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Thread: Braids Stax

  1. #201

    Re: Braids Stax

    Fair points. Whatabout a green splash? Specifically, I am thinking of the addition of Tireless Tracker. Now, I can see the argument of adding a color reduces stability in the face of wasteland or blood moon, but we are already very weak to both of those. There must also be games where our lock pieces are countered or destroyed somehow, but a Tracker sticks around. A Tracker + a Chalice is very powerful as our Tracker will likely be more powerful than many creatures and dig us to our next lock pieces faster than they get to their piece of interaction. If we have to Deluge, there's at least some chance that Tracker is big enough to survive it. And, Sylvan Library could be played somewhere in the 75, if we need.

    Other than those two cards, I can't think of anything I'd realllyyy want off the top of my head. I prefer Crucible to Life From the Loam.

  2. #202

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss View Post
    Fair points. Whatabout a green splash? Specifically, I am thinking of the addition of Tireless Tracker. Now, I can see the argument of adding a color reduces stability in the face of wasteland or blood moon, but we are already very weak to both of those. There must also be games where our lock pieces are countered or destroyed somehow, but a Tracker sticks around. A Tracker + a Chalice is very powerful as our Tracker will likely be more powerful than many creatures and dig us to our next lock pieces faster than they get to their piece of interaction. If we have to Deluge, there's at least some chance that Tracker is big enough to survive it. And, Sylvan Library could be played somewhere in the 75, if we need.

    Other than those two cards, I can't think of anything I'd realllyyy want off the top of my head. I prefer Crucible to Life From the Loam.
    To argue against myself, I suppose that Ophiomancer triggers next upkeep no matter what.

  3. #203
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss View Post
    To argue against myself, I suppose that Ophiomancer triggers next upkeep no matter what.
    Yes, Ophiomancer still triggers whether there's a snake in play or not. However, you can still stack the triggers where you sack the token to Smokestack, then immediately make another one.
    Fun is a zero-sum game in Magic. Therefore, Prison is the best archetype.

  4. #204

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard View Post
    Yes, Ophiomancer still triggers whether there's a snake in play or not. However, you can still stack the triggers where you sack the token to Smokestack, then immediately make another one.
    This is incorrect. If you have a snake in play at start of upkeep, then Ophiomancer's ability never goes on the stack. You can't sac a snake and then still get another replacement on the same turn, have to wait until opponent's upkeep to get a new one.

    "Ophiomancer’s ability checks if you control a Snake at the beginning of each upkeep. If you do, the ability won’t trigger."

    It's still a great card, but a bit less so now that goyf isn't the premier threat to be blocking. It's really the combination of Ophio/land recursion/deck full of permanents that makes the stax effects work and be able to tickup.

    I've tried adding a second color but it severely hampers the manabase. You could try going with less/no caverns since Miracles is no longer in force, but you'll find yourself needing to resolve Braids and Ophio against stuff like Daze and will be wanting them back I imagine.

  5. #205

    Re: Braids Stax

    What about just straight Black Human Stax?

    // Black Stompy


    // 60 Maindeck
    // 15 Artifact
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Smokestack
    4 Chrome Mox

    // 18 Creature
    4 Braids, Cabal Minion
    4 Ophiomancer
    4 Mardu Strike Leader
    4 Priest of Gix
    2 Graveborn Muse

    // 8 Enchantment
    4 Contamination
    4 Bitterblossom

    // 19 Land
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    6 Swamp
    4 Cavern of Souls

    // 15 Sideboard
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    2 Engineered Plague
    2 Massacre
    1 Unmask


    Priest of Gix is the weakest link here, but not sure what to replace it with. I think Xathrid Necromancer is better, even Doomed Dissenter.
    yeah I'll replace it with 4x Necromancer for sure. Also, I suppose a couple Trading Post could fit in there.

  6. #206

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by R3ndr0c View Post
    What about just straight Black Human Stax?

    // Black Stompy


    // 60 Maindeck
    // 15 Artifact
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Smokestack
    4 Chrome Mox

    // 18 Creature
    4 Braids, Cabal Minion
    4 Ophiomancer
    4 Mardu Strike Leader
    4 Priest of Gix
    2 Graveborn Muse

    // 8 Enchantment
    4 Contamination
    4 Bitterblossom

    // 19 Land
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    6 Swamp
    4 Cavern of Souls

    // 15 Sideboard
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    2 Engineered Plague
    2 Massacre
    1 Unmask


    Priest of Gix is the weakest link here, but not sure what to replace it with. I think Xathrid Necromancer is better, even Doomed Dissenter.
    yeah I'll replace it with 4x Necromancer for sure. Also, I suppose a couple Trading Post could fit in there.
    Can certainly try it. Not sure why you don't just go with Bob for card draw though, guy's a human. I have an earlier post in this thread that outlined some experience trying out 3-4 Strike Leader and a playset of bobs. Jittes were used to suppliment the life loss. It really ravaged miracles back in the day, but I'm not sure how it would line up now. After playing at Eternal Weekend with Trading Posts, I'd be really hesistant to forego them, they are extremely versatile and I was always happy to draw one. So if you can find a way to include them (and not have too many other 4-drops), then great.

  7. #207

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    Can certainly try it. Not sure why you don't just go with Bob for card draw though, guy's a human. I have an earlier post in this thread that outlined some experience trying out 3-4 Strike Leader and a playset of bobs. Jittes were used to suppliment the life loss. It really ravaged miracles back in the day, but I'm not sure how it would line up now. After playing at Eternal Weekend with Trading Posts, I'd be really hesistant to forego them, they are extremely versatile and I was always happy to draw one. So if you can find a way to include them (and not have too many other 4-drops), then great.
    The deck already has enough lifeless, and Bob is not good in decks with high CMC cards, for card draw I've used a couple copies of Graveborn Muse but I recently removed it... for now.
    Bottled Cloister would be better than Bob too. Bob is uncounterable, but still not worth it.

    I've added Xanthrid Necro and yes I also added Trading Post, since it's very useful in the deck.

    I played only 2 matches recently vs. 4c Leo and Eldrazi Stompy and I won both.

    Here's the updated list:

    // Black Stompy

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 17 Artifact
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Smokestack
    4 Chrome Mox
    2 Trading Post

    // 16 Creature
    4 Braids, Cabal Minion
    4 Ophiomancer
    4 Mardu Strike Leader
    4 Xathrid Necromancer

    // 8 Enchantment
    4 Contamination
    4 Bitterblossom

    // 19 Land
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    7 Swamp
    4 Cavern of Souls

    // 15 Sideboard
    SB: 2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
    SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    SB: 1 Engineered Plague
    SB: 1 Virtue's Ruin
    SB: 1 Unmask


    Contamination is what I like more about this deck. It's the black Blood Moon and many times Contamination is strictly better than Blood Moon in this deck. This deck can lock opponents out of the game so easily.

    I'm looking forward to playing and tuning it more.

    Any suggestions welcome, I'm not convinced my sideboard is correct.
    Last edited by R3ndr0c; 02-10-2018 at 10:34 PM.

  8. #208
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    Re: Braids Stax

    How do you guys feel dropping the Ensnaring Bridges?

  9. #209
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by R3ndr0c View Post
    The deck already has enough lifeless, and Bob is not good in decks with high CMC cards, for card draw I've used a couple copies of Graveborn Muse but I recently removed it... for now.
    Bottled Cloister would be better than Bob too. Bob is uncounterable, but still not worth it.

    I've added Xanthrid Necro and yes I also added Trading Post, since it's very useful in the deck.

    I played only 2 matches recently vs. 4c Leo and Eldrazi Stompy and I won both.

    Here's the updated list:

    // Black Stompy

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 17 Artifact
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Smokestack
    4 Chrome Mox
    2 Trading Post

    // 16 Creature
    4 Braids, Cabal Minion
    4 Ophiomancer
    4 Mardu Strike Leader
    4 Xathrid Necromancer

    // 8 Enchantment
    4 Contamination
    4 Bitterblossom

    // 19 Land
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    7 Swamp
    4 Cavern of Souls

    // 15 Sideboard
    SB: 2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
    SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    SB: 1 Engineered Plague
    SB: 1 Virtue's Ruin
    SB: 1 Unmask


    Contamination is what I like more about this deck. It's the black Blood Moon and many times Contamination is strictly better than Blood Moon in this deck. This deck can lock opponents out of the game so easily.

    I'm looking forward to playing and tuning it more.

    Any suggestions welcome, I'm not convinced my sideboard is correct.

    Strong Considerations:
    Liliana of the Veil
    Is 4x Helm really necessary in the sideboard? what about Lilly?
    how does Contamination work with Cavern and Tomb? Am I right thinking I wouldnt take 2 damage from Tomb but also would also lose the uncounterability of Cavern? I like your version.

    EDIT Nevermind. Googled it and found out Contamination only changes amount and color of mana lands are producing. So Tomb still hurts but for B, and Cavern makes B with uncounterability (if thats even a word)
    Last edited by AmokPL; 02-10-2018 at 07:08 AM.

  10. #210

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by AmokPL View Post
    how does Contamination work with Cavern and Tomb? Am I right thinking I wouldnt take 2 damage from Tomb but also would also lose the uncounterability of Cavern? I like your version.

    EDIT Nevermind. Googled it and found out Contamination only changes amount and color of mana lands are producing. So Tomb still hurts but for B, and Cavern makes B with uncounterability (if thats even a word)
    Can you provide a link?

  11. #211
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by R3ndr0c View Post
    Can you provide a link?
    All I could find was this:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...contamination/

  12. #212

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by AmokPL View Post
    It's definitely a strange a unique card so it's hard to find clear answers. I couldn't find anything helpful googling it myself.

    It's a replacement effect it seems, that only changes color and amount of mana, as it clearly states. It does not replace the entire ability.

  13. #213
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss View Post
    Fair points. Whatabout a green splash? Specifically, I am thinking of the addition of Tireless Tracker.
    the "sacrifice" requirement of smokestack will trigger the clue that a tracker makes so you do not draw a card but do put a +1/+1 on the tracker.

    i played a similar list last year and like it enough to try this again but i'd squeeze in a crucible of worlds and a mutavault (human interaction)...


    EDIT: If you sacrifice a Clue for another card’s cost or effect, such as that of Angelic Purge or Tamiyo’s Journal, you can’t also pay 2 and sacrifice it to draw a card.
    Last edited by non-inflammable; 02-11-2018 at 11:05 PM.

  14. #214

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    the "sacrifice" requirement of smokestack will trigger the clue that a tracker makes so you still draw a card and put a +1/+1 on the tracker.

    i played a similar list last year and like it enough to try this again but i'd squeeze in a crucible of worlds and a mutavault (human interaction)...
    Tracker's ability triggers whenever you sacrifice a clue. So it could get a +1/+1. But the draw comes from an activated ability of the clue. You cannot draw a card by sacrificing a clue to Smokestack.

  15. #215

    Re: Braids Stax

    I'm getting ready for an event in a month and thought I'd dust off the ole stax and update it before looking to other options. kaldheim gave us a fun new toy in Tergrid, God of Fright.
    With tegrid we can more agressively tick up the smokestack. Here is a quick 60 I threw together:

    Creatures
    4 Ophiomancer
    4 Braids, Cabal Minion
    4 Tergrid, God of Fright

    Sorceries
    2 Toxic Deluge

    Artifacts
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Mox Diamond
    3 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Smokestack


    Enchantments
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles

    Lands
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 City of Traitors
    1 Dunes of the Dead
    1 Inventors' Fair
    2 Peat Bog
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Waste Land

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