I fear that this card got overlooked very quickly.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Legendary Creature - Human Shaman
Delve
2: Put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard, then return a nonland card of an opponent's choice from your graveyard to your hand.
4/5
To me it is looking to just be a 1 mana 4/5 that works as a fifth goyf (or even replaces goyfs entirely in a deck). True he requires a little more set up, but not really all that much set up - considering normal play: Turn 1 Fetch - Spell, Turn 2 Fetch - Spell - you can cast him turn 3 for 1 mana easy, and turn 2 if you have a Probe. Also understandably he is hard to run alongside goyf due to eating up your own grave - and its hard to run him as a 4 of due to his legendary status, but he is also immune to Abrupt Decay unlike goyf. Without Treasure Cruise around anymore the graveyards should be untouched for the most part (Outside DRS) and ready to delve whenever you want to routinely cast him for only 1 or 2 mana.
His activated ability doesn't really have an upfront impact on the game until it can get really drawn out into a resource scarce game, which he will then overwhelm the opponent in card advantage - but it's really just gravy.
What deck or archetype can this card be used in and why?
I believe he can be used instead of Goyf or with Goyf in non-aggro decks. He won't come down turn 2 all that often like Goyf so it would be foolish to use him as Aggro. Just looking at the 1st page of Established and Decks to beat I can see him in:
Jund (although there is disynergy with Dark Confidant - so I expect Tasigur to stay in decks with blue, which don't have to rely on non blue draw engines)
bUrg Tempo ( I know I said no aggro decks, but this seems like a fine turn 3 play regardless in the deck, especially since they are playing less than the full set of Goyf's already)
Nic-Fit
Shardless (only if the shardless player doesn't like pulling goyf with agent instead of removal or discard) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=79229)
How does this card fulfill the role of another card in an existing archetype more effectively than the card it would replace?
As was discussed this card has the same stats of goyf, but takes more set up - but comes with the following upsides: Can be cast for 1 mana, Immune to Abrupt Decay, and can help in the long game maybe. Also he is relatively immune to counterbalance - and he is good against opposing goyfs, due to making them smaller
Another upside is the cavern of souls may actually be reasonably used on him since he is a human (or shaman with deathrite shaman)
How has the metagame changed or what new cards exist now to make this card playable?
Treasure cruise is no longer cannibalizing your own graveyard, and other delve cards can now be supported.
Sample Decklist
Just as a thought experiment here is a deck that might use him
4 Cavern of Souls
14 Lands
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Ponder
Last edited by Jander78; 01-28-2015 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Added tags and mana graphics.
How is this one any better than Tombstalker? Because it's cheaper to cast?
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Originally Posted by Echelon
Essentially yes - fully delved he is cheaper to cast, and also that 1 card for delve makes a big difference in getting him out turn 2 and even turn 3 reliably. Additionally he is a human and shaman which makes him ideal for cavern in terms of Delver or even Deathrite Shaman.
He can do a pretty good Goyf impression. He's also more splashable.
How usable his ability to generate CA is for Legacy needs to be explored, though. Might be fancy with Brainstorm and DRS shenanigans.
He has a decent P/T, but no evasion so he gets chumped allot.
It is probably easier to drop and grow a goyf.
His ability is interesting, but only really good with a infinite mana combo, as otherwise you get the worst card, and since you keep milling to use it you are not likely to clear up the chaff. That said I would like to try him with Mind over Matter, and some land that produces 5+ mana, but I doubt that can be made competitive.
He can't replace goyf because he's Legendary. Alongside goyf maybe but Legendary 4-ofs are iffy, especially if they're creatures you're counting on as beaters.
Since the other ability is "just gravy" as stated, what makes it a better guy for the slot than, say, Hooting Mandrills? Will trample be more consistently relevant than an 'extra' ability and a point of toughness?
Removing Treasure Cruise from the cardpool puts a little more play in the wheel wherein Delve is concerned, so I think it's a good idea to look at a lot of the Delve offerings again. I do think that the Delve critters are worth strong consideration, since on the whole they are so closely related to creatures that are commonly run anyway that unless there's a major speed difference - Delver of Secrets vs. Sultai Scavenger for example is not at all a similar comparison - they may operate as a way to directly or indirectly address common removal and threats. Shrinking a Goyf with your own 4/4 or 4/5 is probably good; playing a cheap creature that doesn't care a damn about Abrupt Decay is probably also good.
The reason that I see him as better than Mandrills is only due to that extra toughness. The ability to shrink goyfs is a good one, but that ability is also just gravy. So the criteria that we need in a creature is one that can block goyf and survive. Mandrills one on one still loses to goyf while Tasigur is goyf's equal.
Delver of Secrets vs. Sultai Scavenger is not a similar comparison as Delver will be attacking, most likely a full turn earlier than the Scavenger, while Tasigur will probably be attacking at the same time as Goyf.
Although I do agree and reiterate - that people should ignore Tasigur's ability - it is only gravy. Treat it like a PW's ultimate. Nice to have, but often unused.
his biggest problem in legacy is Karakas, but he seems worth testing.
You're trading vulnerability to Karakas for immunity against Abrupt Decay.
I ran 1 copy of Tasigur in my BUG Delver list that performed well in a local tournament this past weekend: I took 3rd place out of 34, and likely would have won if not for awful mana flood in my semi-finals match. He only showed up a few times, but was awesome in those instances.
Any Goyf deck that has access to black mana can realistically run 1-2 copies easily to increase threat density. Costing only one mana is huge against a Stifle/Daze/Wasteland environment, as is dodging Abrupt Decay (or Counterbalance, Pernicious Deed, Engineered Explosives, Spell Snare, etc.). It's easy to bring him down on turn 3, often with only needing to tap one land which gives you other options that turn.
I mentally took note of the times where I cast Tasigur and compared it to the alternative if I had Tombstalker instead -- in almost every instance save maybe one (against DNT that had Karakas and Serra Avengers), Tasigur was simply better. I think that he's a great card to have if you expect to run into a fair amount of RUG and BUG decks. He actually isn't too bad against White decks either as he maintains his P/T post-Rest in Peace and can also occasionally provide card advantage in the late game.
Beyond being Goyf #5-6 in BUG, I think the more interesting role Tasigur plays is providing non-green decks the option of playing a 'Pseudo-Goyf'. Grixis or even just straight UB Delver could use him, and other decks like Esper could run some copies alongside DRS and Stoneforge Mystic. He's arguably *better* here, since these decks otherwise don't care about their graveyard, and Tasigur's Delve could be strategically used to shrink opposing Tarmogoyfs or DRS targets.
I'm guessing there will probably be a handful more Delve creatures in the final set of the Khans block, but so far Tasigur is the most promising for Legacy.
edit: Just wanted to mention Gurmag Angler as an option for those who are concerned with Karakas, Legendary, and the extra 1 power. However I think Tasigur's lower casting cost and late-game ability make him the better option for most decks.
@wcm8: Thanks for actually trying him out! Knew other people probably had the same ideas about him. Do you feel he is better alongside Goyf or by himself in non Goyf decks. I feel that having him as gofy 5-6 might harm your own goyf's too much, and perhaps cloud your decks with essentially vanilla creatures?
Yeah, excellent to hear of that kind of success with the deck.
It's kind of an easy-out but "it's a meta call" seems fair, right -- are you going to get Karakas'd out of keeping him in play? Might want to look at a more different Delve thing.
@wcm8 - I may have missed your saying so but did his ability ever matter for you?
IMO he fits in the Dark Confidant slots rather than next to them. Junk and Jund run more lands due to consistency issues and often fall in the 6+ mana range or discarding loads of mana to Lily by the end of the game.
In the Junk thread I was mostly treating it as an upgrade since he's a beater and a good topdeck as opposed to a 2/1. With 5 mana you get a card and a 4/5. The card choice by your opponent is hardly relevant since:
-You just Delve'd
-You get a non-land card in legacy. It's CA that is *likely* high quality
-He'll be run next to DRS in almost any realistic scenario
I've been trying to get people excited about him for two weeks with few bites. For some reason people respond more to success in standard than actual legacy players trying to talk about it; but w/e.
The fact that he's splash-black instead of double and the 4/5 is very relevant for blocking Goyfs while being much easier to slot next to a TNN or similar. He's firmly midrange, but I honestly think he'll make a splash since he can start getting you cards right away while not interfering with counterspells and gumming up the board quite well.
This seems as if it could take the Tombstalker slot in those old Team America decks. In fact, I see this as Tarmogoyf 5-7 in any deck that already plays Tarmogoyf.
This looks like a very good card to me. I imagine the engine on it will be a fun mechanic. It forces interesting decisions with its own delve as well as stuff with Brainstorm and Top. I especially would like to see this with courser of kruphix.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
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Dragons of Tarkir will have Dash and Bolster as the only returning mechanics. The other three factions will have new mechanics for them.
Could Tasigur and Hooting Mandrils possibly be something to help make Grisly Salvage a viable card? Perhaps enable a Vengevine strategy?
Interestingly, even if your yard is empty, casting Grisly Salvage will let you cast Tasigur for one afterward. However, I think the test for whether you want Tasigur instead of (or in addition to) Tarmogoyf is whether you can activate his ability. Cards like Grim Lavamancer and/or DRS can let you curate your 'yard to ensure you only get back what you want.
Is it good? Probably not. It seems fun, though.
Think I'd generally rather have flying or trample. Unless you have something like Library or Top going, or the draw ability on this guy seems too inconsistent. Most of the time it's probably going to be land, but there's definitely the opportunity to occasionally screw yourself. Opponent has Bridge in play and you flop Decay and Goyf...guess what you're getting?
I guess it could also be alright if you're otherwise taking advantage of the GY...Snapcaster, Loam, Souls...something. Maybe he'd work in Zombardment? I just really want that to be a thing again.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Tasigur specifies "nonland" in his return clause.
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