[Primer] R/G Lands

[snorlaxcom]

Any thoughts about this card:

Pacification Array {1}

Artifact - Uncommon

2,T: Tap target artifact or creature.

Tapping creatures pre-combat? Or too cute? 2-mana activation is perhaps a bit much.

is sneak and show that bad?

[Alexeezay]

What do you think about this:
//Main
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Crop Rotation
3 Dark Depths
4 Exploration
1 Forest
4 Gamble
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Life from the Loam
1 Manabond
3 Maze of Ith
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
4 Rishadan Port
1 Seismic Assault
3 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills

//Sideboard
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Seismic Assault
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Tireless Tracker

- I cut Glacial Chasm since it's the card I side out the most. It's never that great (sure it can save you vs Infect, Merfolk or Elves but they're good matchups already) because it's almost only good when you're in a good position, aka Exploration + Loam going. And even then it's not necessary unless TNNs are beating you down and you haven't found the Depths combo.
- I like the package of 4 Waste 4 Port 2 GQ. That way, cou can cover both angles of mana denial really well, GQing to shuffle and lock out, Porting to help in the early stages of the game.
- Seismic Assault is for D&T mostly, but are nice in matchups like Elves,Jund,Miracles,Stoneforge.dec. I've tested both Assault and Vortex a lot, and Vortex just binds too much mana with the R: activations. Assault has won me games out of nowhere, even multiple times having all my Loams extracted. I just kept drawing lands or drawing more with Tracker to control the board and finish the game.
- Bojuka Bog main is for the Reanimator/combo meta.
- I could see getting in the 4th Dark Depths somewhere (maybe by cutting the 4th Port) or Tranquil Thicket in place of Canopy...not sure.

[Ingo]

- Seismic Assault is for D&T mostly, but are nice in matchups like Elves,Jund,Miracles,Stoneforge.dec. I've tested both Assault and Vortex a lot, and Vortex just binds too much mana with the R: activations. Assault has won me games out of nowhere, even multiple times having all my Loams extracted. I just kept drawing lands or drawing more with Tracker to control the board and finish the game.

Seismic Assault is definitely the better card on the battlefield, but you have to compare CC's as well, as RRR vs R is a huge difference. By the time you have RRR for Assault, you could already activate vortex 3 times a turn, and have cast it T1. So I prefer this speed of Vortex, as it impacts the first turns where Assault does not.

[Chatto]

is sneak and show that bad?

Not really, but it could always use some improvement. However, it could be too cute. I was not thinking about SnS, but flying blockers in general, really.

[Wiktul]

Hello everyone :)

I've just finished reading the whole primer (and all posts written here, over two weeks of highly entertaining lecture ). I have to thank you all for discussing ideas, updating your results and lists, reporting games etc. That's priceless source of knowledge for a pure Lands-beginner such as myself :)

Yet, I have a question about specific card that has never been even mentioned here by anyone, what is quite suprising for me, as I fell in love with it from the first sight. The card I'm talking about is Petrified Field

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...iverseid=30014


If I am no wrong, this allows us to make a couple of really handy tricks, like:

- returning land that has been destroyed / discarded to Mox / discarded to Gamble / sacrificed to Crop Rotation / sacrificed as a combo piece that was somehow disrupted (Stiffle, Swords etc.)
- increase the possibility of saving a card tutored from Gamble
- makes opponent's sandbagged Wasteland a little bit less potent
- saves valuable land from Extraction, or Leyline if Loam is not an option (opponen's turn, Extracion in response etc.)
- return already used Tranquil to instantly use it agian, igniting Loam (single or multiples) another time
- sac Glacial Chasm without required 2 Thespian's and mana, when we can't afford to pay for 3rd or 4th upkeep
- using it instead of Loam when it's absent or jammed (Chalice, Countertop, Prelate)
- gives us another way out from DRS, when we need to cast Loam, but are jammed by DRS's response
- more mana denial with Exploration and single Wasteland / Ghost Quarter

Considering all this and a little bit more (entering untapped, producing mana on it's own - colourless, yet still usefull), i think it can be used as 61 card / instead of second Tranquil / 3rd Maze / 4th fetch / Karakas that does not fit specific meta etc.

Or... Maybe I am wrong indeed and this is so crappy, horrendously stupid idea that nobody had ever wanted to mention it in the first place?

Edit:

Aaaand latest news from Aehter Revolt:

http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/h...ervention.html

Finnaly, uncounterable (with Boseju) answer to Swords or some blinks into Marit? :)

[Ingo]

Hello everyone :)

I've just finished reading the whole primer (and all posts written here, over two weeks of highly entertaining lecture ). I have to thank you all for discussing ideas, updating your results and lists, reporting games etc. That's priceless source of knowledge for a pure Lands-beginner such as myself :)

Yet, I have a question about specific card that has never been even mentioned here by anyone, what is quite suprising for me, as I fell in love with it from the first sight. The card I'm talking about is Petrified Field

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...iverseid=30014


If I am no wrong, this allows us to make a couple of really handy tricks, like:

- returning land that has been destroyed / discarded to Mox / discarded to Gamble / sacrificed to Crop Rotation / sacrificed as a combo piece that was somehow disrupted (Stiffle, Swords etc.)
- increase the possibility of saving a card tutored from Gamble
- makes opponent's sandbagged Wasteland a little bit less potent
- saves valuable land from Extraction, or Leyline if Loam is not an option (opponen's turn, Extracion in response etc.)
- return already used Tranquil to instantly use it agian, igniting Loam (single or multiples) another time
- sac Glacial Chasm without required 2 Thespian's and mana, when we can't afford to pay for 3rd or 4th upkeep
- using it instead of Loam when it's absent or jammed (Chalice, Countertop, Prelate)
- gives us another way out from DRS, when we need to cast Loam, but are jammed by DRS's response
- more mana denial with Exploration and single Wasteland / Ghost Quarter

Considering all this and a little bit more (entering untapped, producing mana on it's own - colourless, yet still usefull), i think it can be used as 61 card / instead of second Tranquil / 3rd Maze / 4th fetch / Karakas that does not fit specific meta etc.

Or... Maybe I am wrong indeed and this is so crappy, horrendously stupid idea that nobody had ever wanted to mention it in the first place?

Edit:

Aaaand latest news from Aehter Revolt:

http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/h...ervention.html

Finnaly, uncounterable (with Boseju) answer to Swords or some blinks into Marit? :)

Hi Wiktul, welcome to Lands, and reading 175 pages of comments is quite something!

About Petrified Field, I actually don't think it is very good.
A big reason is that the card goes to your hand instead of the battlefield, so using it sets you back a landdrop.
Also, ideally you would croprotate for such a one-off card and if it's to get a specific land back from the yard, why not rotate directly for this specific landcard? It's biggest asset seems to me saving a land from extraction through croprotation, just like a canopy could save loam. It seems like a weaker loam-effect, and although you can rotate for it, I'd rather spend a 61'st card on a Crucible of Worlds or Sylvan Library for loamlike effects.

I also don't think the new card 'Heroic intervention' will see play either.
There is a similar card in not of this world, and it doesn't see play in Lands as there's loam to repeatedly replay the combo instead of protecting it (NOTW does sees play in Turbo Depths though, and perhaps Heroic Intervention will too as it protects pre-combo lands as well).

New ideas are interesting to discuss though, so don't let my negating comment prevent you from suggesting and asking something else!

[Dice_Box]

Petrified Field is not a card I like. I like the idea, and that is why I would run a Crucible in the side, but Fields is just too slow. Its not that the idea is not sound, but the question is always, "What are you cutting to add this". I do not think anything is weaker than Field and I would be hard pressed cutting something for it.

[djxstream]

Doesn't look like we're getting any game changing cards in this new set. (like vortex or tracker) BUT

http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/unbridledgrowth.html

I kinda love this. Throw it on a dark depths, ultimate value.

But i know it's not realistic as I can't picture what slot it replaces or if it's better that the other options to get these effects (riftstone portal/urborg or cycle lands)

[Morte]

Moreover, Abundant Growth is strictly better.

[filln]

Moreover, Abundant Growth is strictly better.

Unbridled Growth at least provides some protection for your Loams against Surgical though I guess?

[U_mage]

Good luck to the other GP Louisville attendees, see you in the top 8

[djxstream]

Moreover, Abundant Growth is strictly better.

i didnt even know that was a card. well then.

[Chatto]

Moreover, Abundant Growth is strictly better.

I disagree. At least you can sac Unbridled Growth.

Good luck to the other GP Louisville attendees, see you in the top 8

Good luck indeed! Too bad there's no coverage

[Morte]

I disagree. At least you can sac Unbridled Growth

Sorry Chatto, maybe I'm not getting your point?



The new Growth is a nerfed Abundant Growth: it is basically the same card except that you have to sacrifice it to draw a card, while the original one cantrips on EtB, leaving the aura in play. Am I missing something?

[Chatto]

The cantrip is nice indeed, but the ability to sac and draw a card, to me, is better. Imagine your Loam being targeted, and saving it by this sac-effect.

[Morte]

Thanks for the clarification, makes perfectly sense. It's a while I'm not playing Lands, I'm a little rusty

[U_mage]

Got my first day 2 with lands at 6-3

[Chatto]

Thanks for the clarification, makes perfectly sense. It's a while I'm not playing Lands, I'm a little rusty

No worries, you're welcome

Got my first day 2 with lands at 6-3

Congrats! Hope you will make a report.

[Wiktul]

I've been playing small local event (10 players). Last time was my first time with this deck (0-5) and I was kinda like "I have no idea WTF I'm doing". This time things went a little bit differently.


Land (35)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3x Dark Depths
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Maze of Ith
1x Petrified Field
1x Riftstone Portal
4x Rishadan Port
2x Taiga
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
2x Wooded Foothills

Sorcery (9)
4x Gamble
4x Life from the Loam
1x Sylvan Scrying

Instant (8)
4x Crop Rotation
4x Punishing Fire

Enchantment (5)
4x Exploration
1x Manabond

Artifact (4)
4x Mox Diamond

Sideboard (15)
1x Akroma, Angel of Fury
2x Chalice of the Void
3x Krosan Grip
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Pithing Needle
1x Primeval Titan
2x Sphere of Resistance
2x Volcanic Fallout
2x Warping Wail


Round 1: Merfolks

G1 - I started with solid hand: Mox, Stage, Loam, Gamble, fetch, Port and a forest or some other land. He started with Vial and Curse Catcher. Not much to report, I made Marit turn 4, he responded with Phantasmal Image from Vial I couldn't get P-fire to target it and he would overrun me anyway.

G2 - My Chalice on 1 slows him down a little bit, but I couldn't get the combo from Loam (despite having 3 Stages in play or hand). He keeps hitting me with Mishra and other fish, I keep defending myself with single Maze and Loaming with Boseju (he has hand full of counterspells, he discards merfolks at his end step while I'm holding him a little bit lower with Port). I couldn't get single Exploration needed, so I could loop Chasm Lock, and I had to exchange Glacial for Stage or another of two Stages, looping it with Loam from Boseju. Eventually, after 10 or more loooong turns, I manage to make single Marit that meets Echoing Truth. No more Depths, nor Gamble or Rotation and I die anyway with his creatures unable to attack.


Round 2: 4c delver

G1 - I have fast hand with combo, exploration and mox. He dies turn 4, nothing more to say.

G2 - He starts with Tropical and DRS, seems a little bit more comfortable. I start with Wasteland - Mox (fetch) - exploration - Tabernacle, Waste his Tropical, go. He desperately tries to save his shaman, tapping him for his Tropical eventually playing cantrips from additional lands, that are wasted just after that. That's how it goes for next 3-4 turns, when I have token and more Ports in play than he has permanents.


Round 3: Death&Taxes

G1 - I'm playing against a friend of mine, so I know his build and his style. I start with good hand: Mox, exploration, P-fire, fetch, Loam, maze, grove. He starts with Vial, Mother of Runes eot (burned with PFire). I start Loaming aaaand.... Can't get even single land with 4 dredges Odds are not in my favour, I eventually get second Maze (after 5th dredge), but it's not enough. He has 3 creatures, double waste and port, so I don't want to waste more time.

G2 - Quite like before, I start to punish his creatures, he plays more carefully. I play Petrified Field, and Nissa, Vital Force, untaping and waiting. He plays RiP, I exchange Field for Depths in responce, go for Marit and 5/5 lands in case of Swords. Not much more to play, but my friend plays so slow, that time starts to flow backwards. Eventually he gives up.

G3 - I have very fast and cruel control over his single Cavern and Vial on 3. I waited if he will put something nasty eot with Fire in hand, but he didn't so I Gripped it in his draw step. Still, I'm very short of time (few times I was blaming myself for playing slow with this deck, but his each single land drops for eternity :/ ), so I have to decide - Nissa turn 3 and struggle to kill him with single land creatures, or combo with RiP. I tried second option, Marit eats Path and while he has nothing to play, I have just 2 turns left with him at full life. Draw.


Round 4 - elves

G1 - Marit turn 3, he complains that I did it in my turn, while he can always bounce it with some creature of his or easily ramp for Emrakul. Somehow, he does not, so he dies.

G2 - My chalice on 1, Marit turn 2. Yet he starts to ramp zylions of mana and quadrilions of creatures. He plays Green Sun Zenith despite Chalice, gets something like 9 creatures, with DRS and Faerie Macabre. I P-fire Macabre, strike with Marit, he eats Macabre with DRS. I could have burned him if my single R-mana source wasn't Grove and he will trample me with next turn

G3 - With this in mind, I'm going to be very mean this time. Mox, Exploration, Wasteland, Gamble for Tabernacle, Loam in hand. Go ahead, try to ramp this time. He tries to hit me with Relic of Progenitus, but I get what I need with Petrified Field. He gives up 2 turns later.


Round 5 - BUG delver

There were many draws and hard match-ups around (2x Miracle, Painter, D&T, 3x Delver), so if I would win this one, I would be first with 3-1-1.

G1 - I didn't know what he's playing, so I kept a hand with Mox, Exploration, Gamble, P-fire, Port, fetch and other land. Played acceleration, gamble for Loam to have everything in place, dropped Pfire. He plays Sea and DRS. I curse myself for carelessness and try to get another Fire instead of eaten-one. I did, but then I was facing Nemezis x2 and couldn't get anything solid.

G2 - Pfire on his DRS turn 1, then Sphere, wastelock with Loam from Boseju. The only thing he can do is to Surgical me - and that he does. P-Fire gets surgicaled first, Loam - second. Still, I'm to far ahead and too aware of such possibility, so I kill him without a single hit taken, getting myself at 10 with boseju and good compilation of dredge and draw. Marit for the kill.

G3 - I mulligan first hand with some sideboard cards with no color mana, I keep 6 with Exploration, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, P-fire, Grove and Loam. We both get nothing for long, long time, not to mention single battle over his DRS, that I eventually win, but nothing special goes for it (I've only eaten my own graveyard with Bojuka). He counters my Loam 5 times in a row, I can't get Boseju, Rotation nor Gamble, nor combo. He plays carefully around my wastelands, keeping fetches at board when they aren't needed. I'm not panicking though, with Krosan in hand at his Needle naming Stage and Volcanic Fallout waiting for his DRS or Delver, but he gets Angler and I don't have Maze. The game went so long and dull, that in the end he countered my Loam twice with FoW for mana, and the big ugly fish eats me finally.


All in all, I finished at 4th place. I'm really happy with this result, especially after two weeks of reading everything you guys discussed here and training with the deck each single day since my first, unremarkable performance. I wish I could play against miracles, because I have some good hate-board plan against them, but not today. I tried really hard to avoid Painter and I did (I couldn't loose to D&T and I didn't). The best ideas of my home-made alterations to deck were definitely Petrfied Field and Nissa, Vital Force. I will exchange 2x Volcanic Fallout for 2x Trieless Tracker, I can't kill Nemezis with them anyway, so I think I have to simply kill all delvers faster than they can put Nemezis into play and deal with fact, that we can't deal with Nemezis in play.

[The_Dingo]

I've been playing small local event (10 players). Last time was my first time with this deck (0-5) and I was kinda like "I have no idea WTF I'm doing". This time things went a little bit differently.

G2 - My Chalice on 1 slows him down a little bit, but I couldn't get the combo from Loam (despite having 3 Stages in play or hand). He keeps hitting me with Mishra and other fish, I keep defending myself with single Maze and Loaming with Boseju (he has hand full of counterspells, he discards merfolks at his end step while I'm holding him a little bit lower with Port). I couldn't get single Exploration needed, so I could loop Chasm Lock, so I have to exchange Glacial for Stage or another of two Stages, looping it with Loam from Boseju. Eventually, after 10 or more loooong turns, I still can't get Depths, nor Gamble or Rotation and I die anyway with his creatures unable to attack.

Thanks for the report and congrats on a good run with some interesting SB technology.

I thought I'd point our that merfolk is a MU where we don't want to bring in chalice OTV. They very frequently play 4 maindecked copies of their own, and the only 1 CMC spell in the deck is cursecatcher. In contrast, we like out 1 CMC spells quite a bit. Even if you had found a gamble, exploration, or crop rotation while hiding under chasm your own chalice would have countered it.