[Primer] R/G Lands

[Rivfader]

Did anyone get a chance to see David's Long updated lands list?

He won a tournament on Saturday that SnapCasters were streaming.

Apparently he was talking about how he found a good build with Grove and Decay in the main.

I haven't been able to find the list, if anyone finds it could you post it here.

If David is on this forum could you posted your list here? Thank you.

I searched for Snapcasters on Twitch and found the tourney you mentioned: https://www.twitch.tv/snapcasters/v/62340643. It seems he's back on Punishing Fire indeed. There are probably more vids of this tourney, but only watched this one. Didn't saw him talk about his list though (nor saw the list itself).

[CptHaddock]

I searched for Snapcasters on Twitch and found the tourney you mentioned: https://www.twitch.tv/snapcasters/v/62340643. It seems he's back on Punishing Fire indeed. There are probably more vids of this tourney, but only watched this one. Didn't saw him talk about his list though (nor saw the list itself).

At the end of the tournament he talks a little about the changes that he made. I'll find the exact time later, but for the most part he got rid of the molten vortexes and discard and is back on punishing fire and spheres.


edit: found it

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Haha, picked a random spot in the video to try and find something and found this beautiful play.

https://www.twitch.tv/snapcasters/v/62340643?t=6h34m

EDIT: Looks like the stream ends in the last match so if he was talking about it after that it may not have been recorded.

[CovenantElite30]

At the end of the tournament he talks a little about the changes that he made. I'll find the exact time later, but for the most part he got rid of the molten vortexes and discard and is back on punishing fire and spheres.


edit: found it

Thanks for finding the video.

Dumb question for the forum, is 3 maze of ith the required standard? I feel like 3 is too much?

[barcode]

Thanks for finding the video.

Dumb question for the forum, is 3 maze of ith the required standard? I feel like 3 is too much?

In a death and taxes heavy meta I'd want 3.

[Rivfader]

At the end of the tournament he talks a little about the changes that he made. I'll find the exact time later, but for the most part he got rid of the molten vortexes and discard and is back on punishing fire and spheres.


edit: found it

Thanks for the exact link, here he talks about the sideboard, which consists of
3 Confidants
4 Spheres
2 Thorns
1 Chalice
2 KGrips
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Karakas
1 Depths
And he cut a taiga, fetch and Thicket for the 3 Groves in the main.

[Chatto]

Thanks for the exact link, here he talks about the sideboard, which consists of
3 Confidants
4 Spheres
2 Thorns
1 Chalice
2 KGrips
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Karakas
1 Depths
And he cut a taiga, fetch and Thicket for the 3 Groves in the main.

Mr. Long is on maindeck AD, and no discard, correct?

Right now I'm trying the straight RG-build, with AD and discard in the SB. I was thinking about dropping Bob in favor of SoR (along 4 TS and 1 Duress), basically the opposite of this SB.

[Rivfader]

Mr. Long is on maindeck AD, and no discard, correct?

Right now I'm trying the straight RG-build, with AD and discard in the SB. I was thinking about dropping Bob in favor of SoR (along 4 TS and 1 Duress), basically the opposite of this SB.

We ran Lands so long without alternate cardadvantage, so I think you definitely can brew without Bob.

And yes, it seems there's no discard anymore in David Long's build. Having black for firstturn discard is very taxing for the manabase indeed. But his current build only differs in 1 less black source in comparison to his previous build. So, for example, swapping the one-off thicket for an additional bayou would balance it out again (alas, at the cost of some utility).
I like the discard very much, as the spheres are only really good versus Storm, and it seems that deck got hit hard by Eldrazi. So I'd prefer the flex of discard to handle other combo (or any other non-creature-based-strategy where you don't need all Pfire or maze).

[Emrakul503]

Does David ever posts his lists or tournament reports anywhere?

[Jaytron]

Hi all,

I'm super new to the deck. I started playtesting with Dark Lands in an effort to learn how to really stop the deck. That being said, the power of the deck has been sucking me in. For a newer player to the deck, is the basic RG Lands build better, or is Dark Lands fine?

Anther question: Most high level magic players mention Lands as one of, if not the, most powerful deck in legacy. If that's the case, why does it seem to miss out on DTB often? Is it just the cost of the deck that keeps it back? Tabernacle on paper, Ports in modo?

[Chatto]

Does David ever posts his lists or tournament reports anywhere?

In the past, he has put a report up here, but other than that...

Hi all,

I'm super new to the deck. I started playtesting with Dark Lands in an effort to learn how to really stop the deck. That being said, the power of the deck has been sucking me in. For a newer player to the deck, is the basic RG Lands build better, or is Dark Lands fine?

Anther question: Most high level magic players mention Lands as one of, if not the, most powerful deck in legacy. If that's the case, why does it seem to miss out on DTB often? Is it just the cost of the deck that keeps it back? Tabernacle on paper, Ports in modo?

Prices are high, and perhaps the biggest issue. I think that the black splash gives you more outs, and makes you more proactive (due AD, and discard). You probably trade in some explosiveness, but I like it so far. Not sure what build is best, both have their merits.

[Rivfader]

For a newer player to the deck, is the basic RG Lands build better, or is Dark Lands fine?
Anther question: Most high level magic players mention Lands as one of, if not the, most powerful deck in legacy. If that's the case, why does it seem to miss out on DTB often?

Prices are high, and perhaps the biggest issue. I think that the black splash gives you more out, and makes you more proactive (due discard). You probably trade in some explosiveness, but I like it so far. Not sure what build is best, both have their merits.

I see Abrupt Decay (which is preboard the difference between both) as a maindecked Krosan Grip (while it's still usable vs creatures). Dark Lands will be better against almost all matchups where you would postboard bring in Kgrips, matchups with gamedeterminating artifacts and enchantments. That's Miracles and Chalicedecks on top of my list.
But there's less overall synergy (no manabonds, Decays do not recur from the yard), making Dark Lands less explosive, which makes it a bit worse against the rest of the field.
As for why it isn't a DTB, I think it's price in combination with cards being not very transferrable to other decks. No blueshell fetches or duals, and Tabernacle isn't played in any other Tierdeck. And there is also a big gap in playstyle between other nonblue decks and this, as it's about the only prison-like tierstrategy left in Legacy.

[gigapatrick]

Just watched Long's interview about his new list. Have to say I do not get it. Discard seems like the absolute best thing about the black splash, and without it I definitely don't think Abrupt Decay is worth it.

[Rivfader]

Just watched Long's interview about his new list. Have to say I do not get it. Discard seems like the absolute best thing about the black splash, and without it I definitely don't think Abrupt Decay is worth it.

Maindeck Abrupt Decay also frees up slots in the 75 (in comparison to the 4 slots devoted to Krosan Grip in stock RG). In contrast, both Punishing Fire and Discard are demanding in slots, because the first demands Groves and the second sufficient black.
So if you want both Pfire and discard, you have to reconcile 3 Groves and 8 black lands (personally I even feel 9 is more appropriate) in the 75, and you have to cut down other utilitylands.

I am fan of discard, and have been experimenting with no spheres, 8x discard. But I did have to cut down a thicket and a maze for sufficient black...

[filln]

Haha, picked a random spot in the video to try and find something and found this beautiful play.

https://www.twitch.tv/snapcasters/v/62340643?t=6h34m

EDIT: Looks like the stream ends in the last match so if he was talking about it after that it may not have been recorded.

Wow. For those who haven't, watch the entirety of Game 2 against Sneak and Show. Long (on the draw) comes back from a Turn 1 Griselbrand that draws his opponent over half the deck: https://www.twitch.tv/snapcasters/v/62340643?t=6h23m

[CovenantElite30]

Side note and maybe this isn't the correct place to ask.

I'm in the process of "pimping" out my lands deck.

Could you guys post images of your "pimped" out lands deck?

[supremePINEAPPLE]

I know there have been a few gorgeous RUG decks posted in the pimp thread in the last couple of months. I was getting ready to try and convert to beta duals for RG but the RGb build has interrupted my plans because I definitely should not try and buy beta bayous and I can't have mismatched lands. It's the worst thing about the Dark Lands build!

[zombie_sky_diver]

Just watched Long's interview about his new list. Have to say I do not get it. Discard seems like the absolute best thing about the black splash, and without it I definitely don't think Abrupt Decay is worth it.

I have to agree with you here, even IF Discard isn't worth while, adding Black for just Decay doesn't seem to make it any better then strait up GR. Yea, Black is also there for Bob, but you have Sylvan Library in green if you need card advantage.

Its sounds like Long's argument against the Discard was not that it isn't worthy; that he mainly pointed out its very Taxing if you are in need of a T1 Discard... and I can agree. We need to find a balance.


I have a question that may sound silly, and something I have not tried. For the players who run Chalice in the SB, have you considered bringing it in VS. Miracles.

I know that sounds stupid, but after watching gigapatrick's videos this week (4 Miracle MU's, good god) I thought that if, IF you can land it before they assemble they're CounterTop Lock you put them is a worse position then yourself. After all, if they have the Lock out your not casting anything CMC 1 anyway. At least if you have a Chalice on 1 not only do you KO half their deck but stop their Swords.

Any thought on that? I plan to try it next I get to play. It would also make the SB Chalice more useful outside of the Storm MU.

[Djehuti]

I have to agree with you here, even IF Discard isn't worth while, adding Black for just Decay doesn't seem to make it any better then strait up GR. Yea, Black is also there for Bob, but you have Sylvan Library in green if you need card advantage.

Its sounds like Long's argument against the Discard was not that it isn't worthy; that he mainly pointed out its very Taxing if you are in need of a T1 Discard... and I can agree. We need to find a balance.


I have a question that may sound silly, and something I have not tried. For the players who run Chalice in the SB, have you considered bringing it in VS. Miracles.

I know that sounds stupid, but after watching gigapatrick's videos this week (4 Miracle MU's, good god) I thought that if, IF you can land it before they assemble they're CounterTop Lock you put them is a worse position then yourself. After all, if they have the Lock out your not casting anything CMC 1 anyway. At least if you have a Chalice on 1 not only do you KO half their deck but stop their Swords.

Any thought on that? I plan to try it next I get to play. It would also make the SB Chalice more useful outside of the Storm MU.

Bring it in. I've played miracles against chalice and the card is crippling, especially if SDT hasn't been deployed yet. The only card selection/advantage that is still available after a chalice on 1 is Jace and Predict.

[djxstream]

Wow. For those who haven't, watch the entirety of Game 2 against Sneak and Show. Long (on the draw) comes back from a Turn 1 Griselbrand that draws his opponent over half the deck: https://www.twitch.tv/snapcasters/v/62340643?t=6h23m

i always liked the spheres over discard. that game just proved it.