[Primer] R/G Lands

[snorlaxcom]

The issue with Grove is that it kills your own Explorations.

I think Fracture is probably better, but I'd have to expect a lot of Blood Moons / Counterbalances to want either of those cards

I had Fracture for Omni meta, but with enough Lands strategies in your meta it is solid to deny the opponent of their fastbonds/libraries while being aggressive and proactive with your mana.

[Sibelius]

On Tranquil Thicket x2 Main

Remember it not only helps vs Deathrite but is the way you play around Vendillion Clique taking loam from your hand. Draw in the draw step, Thicket main phase, replace with a dredge, hold priority and cast Loam.

I can fit 1 Bog / Karakas (depends day to day, more Oops or SNS) and 1 Ghost quarter in my main currently because I run 3 fetches and 3 Depths.

Another option I have tried is going up to 61 cards. Someone much cleverer than me can do the maths, but opening hands did not feel significantly worse because of the extra card (something like a 1% lower chance of having t1 green because of the 61st card. This was before the new Mulligan)
Because we run 8 tutors I feel the opportunity cost of having access game 1 to extra silver bullets vs Dredge, Sneak and Show, Reanimator, Oops All Spells, PIF Storm and the R/G lands mirror is ok.

Thoughts ?

Sib

[gigapatrick]

Merry Thanksgiving to those in the U.S. And merry day to those not.

Another video.

Building a Fortress #63

[Cfetchcaviar]

On Tranquil Thicket x2 Main

Remember it not only helps vs Deathrite but is the way you play around Vendillion Clique taking loam from your hand. Draw in the draw step, Thicket main phase, replace with a dredge, hold priority and cast Loam.

I can fit 1 Bog / Karakas (depends day to day, more Oops or SNS) and 1 Ghost quarter in my main currently because I run 3 fetches and 3 Depths.

Another option I have tried is going up to 61 cards. Someone much cleverer than me can do the maths, but opening hands did not feel significantly worse because of the extra card (something like a 1% lower chance of having t1 green because of the 61st card. This was before the new Mulligan)
Because we run 8 tutors I feel the opportunity cost of having access game 1 to extra silver bullets vs Dredge, Sneak and Show, Reanimator, Oops All Spells, PIF Storm and the R/G lands mirror is ok.

Thoughts ?

Sib

61 is not optimal. I ran 61 for a third taiga for a while. It's greedy but doable

[Darkgobs]

61 is not optimal. I ran 61 for a third taiga for a while. It's greedy but doable

In a toolbox deck like Land, I would say that the 61 is totally fine. You get more than you loose by playing this extra card since you've got tutors and see a lot more cards than other decks thanks to dredge. But a lot of magic players tend to be superstitious, and stick to their 60, even if the maths are indeed negligible. ;-)

The question of having both Karakas and Bog in your maindeck is another debate, since they can be totally useless in some match-up. Not much to do with the 61th card-question.

[barcode]

In a toolbox deck like Land, I would say that the 61 is totally fine. You get more than you loose by playing this extra card since you've got tutors and see a lot more cards than other decks thanks to dredge. But a lot of magic players tend to be superstitious, and stick to their 60, even if the maths are indeed negligible. ;-)

The question of having both Karakas and Bog in your maindeck is another debate, since they can be totally useless in some match-up. Not much to do with the 61th card-question.

Fundamentally this is a combo deck which means we need specific cards to win. Diluting the chance of drawing the cards is ill advised.

[hyp3r1on]

Fundamentally this is a combo deck which means we need specific cards to win. Diluting the chance of drawing the cards is ill advised.

I actually respectfully disagree with this. Because of the toolbox nature of the deck and the amount of tutors you have at your disposal running a 61-card rg lands list is perfectly reasonable for a smaller event where you know the meta.

Adding in an extra taiga or fetchland accomplishes nothing, but if you know half the room is on miracles - throw in a worm harvest. Half the room is on burn - throw in a zuran orb. The value of having a key toolbox card in a known meta game outweighs the slight value lost of playing with a 61-card deck. But if you're going to do it, make sure you have a super solid 60-card core and no cuts can be made.

[Rivfader]

Regarding maindecking Karakas and/or Bojuka Bog, I've had little success in beating fast combo game1 through these cards (if I beat them preboard, it's usually through a quick token). Because I usually mulligan or keep hands game1 based on having access to loam (pref with exploration), as I suppose every player does, whereas having crop rotation (or gamble, but versus fast combo it's usually too slow) is secondary to having loam. So often when playing a game1 versus Storm, Reanimator, S&T, ... , I had loam but no croprotation. Game 2 is different ofcourse, when your keeps will be based on having hate/tutors/..., instead of loam.
So because of how we mulligan, I think the value of maindecked silverbullet lands is lower in reality than it seems in theory, especially versus fast combo.

[Admiral Nobeard]

Regarding maindecking Karakas and/or Bojuka Bog, I've had little success in beating fast combo game1 through these cards (if I beat them preboard, it's usually through a quick token). Because I usually mulligan or keep hands game1 based on having access to loam (pref with exploration), as I suppose every player does, whereas having crop rotation (or gamble, but versus fast combo it's usually too slow) is secondary to having loam. So often when playing a game1 versus Storm, Reanimator, S&T, ... , I had loam but no croprotation. Game 2 is different ofcourse, when your keeps will be based on having hate/tutors/..., instead of loam.
So because of how we mulligan, I think the value of maindecked silverbullet lands is lower in reality than it seems in theory, especially versus fast combo.

If I know I'm facing a fast combo deck, I'll usually mull until I hit a Rotation or Gamble first. The rest of the cards in my hand vary as well, and decide whether I keep or not. For example: if I know I'm playing Storm, I'll mull until I hit either Thorn or Rotation. While Rotation into Bog is not that good against storm, it helps a lot when I can Rotation to Bog in response to Past in Flames; you just have to wait until they decide to PiF. If your opponent does this, you Bog them right then. If I know the opponent doesn't use PiF, I skip the Bog and try to hit Thorn or Rotation into Tabernacle if they go Warrens. For me, the silver bullet lands are always my "oh shit" button where I need their effect there and now, no matter the cost. That's the main reason I keep Bog, Tabernacle, and Chasm mainboarded, their effect can hit hard and they serve a wide variety of purposes including all grave strategies, critter strats, and hard aggro/burn strats; Karakas is always in my side though, as the effect is too narrow.

[Rivfader]

If I know I'm facing a fast combo deck, I'll usually mull until I hit a Rotation or Gamble first. The rest of the cards in my hand vary as well, and decide whether I keep or not. For example: if I know I'm playing Storm, I'll mull until I hit either Thorn or Rotation. While Rotation into Bog is not that good against storm, it helps a lot when I can Rotation to Bog in response to Past in Flames; you just have to wait until they decide to PiF. If your opponent does this, you Bog them right then. If I know the opponent doesn't use PiF, I skip the Bog and try to hit Thorn or Rotation into Tabernacle if they go Warrens. For me, the silver bullet lands are always my "oh shit" button where I need their effect there and now, no matter the cost. That's the main reason I keep Bog, Tabernacle, and Chasm mainboarded, their effect can hit hard and they serve a wide variety of purposes including all grave strategies, critter strats, and hard aggro/burn strats; Karakas is always in my side though, as the effect is too narrow.

I agree with everything you write. However, we're starting from a different point of view, as I am referring to a game1 situation versus an unknown deck/player, where you already know what the opponent plays (due to already having played the first game, or simply knowing the opponents deck beforehand).
As I usually mull for having access to loam game 1, I have far less chance of having croprotation (or gamble although it's slow) as well to get me Karakas/Bog.

[Admiral Nobeard]

I agree with everything you write. However, we're starting from a different point of view, as I am referring to a game1 situation versus an unknown deck/player, where you already know what the opponent plays (due to already having played the first game, or simply knowing the opponents deck beforehand).
As I usually mull for having access to loam game 1, I have far less chance of having croprotation (or gamble although it's slow) as well to get me Karakas/Bog.

Ohh, gotcha. I get what you mean now. Isn't that usually the best option for game 1 though, get an accelerant, then loam repeatedly as often as possible? That's usually my game plan. I'll usually mull until I hit an Exploration or my Manabond and then get Loam as fast as possible, then dredge as fast as I can. I think the fastest I've gone is Manabond T1, dump hand on field and Loam into yard, and dredge freely after that, cycling Thicket and dredging every chance I get. Have you ever had the nuts hand like that before?

[Rivfader]

Ohh, gotcha. I get what you mean now. Isn't that usually the best option for game 1 though, get an accelerant, then loam repeatedly as often as possible? That's usually my game plan. I'll usually mull until I hit an Exploration or my Manabond and then get Loam as fast as possible, then dredge as fast as I can. I think the fastest I've gone is Manabond T1, dump hand on field and Loam into yard, and dredge freely after that, cycling Thicket and dredging every chance I get. Have you ever had the nuts hand like that before?

Yes, thats exactly what I mean. G1 we prioritise on having loam (and accelerant) above anything else, including crop rotation. Which means we usually only incidentally have crop rotation G1 to get Karakas or Bog, which makes it more unlikely to use it as a silverbullet against fast combo in game1.
Which is a argument for me in a discussion if we should maindeck Karakas and/or Bog.

[Admiral Nobeard]

Yes, thats exactly what I mean. G1 we prioritise on having loam (and accelerant) above anything else, including crop rotation. Which means we usually only incidentally have crop rotation G1 to get Karakas or Bog, which makes it more unlikely to use it as a silverbullet against fast combo in game1.
Which is a argument for me in a discussion if we should maindeck Karakas and/or Bog.

I like to main Bog just in case I do end up needing it. Bog has a lot more uses: flashback, reanimator, dredge, delve spells, or any graveyard interaction is stopped. I always keep Karakas in my side because I only have to bring it in against SnS or Reanimator, which are about the only decks that play legendaries mainboard and can play them regularly.

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #64

Enjoy.

[Alex_UNLIMITED]

Where I can find updated sideboarding strategies?

[Admiral Nobeard]

Where I can find updated sideboarding strategies?

Your best bet is usually here or MTG Salvation for updates. However, the sideboard has changed very little in the past few months, aside from Jarvis Yu's addition of 2 Chalice of the Void to fight Delver decks and every 1 drop in legacy. For me, the general rule of boards is to build it based on A: Your meta or what you expect the meta to be, and B: General hose cards that work.

The majority of boards today include 4 Krosan Grip, as they fight any artifact and enchantment, no questions asked. Two Choke is the go-to blue hoser, although I myself have been testing Boil and Boiling Seas to kill blue decks dead. Aside from that, you'd just need to include silver bullet lands you wouldn't normally want in your main, along with what depends on your meta. Most people run 3-Ball, I run Ensnaring Bridge to fight off the mass of aggro in my local area. This is your typical sideboard though, as most of what I've used or seen:

4 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Choke
2 Trinisphere
1 Karakas
2 Sylvan Library
1 Manabond

For strats: Choke, Library, and Manabond are used against control decks for mana denial, card advantage, and large acceleration, respectively. Trinisphere and Sphere are used against combo, and sometimes Manabond is used to get ahead and drop balls or spheres early game. Karakas is mainly brought in against SnS and reanimator decks. This is my change for my version.

Control: +2 Choke, +2 Library, +0-4 K-Grip (depending on deck); -4 Crop Rotation, -2-3 Maze of Ith
Combo: +3 Sphere, +2 Trinisphere; -1 Manabond, -3 P-Fire, -1 Worm Harvest
Aggro/Critter Strats: +1 Crucible of Worlds, +2 Ensnaring Bridge, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Molten Vortex; -1 Worm Harvest, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Stage, -2 Gamble, -1 Manabond

[Chatto]

Ensnaring Bridge? That is a weird SB-slot. How do you win when EB is out? And doesn't it conflict with your hand-size/ manadenial?

[Admiral Nobeard]

Ensnaring Bridge? That is a weird SB-slot. How do you win when EB is out? And doesn't it conflict with your hand-size/ manadenial?

There's a lot of aggro in my area, so Bridge is necessary for a lot of games and I usually end up winning with P-Fire over and over gain, very slowly. I have started to bring in K-Grip along with Bridge to EOT Grip the Bridge and make Marit Lage, then swing for win. It's never conflicted with my hand size as I'm usually running 2-3 lands out per turn or usually only keeping one card in hand (Thicket to instantly dredge loam if necessary) for surprises. While Bridge is awkward in the RG version compared to the RUG version, it helps me survive if I don't have a quick combo when I'm surrounded by Goblins, D&T, and 12 Post.

[Cfetchcaviar]

There's a lot of aggro in my area, so Bridge is necessary for a lot of games and I usually end up winning with P-Fire over and over gain, very slowly. I have started to bring in K-Grip along with Bridge to EOT Grip the Bridge and make Marit Lage, then swing for win. It's never conflicted with my hand size as I'm usually running 2-3 lands out per turn or usually only keeping one card in hand (Thicket to instantly dredge loam if necessary) for surprises. While Bridge is awkward in the RG version compared to the RUG version, it helps me survive if I don't have a quick combo when I'm surrounded by Goblins, D&T, and 12 Post.

I do not agree with this strategy. We have better outs.

[Whitefaces]

Yeah, Glacial Chasm?

Bridge seems awful with Loam. Just means you HAVE to have an Exploration/Manabond at all times.