Given the two lands that both do the trick, we are either in red/blue or black/blue. And there is always three colors. We can borrow some tech from dredge. But I think given the reliance on the GY, this deck competes in design space with Reanimator. We probably need both discard and counters for incidental hate from Deathrites and stuff.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
Well, we are UB by default as we need to cast Animate Dead and Entomb and stuff. The question is really is the 3rd splash color red for Loothouse + Bolts + Rebs or green for (castable) Eternal Witness + Life from the Loam + Enchantment Removal postboard.Originally Posted by Finn
Thank you for a well-reasoned post. I think we can do without the poster spam though.
White gives enlightened tutor and maybe Silence.
Guys, you should play Blue Sun's Zenith as the win condition, as it gets around both Progenitus and Emrakul.
Depending on the graveyard filling strategy, Argivian Find might work too.
Oona is the best because she Exiles cards, so you get around Emrakul and it's ilk.
What would Witness get back?
That seems reasonable and it's an instant so you don't have to break the loop to cast it, but you do need it in hand to go off.
I played a fair amount of Dragon in Vintage back before Decay, so I'm interested in seeing how this goes.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
So does oona
I am inclined to steer clear of white despite how handy E-tutor is. The deck is necessarily part control due to its place in the meta, and the kind of control white gives us are antithetical to a combo-control deck like this. And I agree with LennonMarx. We are in black and blue for sure. I think three colors will be too hard on consistency since we have a land as part of the combo. It looks like UB is the way to start.
Also, you want the wincon to be a creature. That way you can animate it with the same spell that you have been using to infinite with the dragon. Laquatus is an example that works, but I am hoping that there is some sort of staple that does it better. Like if Snapcaster or Clique could somehow be a wincon.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
That is certainly possible in a build with Cunning Wishes, though all of the viable win conditions do so (Oona, Wish->X Spell, Eternal Witness looping). Of possible interest, is there a viable win condition that doesn't target the opponent?
I think the most obvious choices are Helix Pinnacle and Laboratory Maniac.
I kind of assumed everyone in here has played as much vintage dragon as I did as assumed the witness kill was known. It goes like this:
Step 1: Animate Dragon
Step 2: Mill your library (however we are doing this) and generate infinite mana
Step 3: On one of the loops, switch Animate Dead's target to Eternal Witness, get back another animate dead with her.
Step 4: Animate Dragon again.
Step 5: Put your entire deck in your hand with witness triggers
Step 6: Break loop by having both Animate Deads target witness.
Step 7: Cast (I'm assuming Deep Analysis here, but some target player draws spell) on your opponent.
Step 8: Duress all the relevant cards out of your opponents hand.
Step 9: Repeat steps 4-8 until they are decked.
Edit:
I totally blanked on Maniac. Pinnacle is super sweet, though. Shame it triggers on upkeep and not as soon as you add the 100th counter
OK, that seems like it makes you run more pieces than just 4 Dragons and 1 Oona though. What's the advantage? That Witness is more castable I guess?
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
So you run 2 witnesses? as the first one is still in play since it got exiled with the animate Deads, and came back as a new witness, not a animated one.
Maybe this is a silly question, but with the amount of excellent grave hate available right now, what makes this any better than Reanimator, Dredge or TinFins?
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Nah, just pop it in and out with the worldgorger dragon triggers. To end the loop, I think you can pull the WGDs out of the graveyard to fizzle animate dead.
It is more fun to play...
I don't think anyone here believes this is a better (or even good, although it's possible) reanimator deck. It's been dead in Vintage for a few years now, and probably has too many cards that interact with it to ever be tier 1 (or likely even 2)
But it's new... and by god somebody has to put 4 Gorgers in a 75, if only for Nostalgia. See Land Tax.
Swim, Bike, Run, MTG
How strong is a bulk fill approach? Something like:
Brainstorm
Ponder
Tolarian Winds
False Memories
Dig Through Time
Animate Dead
Dance of the Dead
Worldgorger Dragon
Griselbrand
Daze
Force of Will
Think Twice
Laboratory Maniac
Lands
EDIT: This is bad...
Well, it's only more pieces if Deep Analysis isn't something you already want. I don't know if that is the case. In vintage you did the loop with Ancestral Recall, which you obviously were playing anyways.
Hmm, you're right. The draw spell in vintage being instant speed mattered. 2 Witness may not be that bad, though, or you need to run a main deck bounce spell of some sort, which might also be something we want.
Edit:
Yes! That! I knew there was a way to break the loop so you could play sorceries and then start it back up with only 1 witness.
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