Which card(s) do you want unbanned? (No discussion, only voting)

[Searys]

I didn't even knew that goblin recruiter was banned and honestly, if it was unbanned that will have absolutely no effect on legacy (imho) the chain goblin deck is so bad it's hilarious anybody can even think playing it seriously (some peoples laughted about playing WGD combo, the combo is clearly more powerful than just... that.)

The card itself is indeed good, but goblin would still be a tier 3 deck with no chances to go higher.

[Tourach]

I didn't even knew that goblin recruiter was banned and honestly, if it was unbanned that will have absolutely no effect on legacy (imho) the chain goblin deck is so bad it's hilarious anybody can even think playing it seriously (some peoples laughted about playing WGD combo, the combo is clearly more powerful than just... that.)

The card itself is indeed good, but goblin would still be a tier 3 deck with no chances to go higher.

Goblins is Tier 2 even now. In the hands of a competent pilot it has even to positive matchups against Miracles as well as most fair decks and game against the unfair decks. Its strength lies in explosiveness coupled with the ability to recharge after removal. Even a Terminus won't do unless you follow up with an Entreat soon after.

That being said, the question in this thread is wether Recruiter helps the deck too much. I don't see it helping much in the bad matchups like Storm. It is too slow for that. It might however make good matchups even better.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I don't see it helping much in the bad matchups like Storm. It is too slow for that. It might however make good matchups even better.

Very much this.

DRS and SFM made good matchups worse for Goblins. Unbanning Recruiter seems like it would let Goblins gain back some ground.

[MaximumC]

Very much this.

DRS and SFM made good matchups worse for Goblins. Unbanning Recruiter seems like it would let Goblins gain back some ground.

I think the initial problem was not getting value out of your Ringleaders or any such silliness, but that Recruiter is an instant-kill with Belcher in a Goblin deck. Are we comfortable giving Goblins a combo finish like that?

[Dice_Box]

I think the initial problem was not getting value out of your Ringleaders or any such silliness, but that Recruiter is an instant-kill with Belcher in a Goblin deck. Are we comfortable giving Goblins a combo finish like that?

It costs more mana than the Food Chain kill but is easier to set up. I do not see an issue with Belcher hear, plus Food Chain is a better card if you draw it without the Recruiter.

[maharis]

I think the initial problem was not getting value out of your Ringleaders or any such silliness, but that Recruiter is an instant-kill with Belcher in a Goblin deck. Are we comfortable giving Goblins a combo finish like that?

the deck has to find and resolve a 4-mana artifact, then resolve recruiter, then activate belcher. They would be just as well off running RIP-helm.

I think the real reason was the amount of time it takes to resolve Recruiter. The card is now the only non-ante creature on the legacy banned list and both it and Worldgorger are more annoying than dangerous.

[death]

I think the real reason was the amount of time it takes to resolve Recruiter. The card is now the only non-ante creature on the legacy banned list and both it and Worldgorger are more annoying than dangerous.

Recruiter and Hermit Druid.

[Ace/Homebrew]

the deck has to find and resolve a 4-mana artifact, then resolve recruiter, then activate belcher. They would be just as well off running RIP-helm.

I agree with you here.

I think the real reason was the amount of time it takes to resolve Recruiter.

Can you support this statement with anything from Wizards? Cause it really doesn't sound right.
There are only about 10 different goblins in a Vial Goblins deck...

If you cast a Recruiter, you have a pile in mind. A goblin player using Recruiter probably takes less time stacking goblins in a round than a Miracles player spends spinning Top.

[from Cairo]

RE: Goblin Recruiter

Can you support this statement with anything from Wizards?

This is what I could dig up on Recruiter from the times of the format split and it's banning in old Extended:

What's on there [the banned list]:
...
Cards that are/were banned in Extended: Not every card that has ever been banned in Extended is banned in this new format, but we felt the most powerful ones had no place here. These include Earthcraft, Goblin Recruiter, Hermit Druid, Land Tax, Oath of Druids, Replenish, and newly exiled Skullclamp and Metalworker. With “1.5” now a little less like Vintage and a little more like Extended, it makes sense that the banned list is a compromise between the two. Most of these cards are very cheap combo enablers that are hard to defend against.
...

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ate-2003-09-03

Goblin Recruiter
Goblin Recruiter's ability to stack an arbitrarily large portion of your deck allows goblin-based combo decks to kill as early as turn 2. That's too fast for a healthy environment and the Recruiter is one of several casualties of our effort to eliminate realistic turn 2 kills from the environment.

http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/mag...om/feature/189

Goblin Recruiter

Goblin Recruiter
Goblin Recruiter plays a completely unique role in two different combo decks: Food Chain and Goblin Charbelcher decks both required him before they could pull off their combo. In addition, its synergy with Goblin Ringleader was remarkable and probably could still be abused in some other way even if Food Chain and Charbelcher didn’t exist. Thus, we all agreed pretty quickly that the Recruiter had to go. We talked about the fact that it’s still possible to build Charbelcher decks–-in fact, it was the Mana Severance/Charbelcher decks that did the best in New Orleans, not the Recruiter/Charbelcher versions. However, we took Tinker, Ancient Tomb, and Grim Monolith out of the Mana Severance decks and we think that’s enough to knock them down to size. Without Tinker, Severance plus Charbelcher costs a total of nine mana, and it requires seven on the same turm if you want to play around artifact removal spells. Maybe it’ll still be good, but without Monolith or Tinker or Ancient Tomb I don’t think those decks will be overpowered. (Note that this is by no means the only 2-card “I win” combo in Extended. Pandemonium plus Saproling Burst has been sitting there for years and no one has managed to do much with it.)

http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Mag...om/daily/rb100

Nothing about the time consumption, though the Extended Announcement does reference "stacking an arbitrarily large portion of one's deck". The conversation is interesting, maybe someone else can dig up more on it.

[Julian23]

"That's too fast for [...] our effort to eliminate realistic turn 2 kills from the environment."

>10 years later:

[LeoCop 90]

I voted for recruiter too because i'm pretty sure it is safe, it would give new life to an archetype that a lot of people love, and , most importantly, because goblins is my favorite deck and i don't want to spend the rest of my life looking at spoilers and waiting for wizard to print a new overpowered goblins to make the archetype good again

[Lemnear]

I voted for recruiter too because i'm pretty sure it is safe, it would give new life to an archetype that a lot of people love, and , most importantly, because goblins is my favorite deck and i don't want to spend the rest of my life looking at spoilers and waiting for wizard to print a new overpowered goblins to make the archetype good again

And I want to play Necro Trix again because I enjoyed it so much like many old school players and Mind's Desire was a popular Extended deck people enjoyed...

Sometimes I wonder if you guys actually ever played against Recruiter in a tournament or if this is the mere talk of people who start after Ravnica and never saw the decks of old and interactions that fed those decks, which think Griselbrand is fine but Bargain is broken which is laughable. I doubt those people were ever forced into a draw by Sharazard or Goblin Recruiter if their opponent counted cards, looked through yards, took notes, stacks 15 cards, looks at notes again, adjust pile, shuffles ... just to repeat the procedure right the next turn and you keep discussing with half the store and the Judge why they don't kick the guy for slowplay.

Edit: mind that Doomsday can't be really used to Stack the deck several times within a game and does create much smaller piles.

[LOLWut]

Just a reminder to play nice so we can have nice things If that can't be done, shhhhhhhhh

[Chatto]

Voted for Goblin Recruiter, because I just like the little Green Men.

EDIT; and no, I haven't played it on a tournament, and yes, slowplay is killing... But hey, give me a chance to play it and perhaps I really hate it and won't play Goblin Recruiter at all.

[M+1]

I doubt those people were ever forced into a draw by Sharazard or Goblin Recruiter

[Searys]

The slowplay argument is stupid... Let's ban lim duls vault, doomsday, sensei's divining top because 3 players out of 1000 actually slow play with it... Please...

For shahrazad it's different, it's actually too long to make sub games, that's a fact.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Isnt it odd that they unbanned WGD who has a greater potential to draw/drag out games?

[Sandro95]

Isnt it odd that they unbanned WGD who has a greater potential to draw/drag out games?

The issue isn't with drawing individual games, but matches going to time and ending up a draw. If you draw the game on turn 2 with a reanimator deck, you're still propably fine time-wise.

Resolving a Goblin Recruiter shouldn't take too long when you're free to combo kill your opponent. Resolving one properly while trying to play around multiple combinations of disruption that your opponent could have would be much more time consuming.

[keys]

Mana Drain

[Humphrey]

I voted for all but Recruiter. I think all of them are ok right now, but Recruiter is too timeconsuming.