting Grozoth

    Seriously guys...not playing blue here is kind of a shame. Free storm counts and it draws you into gas.

    I do like playing the big red mana and lock pieces like Trinisphere. But then the deck turns into a bad MRSA build without its namesake cards like Sneak attack and through the breach.

    One major benefit I see this deck having over other Storm decks is that unlike TES or Belcher is that it requires a minimum of 3 spells to be lethal, as apposed to 10 or 5 and a turn. We also can't get decayed, which is a major upgrade.

    Burning wish for Dragonstorm is good! We could also Wish for Empty in a pinch. Running Grixis let's wish for Treasure Cruise once Threshold is hit for more Storm and mana, so Grixis is pretty attractive.
    You have to look at Sneak Show of you want adequate gameplan comparison and not at Storm. It's 3 or 5 mana to cheat 1 creature with redundant parts or several Dragons for 8.
    www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!

    Join us at Facebook!
    Finally on Twitter! @ValeLemnear

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  15. #15
    WTP's Choice
    CabalTherapy's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    660

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    I still think that the best plan is to play cantrips and cast Dragonstrom from hand.
    EtW is simply too weak because this deck does not want to run Petals/Mox/Rite of Flame (best among them) because it needs
    powerful rituals to achieve cc9. For example, G.Probe isn't on board because it only draws one card, whereas See Beyond is simply more effective.

    It isn't that difficult to find a Dragonstorm with 14 cantrips; it's pretty much like ANT.

    But I will add the ideas to the first post.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  16. #16
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    2,374

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    If you're playing black, is Kokusho an option as additional copies of hellkite? The legend rule doesn't work the same anymore but I thinknit wouldn't be too hard to work. If a hellkite is in hand you could still get a dragonstorm for six and do three hellkite/three kokusho for 20.
    Approaching transcendence
    I see clarity through deprivation

    -Suffocation-

  17. #17
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    6,619

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    If you're playing black, is Kokusho an option as additional copies of hellkite? The legend rule doesn't work the same anymore but I thinknit wouldn't be too hard to work. If a hellkite is in hand you could still get a dragonstorm for six and do three hellkite/three kokusho for 20.
    Why? If you can only search for 3 Hellkites, that's 15 damage and you attack for another 15 the next turn and win. I don't see a reason to cluttter more spots in the deck with creatures than needed. Kokusho is iffy to Tutor and attack with because of the Legend rule and Plows
    www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!

    Join us at Facebook!
    Finally on Twitter! @ValeLemnear

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  18. #18
    Member

    Join Date

    Jul 2013
    Location

    Rhode Island
    Posts

    197

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    I believe the correct sequence for Dragonstorm for 3 is 2 Hellkites and Karrthas for 27 damage.

    Real quick sketch:

    4 Bogarden Hellkite
    1 Karrthas, Tyrant of Jund
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Seething Song
    4 Ponder
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    3 Dragonstorm
    4 Burning Wish
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    To be fair, you're supposed to build a sizable pyre underneath it and light it with an arrow from afar.

  19. #19
    WTP's Choice
    CabalTherapy's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    660

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Redkid43 View Post
    I believe the correct sequence for Dragonstorm for 3 is 2 Hellkites and Karrthas for 27 damage.

    Real quick sketch:

    4 Bogarden Hellkite
    1 Karrthas, Tyrant of Jund
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Seething Song
    4 Ponder
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    3 Dragonstorm
    4 Burning Wish
    But why wasting another slot on a useless Dragon?
    Also, I really dislike Burning Wish here and I would recommend everyone to test it before posting lists with the Wish as an auto-include.
    Why no See Beyond?
    It is painful to play Dragonstrom via Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame and Seething Song. This deck needs the big bad black rituals.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

  20. #20
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Jul 2011
    Location

    Maastricht, NL
    Posts

    935

    Re: The Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    But why wasting another slot on a useless Dragon?
    Actually, if you run Karrthus, you can cut a useless Bogardan Hellkite.
    Note that Karrthus + 2x Hellkite is better than 3x Hellkite.
    Actually, it might be optimal, if you run the lowest amount of Dragons, to run:
    1x Bogardan Hellkite, 1x Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund, 1x Thundermaw Hellkite.
    This taps all opposing flyers, and does 22 damage the turn you go off.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)