On Blue

[testing32]

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29799_On-Blue.html

About time.

[CabalTherapy]

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29799_On-Blue.html

About time.

Vague and propagandistic.
It is simply faulty to catagorize cards concerning their colours. Colour as a concept shouldn't matter at all.
Banning BS would hurt the format at its essential core. I hope that this won't happen.

It is like: "Hey dude, wanna see my blue Water deck? I guess, you cannot beat me with that shitty Fire pile of yours!"


"I'm done trying to "beat the blue decks" with Abzan hate decks and am throwing in the towel and just joining team Brainstorm + Lightning Bolt."
Sure, follow the mainstream and play Delver.

[Lemnear]

A classic DeMars article. Founded like Tom LaPille's B&R explanations

[CabalTherapy]

A classic DeMars article. Founded like Tom LaPille's B&R explanations

Wait a second, I have found something hilarious:

"Firstly, Jeskai Stoneblade, U/R Delver, Infect, Sneak and Show, and Deathblade are the best decks in the format by a pretty wide margin."
That has to be a joke, right?

[testing32]

Wait a second, I have found something hilarious:

"Firstly, Jeskai Stoneblade, U/R Delver, Infect, Sneak and Show, and Deathblade are the best decks in the format by a pretty wide margin."
That has to be a joke, right?

Yeah.... I'm not sure about that list but I agree with the sentiment. My list would be UWR Stoneblade, Delver and Miracles.

Edit: so, the decks that can run the blue shell + maindeck REBs

[Julian23]

"Firstly, Jeskai Stoneblade, U/R Delver, Infect, Sneak and Show, and Deathblade are the best decks in the format by a pretty wide margin."
That has to be a joke, right?

Him not mentioning Miracles, which has been the best deck for most of 2014 and still is, really makes me wonder.

[Vicar in a tutu]

It is simply faulty to catagorize cards concerning their colours. Colour as a concept shouldn't matter at all.

Why not?

[Vicar in a tutu]

Him not mentioning Miracles, which has been the best deck for most of 2014 and still is, really makes me wonder.

Maybe he should have mentioned Miracles instead of Deathblade.

[Julian23]

Why not?

Because it's just as random of a method as categorizing by odd or even set numbers. We're talking about enjoying competitive Legacy, which is based on the viability of all major archetypes; not some "I want to be a red mage!" kitchen table desires.

[CabalTherapy]

Him not mentioning Miracles, which has been the best deck for most of 2014 and still is, really makes me wonder.

Certainly, a vast mistake.

Why not?

Where are the benefits of such thinking? I shouldn't answer your question, you should rather explain this thinking which supports the notions of W,U,G,R,B as seperate figures of MTG.
I don't evaluate cards concerning their colour but in respect to their functionality in a respective deck.
It's not about colours. One might argue that some people have a "colour identity" which makes them hate on "blue". These are clearly casual MTG features.



Edit: Thank you, Julian.
Edit2: I think that GPNJ has displayed a healthy meta.

[M+1]

There is no way shape or form that anybody can argue and convince me of the health of a format where it is correct and necessary to be maindecking Red Elemental Blast in multiples. It means one thing: the color blue is too good in Legacy and there isn't room for other decks to realistically compete.

That is a terrible argument. I see maindeck Pyroblast as a sign of a healthy, dynamic, self-balancing format. In short, I love it.
Death and Taxes just took down a SCG Open, but I guess that had to be pure luck, and not because the deck can realistically compete. Nice Pyroblasts.
Meanwhile, Blighted Agent is suffering heavy splash damage. As is Delver (the card).

[Asthereal]

Blue is so strong!
Blue is played so much!
Brainstorm is too good!
Boohoo! Ban Brainstorm!
*sigh*

Want a healthier format?
Banning Brainstorm will do nothing at all. It will just be replaced by Preordain.
Instead try banning the following:

1. Delver of Secrets - which idiot prints the best fast attacker in blue? Really?
2. Treasure Cruise - blue is played too much, let's print a functional reprint of Ancestral Recall?
3. True-Name Nemesis - stupid card to begin with, blue creatures should suck.
4. Sensei's Divining Top - stalling device, we don't need that in Legacy.

You're welcome.

[Vicar in a tutu]

Because it's just as random of a method as categorizing by odd or even set numbers. We're talking about enjoying competitive Legacy, which is based on the viability of all major archetypes; not some "I want to be a red mage!" kitchen table desires.

I would say the five colours of magic are far more important and integral than measuring set numbers. But of course, you could instead count Delvers, Ponders and Brainstorms. Are there numbers for day 2 of GP New Jersey, the most commonly played cards? Not just in top 32, but all the decks that made it to day 2.

[Vicar in a tutu]

Where are the benefits of such thinking? I shouldn't answer your question, you should rather explain this thinking which supports the notions of W,U,G,R,B as seperate figures of MTG.
I don't evaluate cards concerning their colour but in respect to their functionality in a respective deck.
It's not about colours. One might argue that some people have a "colour identity" which makes them hate on "blue". These are clearly casual MTG features.

This is fair. In truth, I miss playing against more types of decks. I play against Delver decks over and over and over. The different decks could of course be U/x/x, as long as they feel different from Delver deck X or Stoneforge deck Y. Like I've mentioned before, I strongly feel Wizards should print powerful new cards for certain decks (for example Enchantress, Goblins). I've felt like this for a long time, as I'm sure other people have as well. Instead we get True-Name Nemesis and Treasure Cruise. Theros didn't have a single good enchantment in it (enchantment creatures excluded), and I wish Spirit of the Labyrinth was 2/1 flash. Maybe that would have made it too powerful, but there is nothing stopping wizards from printing stronger, instant speed draw-hate in special products.

[Gheizen64]

The format is becoming Vintage 2.0, where 30+ cards on your list have to be the same just because of how much better than the rest of the format they are, basically a circlejerk format for blue mages. In the meanwhile, cards much weaker than brainstorm are still on the banned list, but this is all good for WotC because the format becoming as degenerate as possible is good for modern popularity. Printing TC was probably their way to say "fuck eternal formats"

[Gheizen64]

Blue is so strong!
Blue is played so much!
Brainstorm is too good!
Boohoo! Ban Brainstorm!
*sigh*

Want a healthier format?
Banning Brainstorm will do nothing at all. It will just be replaced by Preordain.
Instead try banning the following:

1. Delver of Secrets - which idiot prints the best fast attacker in blue? Really?
2. Treasure Cruise - blue is played too much, let's print a functional reprint of Ancestral Recall?
3. True-Name Nemesis - stupid card to begin with, blue creatures should suck.
4. Sensei's Divining Top - stalling device, we don't need that in Legacy.

You're welcome.

A broken card replaced by a fair card would do nothing? Well, it would empower black discard by a lot, weaken miracle and delvers by a lot, and weaken blue-based combo too. Literally NOTHING

[Lemnear]

A broken card replaced by a fair card would do nothing? Well, it would empower black discard by a lot, weaken miracle and delvers by a lot, and weaken blue-based combo too. Literally NOTHING

It would do damage to blue-based combo and hurt Delver/Blade-strategies for sure. Would it break the dominance of blue cantrips + fetchlands? No way. All you gain with Brainstorms banning is streamlining decks and 3 rant-free months beforw the bitching about "Ponder/Preordain/SDT + Fetches is so oppressive!" starts again.


Edit: this pattern repeated to damn many times, that I'm just sick of it:

"Ban Survival! It just trumps Zoo and Goblins as a creature strategy! It's overpowered"
"Ban Misstep! It just invalidates our key spells Nacatl, Goblin Lackey and Aether Vial! It's overpowered"
"Ban Show & Tell! The creatures put into play just trump the regular T1/2 creatures!"
"Ban LED! Storm combo just trumps aggressive creature strategies and we don't want to mainboard "narrow" creatures like Thalia or Teeg!"
"Ban SDT! It's jsed for stalling and to setup overpowered sweepers which just trump linear creature aggro strategies!"
"Ban Brainstorm! It's unfair that blue has the best card selection! Green should have those ... and echantment/artifact removal ... and efficient threats!"

[Vicar in a tutu]

It would do damage to blue-based combo and hurt Delver/Blade-strategies for sure. Would it break the dominance of blue cantrips + fetchlands? No way. All you gain with Brainstorms banning is streamlining decks and 3 rant-free months beforw the bitching about "Ponder/Preordain/SDT + Fetches is so oppressive!" starts again.

The point wouldn't necessarily be to break blue's dominance, but weaken it slightly.

[Dice_Box]

That read like a post in the B/R thread.

[CabalTherapy]

A broken card replaced by a fair card would do nothing? Well, it would empower black discard by a lot, weaken miracle and delvers by a lot, and weaken blue-based combo too. Literally NOTHING

I see, I see.
The argument of basically all "rage against the BS" posts is to weaken other decks and make a petdeck playable again.
Dude, try to innovate the format. You've got all the tools for that. Play another deck or be mad and post in this forum.


Banning BS would make the format less skill-intense which might show parallels to the people favouring a ban.

I'm out of the format related discussions because they give me headaches due to the low-level of arguments and evident discrepancies in experience
and understanding of the format. I am still supporting the thesis that only a severely small amount of the players understands the format in its unity. (Doesn't mean
understand each deck and simple stuff like that. Just to make it clear.)

See you, in the established decks forum.