Ah, nice! I didn't realize who I was playing against, and if I remember correctly, the miracles player seemed to be unusually quick about setting up the Countertop lock. I haven't come across too many Miracles matches online where they get it up so fast. Usually Miracles matches revolve around 1 lock piece (chalice or sphere) plus sac outlet plus stax effect, gg. I may have punted my game 2 (if I'm remembering correctly) by not hammering out a T1 Chalice on 1. I had lands, Chalice, Mox, Braids, Strike Leader in hand I believe, and I did not want to lose either of those pieces. I groaned a bit when he T1 Top. I need to keep in mind that leading with chalice would have protected any other creatures I played from Swords.
I've been thinking about cutting my single Toxic from the main - since I'm so creature heavy it might not be as effective for me. I'd love to experiment with Nether Void (though I also groan at the thought of buying one in paper). I may also drop a land in favor of another lock piece, I seem to be flooding out often...will probably wait until I get more feeling for that.
New card spoiled for SoI.Originally Posted by H
I could see this as a 1 or 2-of for the decks that choose to not run Crucible. I wouldn't mind getting a single stax effect out plus this land while I'm waiting for more action to be drawn. Not sure if the Wasteland/Crucible versions would really need to bother though.
For those of you guys who play the Helm package in the board, what matchups are you bringing it in against? The only one I could think of where I'd really want it is vs Lands / Aggro Loam where the opponent has as many permanents as we do, but they can't really stop Helm.
Anything using the graveyard I think is fairly obvious - Reanimator, Dredge. I side into the combo also against anything where both Trinisphere and Chalice are not very good, like various stompy decks. I usually cut down on Smokestacks (since they take an extra turn to get going), Jittes, and couple of token makers (like Bitterblossom) if I'm up against Storm. I want to be as quickly disruptive as possible and Smokestacks is a tad slow there. Sneak n Show I also try to put the combo in, since it ups our speed and Trinisphere isn't as hot here. I want to live the dream and put in Helm off of a Show and Tell and win that way - came very close to doing that last night
But yes, Lands and Loam are good for the combo, plus you don't want to just die to recurring Wastelands.
I have been very hesitant to side it in against regular blue decks like Delver, Shardless, etc. I might put in a few Leyline of the Void if they seem very heavy on Goyfs and Gurmag Angler etc. Most blue decks I just try to grind out. Although the combo is tempting most of the time
I enjoy hearing others' thoughts though.
Personally I used to board it in against Loam decks and other Graveyard dependant decks like Reanimator or Dredge. But over the time I got used to board it in against anything not packing blue. It's great in grindy Stax mirrors since it can give you a kill out of nowhere, and also against things like Goblins which is also a poor matchup. I don't bring it in vs DnT due to Revokers and Maverick because of the tutorable Qasali.
Helms on their own are a beast against Sneak and Show >:)
Also against things like Eldrazi where you already have a favorable matchup, you can side in 4 Chalice and 4 Trinis for the whole combo package, because they'll do more than the lockpieces.
Currently I'm getting my laptop fixed and I'm writing from an old spare netbook, but when I get my gear back I'll probably update the Primer and do a Matchup-Guide.
I've always been a fan of course that can recourse themselves and Drownyard temple really catches my eye. The only problem is that it requires a full 3 mana to keep feeding it (Crucible and Ophio are free, T. Post costs only 1) and DRS can interact pretty easily with it.
Tell us how did you do!
Sundial of the infinite is indeed a sweet card, but the main problem I find with that card is that it works well only with Smokestack (Braids is quicker but can't multiply itself like smokey does), and has zero synergy with the rest of the deck. Also in an actual tournament environment Sundial is way too slow to win a game, let alone a match. And against Emrakul decks where they can't mill themselves the card is dead. Also it doesn't work with Mox Diamond, because of the errata it has: If you don't discard a card, Mox won't even enter the battlefield
Super Games Inc. screwed up my order. The deck didn't make it for the tourney. =(
Sorry to hear that Darkgh0st :(
I'll try to update the OP tomorrow, and maybe write a matchup guide.
Primer updated
Apparently someone named Jeff Chen ran Braids Stax in the a GPT. If someone can contact him fir him to tell us his experience, that would be great!
Here is his deck:
http://asgardgames.net/category/magic-the-gathering/
I like the try to run as many Lilianas as possible even if Trading Post is easier to cast. The 4th Liliana might be a bit overkill and could be better of something a bit more gentle on the mana:
How about:
Artifact
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Crucible of Worlds
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Mox Diamond
3x Smokestack
3x Trinisphere
4x Braids, Cabal Minion
4x Ophiomancer
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
6x Swamp
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland
3x Warping Wail
3x Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
4x Helm of Obedience
4x Leyline of the Void
1x The Abyss
3x Toxic Deluge
1x Trinisphere
1x Warping Wail
This is very basic and I am unsure of how good the Warping Wails are. I played them in Eldrazi and they were always ok, but seldomly great. Here they have the advantage of handling Deathrite Shaman, which is one of the most annoying and devastating creatures if you try to lock your opponent out of the game.
Chalice on 1
Hah that was me. Scrubbed out at 0-2 drop, although I usually do pretty decently at our local Legacy events (usually 12-20 players). I don't know if you looked at the meta, but it was about 15% D&T.
Lost to Burn in r1. Opponent had Fireblast and maindeck Sulfuric Vortex to get through my Trinisphere, Chalice @1 & 2 in g1. I won g2 off of Leyline / Helm. He got G3 off of Smash to Smithereens + PoP.
Lost to D&T in r2. I got g1 with triple Ensnaring Bridge (with plenty of lands to cast anything I drew). Let my opponent know I was going to deck him if he didn't concede the game, so he scooped. G2 I mulled to 4, still almost got there. G3 I was about to lock the game out but he hit every land drop of either plains or Flagstones and had just enough mana to play Mirran Crusader then equip a Batterskull on it. I couldn't find Bridge or Virtue's Ruin in time.
I still love the deck overall and would play it in a large event again, but our meta just has too much D&T right now for me to really feel comfortable unless I pack my board with more hate.
Warping Wail has been amazing for me. As you said, it kills DRS, which is a huge problem creature for us, but also gets Bob and Pyromancer. It makes our combo matchup (which was already good before), even better, and even generates us a permanent in a pinch if we need it!
I tried warping wail but eventually the card didnt convince me. It just felt too reactive for a deck that wants to have proactive disruption. The the sorcery counterspell was its biggest selling point but was in my testing the one i used the most, different try by him with the toxics in the sideboard.
I would probably cut the Warping wails fir the 4th smokestack and 2 trading posts, to better the engine.
Still props to him for trying the deck!
Also jeff did you bord the helm kill vs DNT?
No, I left it out because Thalia + Revoker + their mana disruption makes it tough for us to get down a 4 mana artifact was my reasoning.
I boarded:
-3 Trinisphere
-2 Chalice
+1 Liliana
+1 Warping Wail
+2 Engineered Plague
+1 Virtue's Ruin
I'm not a huge fan of Deluge since we tend to take a lot of damage from getting beat up + Ancient Tombs so I just play a split of Perish / Virtue's Ruin instead.
Hey Jeff, what do you feel is the weakest or least influential card in your take on the deck? Or list a couple of cards if one doesn't stand out.
For example, chalice is great in many matchups so it tends to always be powerful, but maybe lily under performs in some matchups but excels in others?
Hey guys, matchup guide in first page updated
It depends on the matchup for me.
Trinisphere isn't very good against DRS decks or decks that have a lot of lands, especially when you're on the draw, for example.
Crucible and Ophiomancer suck vs combo, etc.
Smokestack can be too slow vs aggressive / creature heavy decks.
Btw, I believe D&T is a poor matchup for us. Any deck that has a lot of permanents like they do is bad because when we are in attrition mode, they can keep up with us (or get ahead with SFM, Aether Vial, Flagstones) in terms of Permanent advantage. Aether Vial also lets them accelerate out more permanents and get around Chalice / Trinisphere. Flickerwisp resets counters on Chalice / Smokestack, lets them alpha in vs Bridge. Thalia / mana disruption hurts us because like any Stompy deck, our lands are fairly fragile.
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