BUG Control

[H]

Well, I am wondering why there isn't a BUG deck in Modern. In no way am I expecting this to be tier 1, but if Grixis can be tier 2, I don't see why BUG can't be.

Reasons to run BUG:
1.) Access to BG core cards, like [card]Abrupt Decay[/card], [card]Tarmogoyf[/card], [card]Thoughtseize[/card], [card]Liliana of the Veil[/card], etc.
2.) Access to Blue sources of consistency, like Serum Visions, Think Twice, etc.
3.) You just like BUG.

I saw the following list on TCDecks:

1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
3 Snapcaster Mage

1 Dismember
2 Dig Through Time
2 Dimir Charm
2 Disfigure
2 Sultai Charm
3 Mana Leak
3 Shadow of Doubt
3 Spell Snare
3 Voidslime
4 Abrupt Decay

1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Black Sun's Zenith

3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta

Sideboard

1 Spellskite
1 Thragtusk
1 Damnation
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Last Word
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Memoricide
3 Rain of Tears
2 Feed the Clan

By Carmine Gitto. Now this list has some issues to me, like the fact that the main is 62 cards, 3 Ashiok and Voidslimes, not to mention that Dig is now banned.

From there, I decided to see what I could do with the list by adding cards I knew I wanted to play, like Goyf and Thoughtseize. I know Goyf seems odd in a "control" deck, but I envision a deck that an play both the control role and even play like a midrange deck when a faster win is needed.

Here is my first draft:

3 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Thragtusk

3 Serum Visions
2 Think Twice
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Thoughtseize
3 Mana Leak
2 Disfigure
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Spell Snare
3 Cryptic Command
1 Dimir Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Drown In Sorrow
1 Garruk Relentless

I would run this with 25 lands. This is definitely not in any way a completed idea, I'm just throwing some things down and seeing if anyone has tried something like this, so they can tell me how bad an idea it is. While I know this is not as good as a dedicated Control deck, I like decks that can play different roles as needed.

Someone at MTGS has suggested that Disfigure might not be needed now that Delver was hit by the TC ban. I'm not really in touch enough to be sure. Possibly that moves to the sideboard.

Ideas and criticisms welcome.

[YamiJoey]

There was a deck floating around with 4 Sultai Charm and 4 Abrupt Decays in it. I think it was Cuneo?

[H]

There was a deck floating around with 4 Sultai Charm and 4 Abrupt Decays in it. I think it was Cuneo?

Wow, 4 seems like a lot...after looking at it a bit, I kind of like the Charm as maybe a 2-of? Not sure, I'll see if I can possibly find his list though, thanks.

[jroharo]

Here is my take:

Creatures - 6
4 SCM
2 Goyf

Spells - 29
3 IoK
4 Serum Visions
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
3 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Mana Leak
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sultai Charm
2 Voidslime
1 Damnation

Lands - 25
2 Breeding Pool
3 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Watery Grave


This is purely a thought experiment. I have done no testing.

[H]

This is purely a thought experiment. I have done no testing.

Not a problem, I haven't sleeved up anything at all, so thing will probably be all a thought experiment until the week of,

I like your mana base, I think that is pretty much what I'll run, I think Ghost Quarter is needed, because there is a good chance I will see both Mono-Blue Tron and GR Tron.

I am also expecting some Burn and Affinity. I like Drown in Sorrow over the Damnation in the main, because it doesn't kill my Goyf, or Tusk, but probably kills all my opponent's creatures. 1 mana less seems like a lot of me also and the Scry just seems like gravy. I was thinking of getting the Damnation in to the board.

I'm really unsure of Liliana in this kind of deck. I am not sure I want to be emptying my hand but maybe that's OK?

Also, as much as I like Voidslime in theory, do you think it is that good? Without Pod, does it really get value much?

[nedleeds]

loam seems like the best control card to run with liliana, you hit all your land drops (tough to do in modern) and its obviously absurd with liliana.

[H]

loam seems like the best control card to run with liliana, you hit all your land drops (tough to do in modern) and its obviously absurd with liliana.

I ran Loam in BUG Landstill here in Legacy for most of the year, last year. It's unfortunate that Pernicious Deed is not in Modern, but the combination of Loam and Lili might be good here too. I might try that out, endless Ghost Quarters seems alright.

[Lord Seth]

Well, I am wondering why there isn't a BUG deck in Modern.

Largely because if you're in BG, you get a lot more from a Red splash (Jund) or White splash (Junk) than anything Blue offers you.

I mean, heck, the White splash is so powerful right now (thanks to Siege Rhino) that even Jund has largely disappeared. You just get so much more from the White splash than you do from anything else.

[nedleeds]

Even more than lil is just making land drops in modern. There is no brainstorm to sandbag lands for and I'm the only one who has ever cast bust, so there is little reason to not play a land every turn.

[Mr. Safety]

If you are playing loam...not to stifle creativity...but setting up a gifts pile like loam, ravens crime, academy ruins, engineerd explosives is strong.

[H]

Largely because if you're in BG, you get a lot more from a Red splash (Jund) or White splash (Junk) than anything Blue offers you.

I mean, heck, the White splash is so powerful right now (thanks to Siege Rhino) that even Jund has largely disappeared. You just get so much more from the White splash than you do from anything else.

Yeah, I realize I am essentially handicapping myself by not playing White. I just don't feel like being another guy slinging some Rhinos. I'll probably lose to Rhinos all night,

Even more than lil is just making land drops in modern. There is no brainstorm to sandbag lands for and I'm the only one who has ever cast bust, so there is little reason to not play a land every turn.

Well, that gives me a new idea for a Modern deck,

If you are playing loam...not to stifle creativity...but setting up a gifts pile like loam, ravens crime, academy ruins, engineerd explosives is strong.

Now I might be getting good idea overload. I'll have to see if I can make all this fit. Gifts also seems good with Snapcaster too, obviously.

[rickster]

Largely because if you're in BG, you get a lot more from a Red splash (Jund) or White splash (Junk) than anything Blue offers you.

I mean, heck, the White splash is so powerful right now (thanks to Siege Rhino) that even Jund has largely disappeared. You just get so much more from the White splash than you do from anything else.

To expand on this further, all the good blue cards in modern are tempo oriented. Snapcaster and remand really want you to be aggressive. Both those cards are instant speed, while the BG cards are mostly sorcery speed. You don't have that many tempo positive cards to flash back with snapcaster. BUG is not aggressive, so you can't leverage the 2/1 body that well. Playing snapcaster as a glorified regrowth hasn't been good in modern for at least a year (see UWR control). Cryptic command is another reason to play blue, but it warps your mana base.

All of the dimir cards that reward you for playing BUG are terrible. Sultai charm was fringe playable since it gave you a main deck out to pod. But now you'll want 4 decays and 1 maelstrom pulse before you even think about sultai charm.

Also the BGx decks have a notoriously bad affinity and burn match ups, and splashing blue does not improve those. So what are you really gaining other than being different?

As for playing gifts, that deck hasn't been viable for years.

http://archive.wizards.com/magic/mag...hi12/welcome#1

It was really good when deathrite came out, but so was jund. And it had a bad jund match up which was why it died. While 4 color gifts and BGx suffered a bit with deathrite banned, BGx received scavenging ooze. So i'd imagine the 4 color gifts deck still has a bad BGx match up since it didn't really get any new cards. The one thing going for 4 color gifts is that it has an excellent affinity match up, between main deck dark blast, lingering souls, reanimating elesh norn, and with gifts to find all those cards. I recall Shane McDermott saying he beat a ton of affinity at that GP.

[H]

So, I should just run Junk and call it a day? I mean, its a minor investment, probably only need 1 more Rhino to do it (I know I have 2, but I think a third is in an unsorted pile somewhere).

One other reason I was trying to avoid that is all the former Pod player here will probably be playing the same thing. Rhino on Rhino action seems really boring though, from what I've seen on Standard coverage.

[Valtrix]

If you're interested in gifts, you could check out the mtgsalvation thread. My gifts build is very BUG oriented, here's what it looks like: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...s?comment=2093. It would require a few updates for the new meta (4 disfigure is bad, they would probably change to some number of snare now). I still think gifts is very powerful, but I think it suffers from not being played enough to gravitate to a "more optimal" list and is less tested. Some people play more rock-like versions of the deck too, but I like the more control versions better.

[H]

If you're interested in gifts, you could check out the mtgsalvation thread. My gifts build is very BUG oriented, here's what it looks like: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...s?comment=2093. It would require a few updates for the new meta (4 disfigure is bad, they would probably change to some number of snare now). I still think gifts is very powerful, but I think it suffers from not being played enough to gravitate to a "more optimal" list and is less tested. Some people play more rock-like versions of the deck too, but I like the more control versions better.

Looks like I have everything there to play it (and enough in foil to please me). Would you change anything about the build to adjust for whatever new meta we could be seeing?

[jroharo]

If you are playing loam...not to stifle creativity...but setting up a gifts pile like loam, ravens crime, academy ruins, engineerd explosives is strong.

Hmm....gift loam seems pretty cool. Also Pack Rat seems like a sweet beater with loam...

[YamiJoey]

Pack Rat is not good. I promise.

[jroharo]

Pack Rat is not good. I promise.

Yeah jammed a few hands and realized that immediately. I 100% agree.

[Valtrix]

I'm not sure the specific updates I would make--I don't actually know what the new meta is going to be and it's been awhile since I've tested. I definitely am not a fan of disfigure right now. Here's where I would start, with the expectation for making updates later:

//25 Lands
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
3 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Academy Ruins
1 Godless Shrine
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Hallowed Fountain

//Just for Gifts
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Unburial Rites

//Control
3 Spell Snare
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Dimir Charm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sultai Charm
2 Snapcaster Mage

//Threats
1 Batterskull
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Liliana of the Veil

//Sideboard
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Eternal Witness
1 Damnation
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Pithing Needle
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Dimir Charm
1 Ashen Rider
2 Merchant Scroll
1 Syphon Life
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Flashfreeze

A list of the changes: -4 Disfigure -1 Snapcaster Mage -1 Mouth of Ronom +3 Spell Snare +1 Taisigur +1 Hallowed Fountain +1 Sultai Charm for the main, and for the SB -1 Dimir Charm -1 Sultai Charm +1 Ashen Rider +1 Pithing Needle.

I think Junk, so Ashen Rider is the best tech I could come up with there in 5 minutes, but I think there's probably better options. It's more a reminder that I want a slot for that. Tron will also get more popular, so having tech vs. them would be useful too. I'd like to fit Mouth of Ronom into the deck again, and it could maybe be land #26 by cutting a spell, since the curve has slowly been getting more bloated in my list... I'd also consider a Ghost Quarter for the sideboard, as again I think Tron will get more popular so we should have more answers IMO.

[MrShine]

Mouth of Ronom... seems kind of dangerous in a 4c deck; it basically sucks a whole turn to activate, and if you're thinking of Junk, doesn't kill Siege Rhino...

Don't forget about Murderous Cut! The 1st copy should almost assuredly be in the MD, 1 mana removal is too good to pass up.