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Thread: Braids Stax

  1. #141
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    It depends on the matchup for me.

    Trinisphere isn't very good against DRS decks or decks that have a lot of lands, especially when you're on the draw, for example.

    Crucible and Ophiomancer suck vs combo, etc.

    Smokestack can be too slow vs aggressive / creature heavy decks.

    Btw, I believe D&T is a poor matchup for us. Any deck that has a lot of permanents like they do is bad because when we are in attrition mode, they can keep up with us (or get ahead with SFM, Aether Vial, Flagstones) in terms of Permanent advantage. Aether Vial also lets them accelerate out more permanents and get around Chalice / Trinisphere. Flickerwisp resets counters on Chalice / Smokestack, lets them alpha in vs Bridge. Thalia / mana disruption hurts us because like any Stompy deck, our lands are fairly fragile.
    I respectfully disagree. At least from what I played DnT is a very manageable matchup, even favorable. TradingPost is amazing against them, and having toxics main help a lot. They have no card advantage whatsoever, so i've been finding quite easy to execute the attrition plan against them.

    I'd gladly play this deck if my meta was infested with DnT.

  2. #142
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by owerbart View Post
    I respectfully disagree. At least from what I played DnT is a very manageable matchup, even favorable. TradingPost is amazing against them, and having toxics main help a lot. They have no card advantage whatsoever, so i've been finding quite easy to execute the attrition plan against them.

    I'd gladly play this deck if my meta was infested with DnT.
    Interesting that you have a very different experience than I do. I'm curious how others have felt in the matchup.

    What about Trading Post do you find so amazing in that matchup? None of the modes really do much against them on top of it being a 4 mana artifact that they can Revoker.

    Maindeck Deluge will be great against them, I agree.

    They actually have some card advantage in the form of SFM (getting to make a Germ every turn to sacrifice), Flagstones to sacrifice, Revokers turning off things like Liliana (or Trading Post), Thalia + mana disruption to shut out our higher cost cards. On top of that, they play almost as many permanents as we do, so each draw they have feeds to sacrificing.

    Braids is even iffy against them since Karakas is horrible if we don't have a Wasteland for it.

  3. #143
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    Interesting that you have a very different experience than I do. I'm curious how others have felt in the matchup.

    What about Trading Post do you find so amazing in that matchup? None of the modes really do much against them on top of it being a 4 mana artifact that they can Revoker.

    Maindeck Deluge will be great against them, I agree.

    They actually have some card advantage in the form of SFM (getting to make a Germ every turn to sacrifice), Flagstones to sacrifice, Revokers turning off things like Liliana (or Trading Post), Thalia + mana disruption to shut out our higher cost cards. On top of that, they play almost as many permanents as we do, so each draw they have feeds to sacrificing.

    Braids is even iffy against them since Karakas is horrible if we don't have a Wasteland for it.
    T. Post plays a jack of all trades kind of game, making chumpblockers, feeding stax or just gaining life. I could see a list with no Toxics main having a harder time, but overall my experience against them was simply to drop bridge, put a stax effect online and just wait till they die. If they are running high on permanents, you can just tick stax higher. Flickerwisp is the only card that you really care about, and the best way I found to play around it is to preemptively deluging their board so they can't alpha strike you. I wrote my notes for the matchup in the first page. The Waste+Port game they play is only good if they have a vial to back it up, and the moment you hit crucible you are going to eventually waste them away.

    And about them playing as many permanents as we do, they will still draw a card (that permanent) for the turn. Which means that if their whole drawstep is nullified by the stax effect, we are in good shape.

  4. #144
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by owerbart View Post
    T. Post plays a jack of all trades kind of game, making chumpblockers, feeding stax or just gaining life.
    I like Liliana way more than Trading Post as she only costs 3. She does make you change your manabase quite a bit, but i think overall she has many upsides like killing creature when you need to, also being relevant against combo and having an ultimate that totally locks the game with any for of Stax effect.

    Sure: I am comparing apples to cars, but I like Liliana more and think somethink like 3 Liliana and 1 Trading Post would be a sensible split.
    Chalice on 1

  5. #145

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by hofzge View Post
    I like Liliana way more than Trading Post as she only costs 3. She does make you change your manabase quite a bit, but i think overall she has many upsides like killing creature when you need to, also being relevant against combo and having an ultimate that totally locks the game with any for of Stax effect.

    Sure: I am comparing apples to cars, but I like Liliana more and think somethink like 3 Liliana and 1 Trading Post would be a sensible split.
    Might be able to shave 1 Ensnaring Bridge for another Trading post, or just have a flex spot. I've grown to appreciate Mardu Strike Leader. The dash can be sneaky sometimes

    4 Ensnaring Bridge is nice to help find faster, and multiple means you might be decay-safe, but it can sure be clunky having multiple in hand when you don't need it.

  6. #146

    Re: Braids Stax

    Hey all. Found this list on mtggoldfish and found it pretty interesting (credit to user Plainness). Link.

    Basically it is Sylvan Plug but with Tireless Tracker + Smokestack. Plenty of ways to get lands back, and for each land drop you get a token to sacrifice to the Engine. Seems a bit untuned but the Tracker synergy could be nice. And hey, any additional card draw source is always a big positive in Stompy. Sometimes you just have to dig one or two cards deeper to find something you need.

    Big plus is that the guy is a Human, so he works well with the 4-Cavern versions of Braids stax. If 4 Smokestack effects are nice, how about the full 8?

    Potential idea here for a BG Braids Stax version. Removing maindeck Toxic Deluges (since we are more creature heavy now) for Lilianas and Abrupt Decays. Decays could be a huge boon for us. Shedding Wasteland+Crucible combo for the BG landbase since we want to be consistently making land drops. Might as well have Sylvan Library if we are green, that is also a huge source of advantage (or just stick with Bottled Cloisters since that works much better with Bridge). Tracker here is sort of like Ophiomancer, easy to remove but has potential to allow the Engine to flow as well as grindy card draw when we need it.

    Probably don't need full 28 mana sources since we don't have Wastelands, but I wasn't sure which (probably 1) land to cut. Maybe go down to 3 Moxes and add...something. I really like the idea of Drownyard Temple in a deck without Crucible. Tracker + Drownyard Temple by itself allows Smokey to be at 2 easily (granted you have 3 mana available).

    Haven't retooled sideboard much in light of green splash, but there are good options. How would you like to run Tsunami in stax??? I know I would. Would be huge against Shardless where Chalice is mediocre and they can quickly outvalue and overwhelm us. And probably better against Miracles than Trinisphere (which seems less ideal without Wastelands).

    21
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Smokestack
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Sylvan Library

    11
    4 Ophiomancer
    3 Tireless Tracker
    4 Braids, Cabal Minion

    28
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    1 Drownyard Temple
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Bayou
    2 Swamp
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    side:
    4 Helm of Obedience
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Plague Spitter
    1 Thorn of Amethyst
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Toxic Deluge

    I'd like to test this online, but I'm kinda annoyed Tracker is around 8 tix or so.

    Edit: I think -1 Mox Diamond, +1 Garruk Relentless could work. Still have 16 (20 for creatures) black sources. 13 (17 for creatures) green sources. Might try Garruk as additional small creature killer and token producer, I've been really in favor of him in some other stompy lists I've been running.

  7. #147
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    Re: Braids Stax

    I've been having issues with delver/young pyro decks and decks that can cast a jace. Is there anything in particular you guys recommend, I'm using the generic list owerbart runs.

  8. #148
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    Re: Braids Stax

    I think with Tireless Tracker, you want Crucible or Life from the Loam to make sure you keep hitting your land drop every turn with it out.

    Against the Delver decks, I think DRS (which attacks our graveyard, gets around Ensnaring Bridge, generates them more mana to counter our mana denial) and Pyromancer (quickly generates many permanents to sacrifice to our Stax effects) are the biggest threats.

    Other than that, land heavy hands are stronger since they're going to Daze / Wasteland you.

  9. #149

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    Hey all. Found this list on mtggoldfish and found it pretty interesting (credit to user Plainness). Link.

    Basically it is Sylvan Plug but with Tireless Tracker + Smokestack. Plenty of ways to get lands back, and for each land drop you get a token to sacrifice to the Engine. Seems a bit untuned but the Tracker synergy could be nice. And hey, any additional card draw source is always a big positive in Stompy. Sometimes you just have to dig one or two cards deeper to find something you need.

    Big plus is that the guy is a Human, so he works well with the 4-Cavern versions of Braids stax. If 4 Smokestack effects are nice, how about the full 8?

    Potential idea here for a BG Braids Stax version. Removing maindeck Toxic Deluges (since we are more creature heavy now) for Lilianas and Abrupt Decays. Decays could be a huge boon for us. Shedding Wasteland+Crucible combo for the BG landbase since we want to be consistently making land drops. Might as well have Sylvan Library if we are green, that is also a huge source of advantage (or just stick with Bottled Cloisters since that works much better with Bridge). Tracker here is sort of like Ophiomancer, easy to remove but has potential to allow the Engine to flow as well as grindy card draw when we need it.

    Probably don't need full 28 mana sources since we don't have Wastelands, but I wasn't sure which (probably 1) land to cut. Maybe go down to 3 Moxes and add...something. I really like the idea of Drownyard Temple in a deck without Crucible. Tracker + Drownyard Temple by itself allows Smokey to be at 2 easily (granted you have 3 mana available).

    Haven't retooled sideboard much in light of green splash, but there are good options. How would you like to run Tsunami in stax??? I know I would. Would be huge against Shardless where Chalice is mediocre and they can quickly outvalue and overwhelm us. And probably better against Miracles than Trinisphere (which seems less ideal without Wastelands).

    21
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Smokestack
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Sylvan Library

    11
    4 Ophiomancer
    3 Tireless Tracker
    4 Braids, Cabal Minion

    28
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    1 Drownyard Temple
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Bayou
    2 Swamp
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    side:
    4 Helm of Obedience
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Plague Spitter
    1 Thorn of Amethyst
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Toxic Deluge

    I'd like to test this online, but I'm kinda annoyed Tracker is around 8 tix or so.

    Edit: I think -1 Mox Diamond, +1 Garruk Relentless could work. Still have 16 (20 for creatures) black sources. 13 (17 for creatures) green sources. Might try Garruk as additional small creature killer and token producer, I've been really in favor of him in some other stompy lists I've been running.
    Was not a fan after I decided to test this online. I can tell you that the plug version with some tweaks was great. Tracker in that shell was just bonkers. But in all honesty Ive had way more success with mono black over the green splash.

  10. #150

    Re: Braids Stax

    Has anyone tried some whitesplash? There are enough non-creature spells to feed monastery mentor, even without braids/stack it can help hold the board or add a nice clock. And Thalia can be very annoying and a good blocker as well.

    4 Braids, Cabal Minion
    3 Ophiomancer
    4 thalia
    3 monastery mentor

    2 Crucible of Worlds
    4 Smokestack
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Mox Diamond
    2 Bottled Cloister

    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Scrubland
    1 karakas
    1 God's Eye, Gate to the Reikai
    4 Wasteland
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

  11. #151

    Re: Braids Stax

    I feel like there are so many non-creature spells that Thalia is not a great match to pair with Mentor. With that mana base I'd probably run Lodestone Golem before I would run Thalia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scopeye View Post
    Has anyone tried some whitesplash? There are enough non-creature spells to feed monastery mentor, even without braids/stack it can help hold the board or add a nice clock. And Thalia can be very annoying and a good blocker as well.

    4 Braids, Cabal Minion
    3 Ophiomancer
    4 thalia
    3 monastery mentor

    2 Crucible of Worlds
    4 Smokestack
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Mox Diamond
    2 Bottled Cloister

    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Scrubland
    1 karakas
    1 God's Eye, Gate to the Reikai
    4 Wasteland
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    Cockatrice: Bosque

  12. #152

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by fullmetal030 View Post
    Was not a fan after I decided to test this online. I can tell you that the plug version with some tweaks was great. Tracker in that shell was just bonkers. But in all honesty Ive had way more success with mono black over the green splash.
    I would love to hear what tweaks you tried with the Sylvan Plug version. That deck looks like a lot of fun.

    Was the green splash really that bad online? I've tried a lot of Braids Stax and other stompy lists and I'll say that green is by far the best color - Library plus fetches is so important for seeing more cards, and I can't help but think that Abrupt Decays go a long way as well (too bad green sun's zenith isn't good here). Sometimes killing an early goyf or delver is all the breathing room you need to get pieces in place - and Deluge can just be too painful sometimes, at least without Baloth or Rhino to gain back life.

    Maybe the Liliana's could go in order to reduce the color requirements. 4th Decay, 3rd Library might work.

    @Scopeye:

    Mentor...I could -kind of- see. Looks so darn funky in a list with Trinisphere though. I think for creature/fuel slots, we really want stuff that just starts growing on its own. Opiomancer is simply superb, but Mardu Strike Leader also gets the job done (providing he can attack in ). I agree that Thalia is just a bigger nonbo - everything you need to jam is going to be more costly, and if your opponent is Wastelanding you or disrupting in other ways, it will compound the negative effect.

    Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is also great card to splash white for - although there is no Cavern synergy there.

    I wonder what other token producers are unexplored though...Icatian Crier? Pack Rat probably better. Jade Mage. Teysa, Orzhov Scion is humorous with Ophiomancer. Ok, I'm cringing at these. If you want to go more creatures, I'd say try the Bitterblossom/Dark Confidant/Umezawa's Jitte version. Good cards on their own, it's the consistency we need without having access to good card draw/filter.

  13. #153
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Hi, sorry for not replying before, i was on a trip!

    Going for white splash was something i thought in the very first iterations of the deck, although not put as much thought on it as you guys. I think a great card you could splash white for is Armageddon. If you want more token producers, I've had a pretty good experience with Pack Rat, mostly because it is an engine in itself, and unlike other token generators, it can multiply itself, so it's quite resilient. However, you would need to change the manabase in order to have a constant Black mana feed.

  14. #154

    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by owerbart View Post
    Hi, sorry for not replying before, i was on a trip!

    Going for white splash was something i thought in the very first iterations of the deck, although not put as much thought on it as you guys. I think a great card you could splash white for is Armageddon. If you want more token producers, I've had a pretty good experience with Pack Rat, mostly because it is an engine in itself, and unlike other token generators, it can multiply itself, so it's quite resilient. However, you would need to change the manabase in order to have a constant Black mana feed.
    What do you feel are the matches we struggle the most against, owerbart?

    I can check my excel sheet once I get home - I keep track of all my online matches and can reference my history playing different versions of Braids Stax in the past several months. I've a feeling that storm and miracles tend to be easier, storm being almost a bye due to the large and quick amounts of hate we have mainboard. Miracles struggles with both Chalice and Stax effects - landing either Bitterblossom or Smokestack and they have a very hard time answering it. Ensnaring Bridge heavy versions of our deck tend to have an easier time against Reanimator and Sneak/Show, possibly Eldrazi (Eldrazi lot better if you are running both Bridge and Wasteland). Reanimator and graveyard strategies additionally kept in check due to having Leyline/Helm combo in the side.

    The primary reason for splashing, in my opinion, is going to be to increase consistency/card advantage/card selection. It's about the one thing really holding us back. There are times when it's "well I lost since my stuff just doesn't affect them" like against Elves (not drawing Deluge, and ugh the times they seem to be fine even after Chalice/Sphere) but 90% of the time it's "my own draws aren't lining up".

    How can we shore up our selection? I'm thinking that green may have the best tool in Sylvan Library.

    I've tried Dark Confidant and he may warrant more testing - the aggro human shell was certainly interesting. Plucky guy drew a lot of counters/hate so that lock pieces could come down.

    owerbart, you've probably played the most with Bottled Cloister in here - am I undervaluing it? I admit I haven't played much with it, but it is a source of advantage. I just keep thinking that I'd rather have something that comes down sooner. Trading Post just seems conditionally good - if you have the resources to utilize it then I think you are already ahead.

    I'm wondering if it is worth it to cut the Caverns and have some Libraries. I'm so much more annoyed/afraid at not having what I need than for Ophio or Braids to be countered. Using your list on the first page primer, you could replace 2 Trading Posts and 1 Cloister with 3 Sylvan Libraries.

    Change the manabase to something like...
    4 Mox Diamond
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    5 fetches
    2 Swamp
    4 Bayou
    4 Wasteland
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    Maybe I'm just spinning my wheels. Columbus is a month away and I still haven't settled on a deck for it yet, and I've had a string of sub-par results on legacy leagues lately. I'm not going to commit to 9 matches in a day if the deck I'm playing isn't going to be consistent. 2-2 right now in a league using that Tracker Stax/Sylvan Plug list. Tracker + Stax is indeed a great pair. Had a deathblade player concede while he was at 45 life and me at 1 life, thanks to 2 Smokestacks blowing the board (and his Batterskull/SFM) and then me drawing lands into Trinisphere, with Loam/wastelands available in my grave.

  15. #155
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    What do you feel are the matches we struggle the most against, owerbart?

    I can check my excel sheet once I get home - I keep track of all my online matches and can reference my history playing different versions of Braids Stax in the past several months. I've a feeling that storm and miracles tend to be easier, storm being almost a bye due to the large and quick amounts of hate we have mainboard. Miracles struggles with both Chalice and Stax effects - landing either Bitterblossom or Smokestack and they have a very hard time answering it. Ensnaring Bridge heavy versions of our deck tend to have an easier time against Reanimator and Sneak/Show, possibly Eldrazi (Eldrazi lot better if you are running both Bridge and Wasteland). Reanimator and graveyard strategies additionally kept in check due to having Leyline/Helm combo in the side.

    The primary reason for splashing, in my opinion, is going to be to increase consistency/card advantage/card selection. It's about the one thing really holding us back. There are times when it's "well I lost since my stuff just doesn't affect them" like against Elves (not drawing Deluge, and ugh the times they seem to be fine even after Chalice/Sphere) but 90% of the time it's "my own draws aren't lining up".

    How can we shore up our selection? I'm thinking that green may have the best tool in Sylvan Library.

    I've tried Dark Confidant and he may warrant more testing - the aggro human shell was certainly interesting. Plucky guy drew a lot of counters/hate so that lock pieces could come down.

    owerbart, you've probably played the most with Bottled Cloister in here - am I undervaluing it? I admit I haven't played much with it, but it is a source of advantage. I just keep thinking that I'd rather have something that comes down sooner. Trading Post just seems conditionally good - if you have the resources to utilize it then I think you are already ahead.

    I'm wondering if it is worth it to cut the Caverns and have some Libraries. I'm so much more annoyed/afraid at not having what I need than for Ophio or Braids to be countered. Using your list on the first page primer, you could replace 2 Trading Posts and 1 Cloister with 3 Sylvan Libraries.

    Change the manabase to something like...
    4 Mox Diamond
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    5 fetches
    2 Swamp
    4 Bayou
    4 Wasteland
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    Maybe I'm just spinning my wheels. Columbus is a month away and I still haven't settled on a deck for it yet, and I've had a string of sub-par results on legacy leagues lately. I'm not going to commit to 9 matches in a day if the deck I'm playing isn't going to be consistent. 2-2 right now in a league using that Tracker Stax/Sylvan Plug list. Tracker + Stax is indeed a great pair. Had a deathblade player concede while he was at 45 life and me at 1 life, thanks to 2 Smokestacks blowing the board (and his Batterskull/SFM) and then me drawing lands into Trinisphere, with Loam/wastelands available in my grave.
    Bottled Cloister has been pretty good for me specially against the deck that we struggle the most: Decay/Loam decks since most of them don't have agreat way to stop Cloister as a source of advantage. In all the matches I've played I can recall only one time my opponent taking the cloister away and me losing my cards.

    About the green splash, I just don't see it. Already playing a mono-color version you are already cutting edges to make sure you have available black mana, with two colors that has to be even worse, also making you much more weak to wasteland. The other problem I had with Library was that only against deck that don't pressure your life you will be able to get juice from it, and also because of how redundant this deck is, having 3 card-selection and life paying with library over blinddrawing two a turn with cloister doesn't look that nice. I tried tireless tracker a little bit and although I'm not expert in the BG lists I wasn't able to get a lot of value from him because I wasn't able to guarantee myself a land-drop every turn.

    About Caverns, I know a lot of people don't like to play with them, and i agree that if you want to splash a second color you should probably forego them, but sneaking an ophiomancer/braids through dazes and fows saved too many games to cut them.

    About your manabase, i would NEVER, EVER cut any of the 8 sol lands. The first-turns acceleration mana is what will tell you how good a hand can be.

    Also, I took 2nd in a 5 round tournament today; little report:

    R1: Elves

    G1: My opponent opens on bayou->DRS, and I have the T1 chalice, followed by a quick smokestack and crucible. He manages to sneak a natural order for behemoth but he can't swing for lethal. I just tick smokey up in my turn, waste him away and it's game over.

    in: 2 Perish, 2 Plague Spitter, 1 Revoker
    out: 2 Trading Post, 3 Ophiomancer

    G2: He opens with a very weak hand, T1 Dryad go. I respond with a T1 Trinisphere. I have an ophiomancer to stop some beats and feed Smokestack, but when he commits too much of a board i just deluge it away and smokey finishes the job.

    R2: Eldrazi

    G1: I mull to 5 on the play. I play tomb go, and he plays Eye-Go. I guess he is going for the T2 TKS so i hide my hand behind a cloister, and then an ophiomancer stops his army while Smokey eats his permanents. He has a phyrexian mimic to copy my cloister, but my deck has more answers to his stuff than he has for mine. Eventually I stabilize at 4 life with a Trini, Smokey, Crucible against him with zero permanents.

    in: 4 Leyline, 4 Helm
    out: 4 chalice, 4 Trini

    G2: I keep a pretty good seven with a T2 Ophiomancer, T3 smokestack. eventually he makes a small army and the mimic copies my ophiomancer so i'm not nuking his permanents, although he's somewhat screwed on mana, while i have plenty and 3 more lands in my hand. I waste a tomb, and in response he dismembers my ophiomancer and warping wails my snake token, which turns out pretty good for me since my deluge + a smokestack sends him to stone age. Eventually i swipe his board and he concedes after i land a bridge

    R3: Elves

    G1: We both mull to 6 with me on the draw. I have a t2 trini, followed it up with a Toxic Deluge after he fetches for dryads, and Braids finishes the job.

    sideboard same as before

    G2: I keep a sketchy 7, which turns out to be pretty good since i draw the black mana i needed. I have Chalice, Trini, Smokey, and plague spitter.

    R4: UR Delver

    G1 My T2 trini gets forced and I'm always behind until he burns me for exactsies.

    in: 1 Thorn of Ametyst
    out: 1 Crucible of Worlds

    G2: T1 Trini, i have the smokey and T. Post. He never gets to play a spell.

    G3: He opens up with island go. My t1 thorn sticks, so does my T3 Trini, but he lands a quick swiftspear and I can't find answers, while he PoPs me out of nowhere for a lot. I feel I could've played this game a tad bit sharply than i did, specially with my smokestack/chalice setups.


    R5: Lands

    G1: He is on the play and has T1 Manabond + Ports and Loam. I never achieve a lot in this game, other than landing a T. Post but Marit Lage kills me.

    in: 4 Leyline 4 Helm
    out: 4 Ophiomancer , 3 Toxic Deluge, 1 Braids

    G2: I have a T1 crucible and set the chalice on 2. He crop rotates TWICE for Rishadan Ports, but I'm able to land a Leyline. In his turn he taps out for making Marit Lage in his turn and play around a wasteland, but his ports free my mana and I'm able to Helm him out of the game.

    G3: I have the T0 leyline and by the looks of his face it's going to pull some weight. He plays fetch go, I play waste. He wastes my waste in my turn, and lays down a Mox. I play Swamp. Eventually i have Swamp + Tomb and City being ported. I have more land but I keep them in my hand to pair with moxes. Eventually I manage to land a Bridge and a Trini through the ports. In my EoT he K-Grips the bridge, and on his turn he once again makes the Marit Lage Token. Same song and dance, now he isn't porting me anymore, and I'm free to cast and activate my Helm.

    /report

    Back on topic: I feel like Cloisters were super good today when they mattered. Given the fact that you will need the same ammounts of mana ratio to make something out of Tracker, I think you can give it a try.

  16. #156

    Re: Braids Stax

    Thanks owerbart, that does make me feel a lot better about Bottled Cloister, I will give it more of a try. Idea of turn 2 Bottled in order to prevent Thought-Knot just sounds sweet. Any recent changes to your list?

  17. #157
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Bottle to stop the TKS is a cheeky interaction, but overall the matchup is very lopsided in your favour.

    I'm still playing the same list, I'm still trying to see what could I cut to jam some Tamiyo's Journal

  18. #158

    Re: Braids Stax

    Hello fellow Legacy Fans,

    this is actually my first post here. I've been a reader of this forum for many years.
    I'm originally from Germany, but i'm living/working in Canada (Vancouver, BC) right now.
    I've been playing Magic since 1996 and i always had an affinity towards black and green decks.

    Owerbarts List got me interested, because i always wanted to play a Stax deck. I just recently discovered, that i'm playing a lot of chalice-decks. (MUD, Eldrazi, Stax, UBg Tezzeret)
    I guess, i just wanna stop players from casting those brainstorms and swords! ;-)

    I took Braid Stax to 2 local game nights on thursday at magic stronghold to give it a try.

    That is my recent list, after a first revision:

    CREATURES:
    4 Braids, Cabal Minion
    4 Ophiomancer
    2 Hangarback Walker

    ARTIFACTS:
    3 Smokestack
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Mox Diamond
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Chalice of the Void

    PLANESWALKER:
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    SOCERIES:
    2 Toxic Deluge

    LANDS:
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Wasteland
    2 Cavern of Souls
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    7 Swamp
    2 Polluted Delta

    SB: 1 Trinisphere
    SB: 2 Dystopia
    SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 1 Engineered Plague
    SB: 1 Cursed Totem
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 2 Pithing Needle
    SB: 2 Bottled Cloister
    SB: 1 Winter Orb

    Game 1: 1-1 (Shardless BUG)
    - Dystopia out of the SB was my MVP

    Game 2: 0-2 (BG Turbo Depth)
    - Hymns and Abrupt Decyas are good cards ;-)

    Game 3: 2-0 (Grixis Pyromancer)
    - Chalice and Toxic Deluge

    Game 4: 0-2 (Mentor Miracles)
    - Trinisphere and Winter Orb are good here

    _____________________________________________________

    + T1 ophiomancer, T2 Braids on the play ;-)
    + Ophiomancer holding off everything on the ground
    + Hangarback Walker: first test, fits into the game plan of being a permanent that creates more permanents when it dies (Braids, Stax, Toxic Deluge)
    + Dystopia against Shardless BUG, Maverick, D&T
    + Opponents Faces when they ask themselves how and what they should board

    -- awkward opening draws with no ways to fix it (but that is what we signed up for)
    -- still looking for a way to draw cards and apply more pressure (i have to test bottled cloister more)
    -- loses against itself some time ;-)
    -- what to do when opponents are playing basic lands?!?! I mean, WTF!! ;-)

    ____________________________________________________

    Thoughts moving forward:
    - i want to try the more "aggressive" route with +1 Hangarback Walker and Jitte
    - SB Tech (thanks to Colin for the idea): 2x Apostle's Blessing to protect my stuff against Decay, Swords, Bolts, Wear/Tear....
    - maybe moving the Bridges to the SB, eventhough they are soooo good sometimes
    - 3 Toxics main?
    - maybe bitterblossom, but i'm afraid the lifeloss would be too much

    Thanks for reading.
    - Philip

  19. #159

    Re: Braids Stax

    a quick follow up on my Braids Stax List v03:

    CREATURES:
    4 Braids, Cabal Minion
    4 Ophiomancer
    4 Hangarback Walker

    ARTIFACTS:
    3 Smokestack
    4 Trinisphere
    3 Mox Diamond
    1 Mox Opal
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Umezawa's Jitte

    SOCERIES:
    2 Toxic Deluge

    PLANESWALKERS:
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    LANDS:
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Wasteland
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    7 Swamp
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    4 City of Traitors
    2 Cavern of Souls

    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 2 Pithing Needle
    SB: 2 Winter Orb
    SB: 2 Dystopia
    SB: 1 Engineered Plague
    SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 2 Trading Post

    stuff i've tested:
    4x Hangarback Walker - hard to tell, they died a lot to STP, but i was always happy to see one
    1x Mox Opal - easy to unlock with 23 artifacts, but sometimes awkward with trinisphere in play
    2x umezawa's jitte - a flex spot, maybe replaced with more lock pieces/card draw, move to SB?

    stuff i wanna test:
    2x warping wail Mainboard - counters Terminus, gets rid of DRS


    Match 1: 2 - 1 (Dredge)
    - i got lucky with T0 leyline in both games

    Match 2: 1 - 2 (Miracles)
    - i hate SDT and Terminus!!! ;-)
    - brought in 2x pithing needle, 1x Plague, 2x Winter Orb -> next maybe 3x pithing needle

    Match 3: 0 - 2 (Dredge)
    - this time no luck with the leyline, dread return got there, i didn't see any bridges

    Match 4: 2 - 0 (Storm)
    - MB hate is good


    A little bit off topic, but Stax related:
    i have seen this sweet Eldrazi Stax Deck from Valentin Mackl in Prague last week. i really like the combination of lock pieces and pressure here:

    4 Reality Smasher
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    4 Matter Reshaper
    4 Hangarback Walker
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    3 Warping Wail
    1 Dismember
    4 Smokestack
    4 Chalice of the Void
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    3 Cavern of Souls
    4 Wasteland
    2 Ghost Quarter
    1 Miren, the Moaning Well
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Trinisphere

    SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
    SB: 3 Pithing Needle
    SB: 4 Thorn of Amethyst
    SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
    SB: 2 Crucible of Worlds
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction


    thanks for reading.
    - philip

  20. #160
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    Re: Braids Stax

    Hi. Sorry for the late reply, I've been doing a lot of work and got loaded with study from the uni.

    I took the classical list for 4 rounds of legacy today.

    R1: Miracles

    G1 I have the T1 trinisphere, he gets stuck in two lands and I just lock him.

    IN 3 Revoker, out 1 Toxic, 2 Bridge

    G2 I have a T1 chalice but i draw like 10 lands in a row and he eventually breaks free.

    G3 My lockpieces get countered, but my Braids goes unchecked long enough to swallow his permanents.


    WIN 2-1


    R2: UR Eldrazi (with cantrips)

    G1 He plays Eye and Mimic + Endless. I have a turn two Bridge but i'm wary of the T2 TKS (he's on the play) so I waste him, take 6, but he doesn't have two sol-lands to power the T2 TKS. I hide behind my bridge + Trading Post winning life, which locks him out of the game. With no pressure at all I'm able to comfortably develop my board.

    IN + 8 Helm Combo pieces, out the 4 trinis, 4 COTV

    G2 He gets too quickly and my bridge gets bounced.

    G3 I have a T2 Ophiomancer that holds the fort, with T0 leyline. Eventually I get to resist enough beatings to find the Helm and take the game.

    WIN 2-1


    R3: UW Stoneblade (with MD back to basics)

    G1 I have a T1 chalice, and although I have the wasteland + crucible lock he plays so many wastelands it does nothing. Even though he plays two spells into the COTV, he gets a couple of Aven Mindcensors that laugh at my Ophiomancer :(

    OUT 2 Crucible, in 1 Phyrexian Revoker, 1 Virtue's Ruin

    G2 Is a blast. I have a quick chalice that gets countered, I keep drawing smokestacks and he has a Meddling Mage naming it. I keep taking hits until he commits a second creature, and then I cast Virtue's Ruin. I fight through Hurkyll's Recall x 2 but eventually I have 3 Smokestacks in 3 that sweep his board before he can Ultimate with Jace.

    G3 My chalice gets dazed, but my Smokey gets in and it eventually sweeps his board.

    WIN 2-1


    R4: Miracles

    G1 My T2 on the draw Trini gets spell pierced, although that means that he has to draw with his T1 top and miss his third landrop. My second trini sticks, and he topdecks land just in time to get rid of my braids. I do however manage to land a crucible to keep his miracles in check with wasteland on his fetches, + a chalice on 1. He has a Jace but keeps brainstorming into 1 CMC spells and my creatures through cavern do the job.

    In: 3 Phyrexian Revoker, out 2 Bridge, 1 Toxic

    G2 He plays top go. I have COTV on 1. He tops in his upkeep and concedes.

    WIN 2-0


    Overall a fun event. I seriously felt better about our Miracles matchup, I think my win percentage is about 80% against miracles by now.

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