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Thread: [Primer] R/G Lands

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    [Primer] R/G Lands


    Discord server for Lands can be found here.

    A history lesson:
    Lands in Legacy is an odd deck to look at with a mix of older "Spell lands" and some newer toys, the deck historically has been more heavily banked in a control role, not a Combo one. The early history of Lands is the story of a deck born in the early fires of Ravnica. The deck came to be with the printing of what many now consider to be one of Wizards biggest Mistakes: the Dredge mechanic. But unlike many of the other Dredge cards that went on to spawn an unholy mix of terror and pain that would cause issues for all Eternal formats, one card stood out above the evil, a pure righteous gift that would offer both the fuel and the engine for another new deck. This card was Life from the Loam.

    Lands in these early days was very much a control deck with the plan being to lock an opponent out of the game with Land Destruction or recursion of Engineered Explosives. Once control was seized Man lands, Barbarian Ring and even Mindslaver could be used to finish off a game. The issue with this though was that slow and grindy finishes added yet more time to end games that were already slow to start with and should the Lands player find themselves losing the first game and winning the second, there was often little time for a third. But help was on its way.

    On the 19th of July 2013 the "Legend Rule" was changed again. This rule saw its most interesting revision to date. Under the old rule, Legendary cards with the same name would destroy one another as a State Based Action. This meant that no chance to respond to one entering the battlefield was ever available and you would lose a permanent should you or your opponent play another that shared a name with the Legend you controlled. But this rule was changed to give you the option to keep one of the cards should another enter play and should an opponent play a card with the same name, it would not affect you at all. This rules change opened up an interaction with two rare lands: Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage.

    These two cards together would create a 20/20 Marit Lage for the low cost of only two mana plus these two cards. It turns out that having the option to make a fast 20/20 added some much needed speed to the deck and this combination was quickly added to the lands builds as a finisher. But added change was in the wind. Since now you could quickly and with a limited amount of resources create a gigantic dangerous Black Witch, the Lands deck could drop some of its more controlling elements and focus its resources on efficient resolution of this combo. In doing so it would hone its power down to a single focused point and split away from the RUG Control builds of old. A new deck was born, R/G Combo Lands.


    Why should I play this deck over RUG Lands?
    That is a personal choice, while Combo lands is putting up better finishes at the moment, I would argue that it is not in fact a strictly better deck than RUG lands and I would ask anyone that was thinking about picking up one of these two decks to test them both and then choose.

    Ok Dice, at least tell me the difference between them:
    This one I can do. Due to the higher count of Dark Depths and cheaper tutors (gambles and crops compared to intuition and tolaria west) RG lands tend to take the straight combo line much more often (around 50-50% along with the control line, counting both post and pre- sideboard games, while RUG lands plays 80% of the games through control). It means that in general the games will be faster. Also RG Lands is a little more resistant to graveyard hate. The weaknesses being, however, less stability (due to gamble and weaker middle-late games without loam) and less flexibility (the absence of maindeck engineered explosives). It brings some changes in match ups %. I would say, RUG lands are slightly better against control decks (Miracles, DnT) and RG lands are better against faster decks (combo and tempo with delver).


    The Deck: (Jointly written with Rivfader.)

    The Engine:
    These are the gas cards, the cards that fuel the deck and the cards that allow a Lands player to break parity with your opponent. These cards are the ones that either win you the game or let you turn recursive effects into game winning board positions.

    Life From the Loam. (4 Copies)
    This lovely card is the reason this deck exists, the reason that the deck can keep up with Blue tempo and also restriction on many of the card choices for the deck. On the surface it does not look like much but as a card that lets you recycle lands while also feeding your graveyard and its Dredge ability can often read more like "Draw three cards". It feeds itself while opening to you options at a much more accelerated rate than just drawing a card a turn ever could. The weakness is the cards dependency on the Graveyard and the fact that in a very quick time most of the contents of your hand will be known. But its recursion and the fuel it grants itself makes it one of the most powerful draw spells in the format. Its an easy four of in this deck.

    Exploration. (4 Copies)
    A must have. Exploration allows you to make an additional land drop each turn (Stacking in kind) thus transforming card advantage of Life from the Loam in board advantage. This is a very powerful effect when you take into consideration the amount of "Spell" lands you have and also the speed advantage extra mana will give you. Play four.

    Manabond. (2 Copies)
    Just as exploration, this card cheats multiple lands into play. Manabond lets you place all lands in your hand onto the battlefield, while all nonland cards are discarded. Manabondís effect has the strongest synergy with Life from the Loam, but at the same time itís drawback can leave you vulnerable if you don't have a Loam, or if your opponent has graveyard hate. This is the reason that manabond often gets sided out game 2.


    The Tutors:
    The glue that holds a lot of the deck together. While in the modern Legacy format many tutors have found themselves banned, these few are still legal and hold the deck together by letting you fill in the blank spaces you need to in most situations.

    Crop Rotation. (3-4 Copies)
    "Sac a land, solve target problem". Ok that is slightly hyperbolic, but it is still very close to the truth. With a mix of Spell like effects in many of its targets it can be the Swiss army knife of almost any situation and Life from the Loam can get back whatever card you were forced to sacrifice should you want it back. This card also can help power out the combo since both parts are lands. The card is not without issue though, the sacrifice is a part of it's cost. This means if the card is countered, you lose a land and do not get to fetch. It is a high value target and will often be earmarked for countering. This can be a weakness or a strength as it can also be used to bate out counters if you want another spell to resolve. (Like Gamble.)

    Tip: Playing crop rotation at your opponents end of turn for one of the missing combo pieces, and immediately generating the token, will give you a possibly lethal attacker during your following turn.
    Tip2: You can use crop rotation to save your life from the loam from grave hate, by getting horizon canopy, activate to draw, replace the draw by dredge. Punishing Fire can be saved in the same way, get Grove and activate Punishing Fire's triggered ability. Crop rotation also saves a single land from being surgical extracted, by getting this copy in the safe zone of the battlefield.
    Tip 3: You can use crop rotation defensive versus wasteland. If a land gets wasted, you can sacrifice it in response as part of the casting cost of crop rotation, making the wasteland fizzle while you search for a land to put into play.


    Gamble. (4 Copies)
    Gamble is an amazing card, since it gets you any card you want, for 1 Red mana. Itís drawback, discarding a card at random is often mitigated by the graveyard recursion the deck is built around. Usually you can consider gamble as life from the loam 5, 6, 7 and 8, but it also gets you Punishing Fire or any land. You can also attempt to gamble for a card that does not recur from the graveyard, such as Exploration, Manabond or a silver bullet sideboard card. You can reduce the risk of losing this card by "Buffering" it against discard by filling your hand with excess lands. While not always successful, it is a trick worthy of trying if you really need an Exploration for example. This is why gamble is an important card versus bad board states or bad matchups postboard.


    The Mana:
    While this may not seam evident at first, Lands is often a Mana light deck. It does not need much to start and one the ball in rolling it just snowballs. Many of the decks Lands are played for effects that are not Mana related. This means that while the deck may have a land count in the mid to high 30's, less than half of that count is actually useful as a mana source on the opening turns of the game. Luckily, we also have a Mox, as if the deck was not already busted enough as is.

    Forest. (1 Copy)
    Your one basic in case you find yourself in need of it. Good against Bloodmoon, Wasteland and Back to Basics. Run one always.

    Taiga. (2-3 Copies)
    The dual land of choice for the deck. While different people have run different amounts of this card, the more accepted amount is normally 2. Some versions run 3 Taiga (instead of a Fetchland), to have a better balance between Fetchlands and fetchable lands. 3 Taiga will also help casting Seismic Assault, a possible sideboard card. I personally run 3 as I also do feel that since you can recur Fetches, having more Targets is beneficial.

    Misty Rainforest, Wooded Foothills, Windswept Heath and Verdant Catacombs. (3-4 Copies)
    The "Fetchlands" cycle of lands offer a recurrable way to find any Forests or Taiga still left in your library. The deck never runs more than 4 and there are 4 with different names. Split the difference and protect yourself from Pithing Needle and extraction effects.

    Grove of The Burnwillows. (4 Copies)
    The second half of the Punishing Fire combo and offers both the colours you need. Easy 4 of. The life gain is often of little consequence as you hit in lots of 20 but it is still worth keeping your opponents life total in mind. Every life you give is 3 mana you need to take it away if you end up needing to burn someone out. Also, against faster decks killing them in one hit is important. Something to keep in mind.

    Mox Diamond. (4 Copies)
    Having 35 maindeck lands makes Mox Diamond an easy inclusion. Itís drawback Ė discarding a land Ė really isn't a drawback with Life from the Loam backup. Playing a fetchland and a Mox Diamond as a turn one play is an excellent start if you can follow it up with Life from the Loam. Mox Diamond fixes your mana as the amount of colored mana sources is limited, and provides you with green mana under a Blood Moon. Mox Diamond is also a great tool to play around Daze.


    The Control: Burn
    Punishing Fire. (3-4 Copies)
    Punishing Fire is recurrable burn thanks to it's interaction with Grove of the Burnwillows. It puts an ability on the stack whenever an opponent gains life and you can pay a single Red to return it to your hand. This is useful since Grove supplies you with both these things effectively turning it into "Tap, return Punishing to your hand". Punishing fire is good because it can in all effects be placed into your hand with Loam. Since Loam can get Grove and Grove can get Punishing, this is an effect that sees a lot of play in Lands decks of all stripes and colours.

    One life gained will trigger all Punishing Fire's in your Graveyard too meaning that if you tap one Grove but have a Mox open too, you can get back two Punishing not just one. If you think about this as well as the fact that most of legacyís creatures are within tend to be two toughness or less, having a punishing fire engine going often mean you are in total control. Punishing Fire also deals with Deathrite Shaman which is often the only way a deck can interact with you game one. Lastly it can also be used as a slow way to win the game as you can burn someone out for 1 Life at a cost of 3 mana. This might seem like a steep cost, but it is shockingly affordable once you come to understand how much mana this deck can create.

    Tip: You can destroy an active Mother of Runes by burning her during your opponentís turn (she will tap to protect itself), recur Punishing Fire and burn again during your turn.
    Tip 2: You can save Punishing Fire from graveyard hate by tapping a Grove of the Burnwillows for R, when your opponent passes priority. As this is a mana-ability which activates a triggered ability, so you can even do this when you receive priority after your opponent casts extirpate (which prevents spells or effects being played on the stack).



    The Control: Mana Denial
    Mana Denial is very much at the core of this decks plan, these cards are the ones that execute this strategy and lock down an opponent long enough for you to win.

    Wasteland. (4 Copies)
    If you do not know what this card does yet, go play a few games of Legacy with an unstable Mana base of Non Basic lands held together by Fetchlands. If you do know what this card does, you are likely playing an unstable Mana base of Non Basic lands held together by Fetchlands. Either way, I am sure you can guess why it is a four of in this deck.

    Ghost Quarter. (0-1 Copies)
    This card is often a Strip Mine against a non trivial amount of the Legacy meta. Even if a deck runs basics, it is usually 1 basic for each color used to avoid the mana screw that wasteland can offer. Ghost Quarter enables you to destroy these lone basics as well, enabling a total mana control. Against decks with multiple basics, attempting to ghost quarter your opponent out of basics is normally a bad idea. Some decks will bring in Pithing Needle versus wasteland, having a single ghost quarter circumvents this as well.

    Rishadan Port. (4 Copies)
    Goblins may be a dying deck, but their mana base lives on. Well mostly. Post is the complement to Wasteland in the decks Mana Denial plan. Normally activated in ones upkeep, this card can cut off an opponent from non instant spells with shocking efficiency. With this card, you sometimes beat Storm Decks since they can fetch basics, but never get full use from them. You can also use it to tap down Fetches in response to Brainstorms or Delver triggers forcing a sub optimal play from the opponent.

    Tip: Versus a Senseiís Divining Top, you should use the port-activation during the draw-step. The top-player will use topís ability in response to the port-activation during upkeep, minimizing the loss of mana while setting up the draw. If you wait for the draw step, your opponent will have to pay anyway for his top, if he wants to set up his draw. After which you additionally port him.
    Tip 2: You can get around decks with cards like Swords to Plowshares by tapping down their Plains in their Main phases and then making your Witch at the end of turn.
    Tip 3: You can look for opportune moments to tap lands, like after they cast a spell in their first main phase to try and keep them off mana for things like counters, then in the Second Main you can Crop Rotate in a much less dangerous situation.


    The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. (1 Copy)
    The final piece in the Mana Denial plan this card gives you a way out to creatures you otherwise can not control. By stripping an opponent of lands this becomes a Wrath effect but often it is just another of the many thumbscrews. It will limit board Development while restricting the amount of spells an opponent can play in a turn. When used with Maze of Ith, this card can become an almost solid roadblock against many decks.
    Sadly, this is a very expensive card with no equivalent replacement. If you want to play Lands, you NEED this card regardless of its price. You are just not playing a Lands deck without it.

    Tip: Tabernacle will force your opponent to pay for his creatures during upkeep. So wait until he does before porting him. The same goes for playing Punishing Fire, usually itís a good play to burn creatures during your opponent's upkeep, after he paid the Tabernacle costs for them.
    Tip 2: Tabernacle is written in such a way, that the cost of paying 1 for a creature or be destroyed, is the ability of the creature itself. This makes your opponent the owner of the tabernacle triggers, and if he forgets to pay (for example by immediately drawing a card), all his creatures will be destroyed.
    Tip 3: Indestructible creatures (as Marit Lage) cannot be destroyed, so you don't have to pay a Tabernacle trigger for them.


    The Control: Damage Control
    Maze of Ith. (3 Copies)
    A complement to your already strong anti creature package with Punishing Fire. Maze holds back creatures that you can not burn out due to protection or size. It can also be used to give a kind of Vigilance to your Marit Lage token by untapping the attacking Witch after you dealt damage but while you are still in the attack step.

    Glacial Chasm. (1 Copy.)
    This card has a unique effect for a land: dodging all damage at the cost of sacrificing a land and a cumulative upkeep of 2 life. Crop rotating into this card dodges lethal alpha strikes or Price of Progress.

    Along with Thespianís Stage and Life From the Loam, you can continuously keep chasm into play. When the upkeep on chasm triggers, you can in response copy the chasm with thespianís stage, and not pay the upkeep. The original chasm will be sacrificed, while a copied version without counters remains into play. Play a land as well. Next turn you can opt to pay the cumulative upkeep of 2 life, and recur and play the chasm. In this scenario you will lose 2 life every two turns, but remain on 4 lands. If you find an additional Thespians Stage, or an exploration, you will be able to avoid the lifeloss and/or to get more lands into play. Having such a glacial chasm shield into play, can save you from wasteless decks that attack for the win (Elves, dredge) or from decks that win through damage (burn, belcher). A chasm shield prevents you from attacking, in some cases you'll have to resort to Punishing Fire as a win condition.

    It is also worthy to note that since the most common removal spell in the format is Swords to Plowshares and your deck creates a Creature with a power of 20, you can often find yourself at a very high lift total. In cases like this, putting a Chasm in play and then just forgetting about it for a few turns can be all the help you need to get ahead in the game. At the very least it should give the the time needed to set up the combo again.


    The Combo:
    Dark Depths. (2-4 Copies)
    A legendary land which comes into play with 10 ice counters the ability to remove a counter for 3 colourless and to generate a Marit Lage when there is no longer any counters on it. Seems easy right? 30 Mana for a 20/20 kitchen sink? Well, add in our next card and things get fun.

    Tip: Pithing Needle on Dark Depths prevents you to remove counters by paying for them, but does not prevent the token from being generated, as itís a triggered ability.
    Tip2: Stifle can counter the first triggered ability of Dark Depths, but this ability will immediately check again for counters, and trigger again.
    Tip3: Wasteland protects you from wasteland. Your opponent cannot waste one of your combo pieces, because you could in response activate Stage, copy Depths and generate the token. But an opposing wasteland does prevent you from going off. Your opponent might play it in response to the triggered ability of Dark Depths, sacrificing itself and generating the token. This scenario leaves you with no combo pieces. Having your own wasteland breaks this stalemate up, because you can target the opposing wasteland, forcing it to activate it in response or have it destroyed.
    Tip4: Evaluate when to make the token. You can create it during your turn, or at your opponentís end of turn. During your turn, you play around a wasteland your opponent might play (see above). At your opponentís end of turn, you avoid sorcery speed creature kill, especially in the form of Liliana of the Veil and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.


    Thespianís Stage. (4 Copies)
    This land is without a doubt, the most complicated one in the deck to use right. The amount of tricks you can pull off with this card is astounding and it is far more than half of the combo. You can use it to make a copy of any land on the table, regardless of which side it is on. This is useful when you need a Green land and your opponent has a Red or Green fetch on the table. Not only that, Stage can skip upkeep costs on Chasm while never opening yourself to burn, it can make extra copies of Port for additional control, you can clone lands being targeted by Wasteland and keep them around (Like Tabernacle) and it can protect itself from Wasteland by cloning and becoming a Basic land. Without a doubt the most versatile land in the deck.

    Tip: You can copy a basic land, to make Thespianís Stage immune to wasteland. You can even do this in response to the wasteland activation.
    Tip 2: You can circumvent pithing needle with a copied stage (a forest for example). If Pithing Needle names Thespianís Stage, it will not affect the copy since the copy is now a Forest, with a name to match and it retains copy ability. If someone would want to stop the effect, they would need to name Forest and if they did, they could not stop future Stages you play.
    Tip 3: You can use Stage on opponent's lands making the Mirror quite a skill testing event since if someone puts a Depths in play, it can become a very tense situation.
    Tip 4: You can clone and then use opponents Fetchlands
    .


    The "Spells":
    These lands are the ones that hold the rest of the deck together. Each has a unique effect that should be examined and thought over. Some decks run none of these cards, others run large amounts of them. None of them are needed for the core of the deck to run, but all help add something to the deck be it a smoother operation or an effect that your local Meta demands.

    Horizon Canopy. (0-1 Copy)
    The first of the decks two "Draw" lands. What makes Canopy special is that in the early game it can be used as a pain land offering starting Mana at the cost of a single life. This effect, while only offering one of the two colours we need, is no less useful in a deck that wants to power out green enchantments and spells as early as it can. Canopy also has another effect, that of card drawing. This is extremely useful when playing against decks with Deathrite as their main piece of graveyard interaction. Since you can use Canopy in response to the targeting of Life from the Loam and counter the removal effect of DRS. The drawback this card has over Tranquil Thicket is that it has to be in play to be used, that said, the bonus of having that extra mana source is a very big count in its favour.

    Tranquil Thicket. (0-3 Copies)
    Another draw engine in this deck. Uncounterable, instant speed and cheap, it is everything you need to save your Life from the Loam should the need arise. Its drawback is that it comes into play tapped. Still, when in the later stages of the game, this card can let you draw and Dredge (If you are looking for something like an Exploration) or Dredge more than one time a turn. While some people cut these for other effects, I personally would always have at least one on hand.

    Karakas. (0-1 Copy)
    A true "Silver Bullet" in this deck, Karakas offers you an out against Legendary creatures at little cost. Being something you can Crop Rotate into at instant speed helps too. A great inclusion in your 75 and something you should pay great attention to should your Meta call on it for your main.

    Bojuka Bog. (0-1 Copy)
    No deck in the modern Legacy format is complete without some kind of graveyard hate. Lands is no different. Bog gives you the option of instant speed wiping of a graveyard (When used with Crop Rotation) should someone be trying to do something you disapprove of, this can be anything from Reanimating something you would rather stay dead or wiping your own grave to counter a Surgical Extraction. The card can also be used as a sorcery speed wipe as well should the need arise. While Black is not the most useful colour in this deck, the effect is still strong enough that the card should see play somewhere in your 75.


    Riftstone portal. (0-1 Copies)
    A card gaining traction. While slow and painful in an opening hand it can unbalance a longer game by "Turning on" all your non mana producing toys. Also Loaming into it early can mean that you only need three lands to combo as Depths can make mana. It also gives you a way to make Green mana under a moon. Very good in a sideboarded match.

    The Sideboard:
    Lands is by no means a perfect deck. It is highly specialised to deal with fair meta's, creature based decks and it has game against some slower control decks. But it has some fairly large weaknesses too. The deck has a reliance on having access to its graveyard, it has little in the way of answers to spells on the stack and it really just does not like combo. Decks like Storm, Omnishow and Reanimator can cause issues while cards like Rest in Peace, Tormod's Crypt and Nihil Spellbomb can cause massive headaches. Grafdigger's Cage might sometimes find its way onto the battlefield, but the card does nothing to the deck.

    It is around these weaknesses that the sideboard is built. Placing high priorities on Enchantment and Artifact removal as well as taxing effects that force combo decks to slow down. Other options often consist of alternative ways to deal damage, large creatures or extra lands that did not make the cut in the mainboard. Let's have a look at the most common choices.

    Ancient Tomb.
    A card sometimes used as an accelerant for our own hate, a way to force a card though own own hate or to push a faster combo. Rarely play though some people swear by it, the main trick is that you can Crop Rotate into it on your first turn to drop a Sphere.

    Karakas and Bojuka Bog.
    If you do not have these cards in the Main, they should be here as they do belong somewhere in the 75.

    Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
    A useful card to fight the rise in Miracles decks. Boseiju lets you cast Loam though a Counterballance or a wall of Counterspells. When paired with Sphere or Resistance or Trisphere you can also use it to cast Gamble in much the same way.

    Dark Depths.
    Although this deck is built to control your opponent through lands, having a built-in combo certainly improved the odds of all lands-variants a lot. A postboard commitment to additional combo pieces has 2 upsides. As the combo is independent of the graveyard, an emphasis on the combo counterbalances the grave hate your opponent will board in. So while your opponent undermines the loaming engine, you can reinforce chances of combo winning instead of grinding out.
    A second upside is that winning through combo is a lot faster than the long grind. Especially combo decks are difficult matchups because of their speed, and because you do not run Force of Will. So attempting to combo out first is a good game plan versus fast combo decks, as they usually donít pack hate against your combo (safe from cards like echoing truth)

    The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.
    Sometimes you want to find it faster, in those games having a second can be a benefit.

    Ancient Grudge.
    Not a bad option against decks that run limited one shot Grave wipe effects. Against a Spellbomb or Crypt you can Gamble for it and then force an activation regardless on if you keep it in hand or not. It will also hit other problem permanents like Pithing Needle, Null Rod and Sword of Fire and Ice. Unfortunately it does not hit Rest in Peace, Counterbalance, Bloodmoon or Leyline of the Void, some of the biggest issues this deck can face. If run, it is good as a one of Silver Bullet but not great in multiples due to its targeting restrictions.

    Krosan Grip.
    Kills the hate, hard to answer, in our colours and can be cast off a single Basic under Bloodmoon. Really, what's not to like?

    Ray of Revelation.
    Another card you can use from your grave to hose hate. Targets Moon, Back to Basics and most importantly, Rest in Peace. To destroy Rest in Peace you need to flashback Ray in response to RIP's grave wipe tigger. (Yes, it is a trigger) While you will still lose your Graveyard, they will not get to keep the enchantment turning the card into a one shot effect not a continuous one.

    Sphere of Resistance and Thorn of Amethyst.
    The two cards often used to hate on combo by increasing the costs of the spells. Increasing the cost of Cantrip, Rituals and other gas can cause issues that many decks have a hard time dealing with doubled by the Mana denial plan of the deck. The other bonus of these cards is their colourless nature, allowing ease of casting in the early stages of the game.

    Chalice of the Void.
    This card is the strongest, and cheapest card available to battle unfavorable matchups and for this reason many lists run at least 1 Chalice of the Void. But unfortunately itís symmetrical effect will hit you as well when played for 1 shuting down gamble and crop rotation, cards you typically want to use in a combo matchup. Many lists add 1 chalice of this card, gambling for it and playing it for 0 against very fast matchups. Chalice of the Void is also good versus Miracles, where you can afford a slower play, and where chalice for 1 keeps cantrips and Top from being cast.

    Choke.
    Mana denial for only one colour? Can't be that good. Oh wait, this is Legacy and that colour is Blue, can not think of how useful as to how that can be. Oh and you can tap down those lands with Port? Well sounding better all the time.

    Molten Vortex.
    A small Seismic Assault you can cast early and with a less demanding colour spread. Useful against Blood Moon and not a whole lot else.

    Pithing Needle.
    Pinpoint targeting of many key cards that can cause issues. From increasing Mana denial by targeting fetches to stopping Vial and Mother, Top, Griselbrand, Sneak Attack, Grindstone, Deathrite Sharman and any Planeswalker. This is a fantastic card and running some number is suggested.

    Seismic Assault.
    This can be very powerful but also very hard to cast. Three Red mana is a tougher ask than it looks, unless you happen to be under a Blood Moon or you are looking to play longer games. It is also a plan that does not need the Graveyard to kill. This is not the most effective of uses but it should be noted as a possible use but in all honesty, this card is at it's best when you can recur lands, if your meta is full of Grave hate, this is not likely the best option for you.

    Primeval Titan.
    Primetime is expensive, but when it hits, itís a bomb. If it hits the table, you'll get to search for two lands that come into play tapped. Depending on the board state these cards could be anything, but chances are high you want it to be combo pieces, because your opponent most likely cannot handle both Primetime and Marit lage. Primeval Titan needs to be answered, or an additional two lands will enter the battlefield during your next turn. This effect is independent of the graveyard, which makes Primeval Titan a very good card when Life from the Loam has been disabled or access to the Graveyard has been removed.

    Zuran Orb.
    While not a common sight in a build of Lands not running Blue, it is still a very strong card. It gives you the option of sacing Chasm every second turn for a net neutral cost in both life and mana while helping strengthen you against decks with heavy Burn strategies.


    The Sideboard: (Black Splash)
    Some players enjoy adding a Black splash to their builds, almost always for exclusive access to sideboard options. To do this, one of the "Flex" maindeck slots is changed for a single Bayou. Often these decks will be on the 4 Fetchlands plan too for the increase in access to this extra land. Cards cut for this Bayou are usually Karakas, Thicket, 4th Crop or the 3rd Dark Depths. This opens you to an interesting suite of cards, most of note is Urborg, a card that when it can be used is very powerful. The other options are as follows:

    Abrupt Decay.
    There is little I can add to the long list of praises heaped upon this card. It is more flexible than Grip and hits most of the same targets. Also, unlike Grip which can get stranded in your hand if there happens to be no target, Decay can be an answer to threats you might otherwise have a hard time dealing with like Goyf and Liliana.

    Dark Confidant.
    Your maindeck as a total CMC average of just over 0.45. Even if you slightly increase that number by adding in some two cost cards, you still look to average around half a point worth of damage each flip. Not bad odds. After you flip you then have the option to Dredge, useful when you are looking for something you can not Loam back.
    Bob shines mostly in Control matches, where after they have likely removed some number of Creature removal you can bring him in and bury them under card advantage. If the opponent is forced to use removal such as Sword to Plowshares to stop your Confidant, that puts you ahead when you later start making Flying Witches.

    Raven's Crime.
    A very good option mostly seen in Jund Depths, a good card that gives you an added level of control. Spots are tight though and this card often does not make the cut as this deck can be too fast to need it.

    Worm Harvest.
    Another possible win condition. With it you can flood the board with tokens. These days a relic of the past as once it was quite popular as a faster way to speed up the clock.


    Matchups:
    Elves: (favorable but they can be faster than you)
    Elves is a combo deck, which can sometimes kill as fast as turn 2. Moreover, there are 4 Deathrite Shaman, Reclamation Sage and sometimes Scavenging Ooze in main deck which are tutorable via Green Sun's Zenith. Inspite all that, in general it's a good match up for R/G Lands, and the reason is the Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. Elves can not interact with our lands in play and their manabase is weak with only 1-3 basic forests. They do not interact with our hand pre-board, so any hand containing a way to find Tabernacle is usually an auto keep. Fast hands with recurring Punishing Fire are keepable as well.
    Remember the few easy rules while playing against Elves:
    1. Find Tabernacle. It's your first step in any game against Elves.
    2. Shoot with Punishing Fire elves which can produce multiple mana, watch out for Wirewood Simbiot which can save an elf from your fire.
    3. Destroy their lands, so that the Tabernacle will finish off the remaining elves. Gaea's Cradle is always a number one target.
    4. If you think you can spend mana for improving your position instead of killing some remaining peaceful elves, don't do that! Elves can combo off from nowhere. If you can kill more elves, do so always.

    Most of the time Deathrite Shaman will be busy as a mana producer, that's why you can sometimes not worry about Loam or Punishing Fire in your graveyard, however it's better to keep 0 lands in grave to limit their mana sources.

    After sideboard Elves do not offer much. They will probably side in some discard and Abrupt Decays, which present minor threat for us. However keep in mind that there might be Progenitus via Natural Order. If the Hydra lands and does not die from the Tabernacle, you can only race it with Marite Liege or defend with Glacial Chasm.

    Watch out if you notice they are playing Crop Rotation. Besides Gaea's Cradle it can bring in Bojuka Bog and Karakas after SB. Also sometimes they have Pithing Needle and Meekstone in sideboard.

    Spheres of Resistance and Chalice of the Void will make the match up more easygoing.

    Side in: All Sphere of resistance, All Chalice of the Void, Seismic Assault, Dark Depths (if there's space)
    Side out: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, 1-3 Maze of Ith, 1 Tranquil Thicket, 1 Manabond

    Patriot Delver: (favorable game one, harder after sideboarding)
    No interference pre board with the loam engine (play around Daze and Spell Pierce for resolving exploration). They run only non basics, which makes the mana denial plan very strong. Punishing Fire deals with Delver and maze with batterskull. Avoid having them play an (equipped) TNN with mana denial, at which point you will have to race them, or slow them down with Chasm. They have swords to plowshares to deal with your combo plan, you should only resort to the combo when they're tapped out of white mana, or if you have recursion for the combo pieces and you can afford being set back 2 lands. Swords to plowshares gives you 20 life, which helps you if you need to race them. Look out for a fast Delver deployment with disruptive backup along with burn.
    Keycards: accelerated waste lock (wasteland, life from the loam, exploration).
    They will side in: Rest in Peace, meddling mage, Submerge
    Side in: 4x Krosan Grip, 1x Dark Depths, Choke
    Side out: 2x Manabond, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Tranquil Thicket

    Postboard is harder, if they have Meddling Mage, it can be hard to deal with (they will name Punishing Fire or Loam). Go for the mana denial plan with Krosan Grip Backup versus Rest in Peace.

    RUG Delver: (favorable)
    No interference pre board with the loam engine (play around Daze and Spell Pierce for resolving exploration). They run only non basics, which makes the mana denial plan very strong. Punishing Fire deals with delver and maze with Tarmogoyf. Nimble Mongoose can race you, Bojuka Bog and Chasm can slow them down. They have no interference with your combo plan, so you can combo when the opportunity presents itself. Look out for a fast Delver deployment with disruptive backup (stifle!) along with burn.
    Keycards: accelerated waste lock (wasteland, life from the loam, exploration),Combo Pieces
    They will side in: possibly Surgical Extraction Submerge, Pithing Needle
    Side in: 1x Dark Depths, Choke
    Side out: Karakas, possibly Rishadan port

    Postboard your mana denial plan is again very strong, watch out for extraction. The Combo Plan is also strong, attempt to avoid having a forest on the battlefield (crop rotation, wasteland) when comboing to dodge Submerge.

    Death and Taxes: (even to unfavorable)
    No interference pre board with the loam engine. They run many basics, which makes the mana denial plan not so strong. Attempt to delay them with Rishadan Port. Punishing Fire deals with all their threats, and is your strongest gameplan. Destroy an active mom by burning during your opponents turn and again during your turn. Avoid having Sword of Fire and Ice equipped by burning the creature in response to sorcery speed equipping. THey have a strong mana denial plan of their own, with wasteland, Rishadan Port, Thalia, Phyrexian Revoker (Mox), Aven Mindcensor (fetchlands), so keep a hand with multiple mana sources. They have swords to plowshares, Flickerwisp (vial on 3) and up to 3 Karakas to deal with your combo plan, you should only resort to the combo when they're tapped out of white mana, or if you have recursion for the combo pieces and you can afford being set back 2 lands. Besides Stoneforge Mystic, they don't have card advantage. So if you can stabilize with Punishing Fire and Maze of Ith, you will take over. Tabernacle keeps their number of creatures in check, with vial dodging you mana denial plan.
    Keycards: Punishing Grove
    They will side in: Rest in Peace, Enlightened Tutor, Cataclysm
    Side in: 4x Krosan Grip, 1x Dark Depths, Pithing Needle, Primetime, Assault
    Side out: Bojuka Bog, Ghost Quarter, Tranquil Thicket, Manabond, possibly Glacial Chasm

    Postboard they will go for Rest in Peace, you have Krosan Grip to deal with it. Krosan Grips can handle Vials, Batterskull, Sword of Fire and Ice as well. Needle can deal with vials, mom, equipment

    (Dark) Maverick: (slightly unfavorable to even)
    They have Scavenging Ooze or Deathrite Shaman through Green sun's Zenith to interfere pre board with the loam engine. They probably run a basic for each color (2-3), which makes the mana denial plan decent if you can handle Deathrite Shaman through Punishing Fire. Destroy an active mom by burning during your opponents turn and again during your turn. If they get a Knight of the Reliquary online, they can interfere with all your gameplans. Knight gets big and can handle maze by fetching wasteland, handles the token by getting Karakas, removes the graveyard with Bog. Crop rotating for Bojuka Bog will reduce Knight to punishable sizes. They have swords to plowshares to deal with your combo plan, you should only resort to the combo when they're tapped out of white mana, or if you have recursion for the combo pieces and you can afford being set back 2 lands.
    Keycards: Punishing Grove for DRS, backed up with mana denial

    They will side in: Surgical Extraction, Pithing Needle
    Side in: 1x Dark Depths, Primetime, Krosan Grip (Assault will probably be decayed or targeted by Pridemage, might be okay)
    Side out: Karakas, manabond, Chasm

    Postboard watch out for extraction, Primetime has a great impact versus this midrange matchup.

    Burn: (slightly unfavorable)
    Versus burn you only have two gameplans: a fast combo plan or hiding behind an eternal chasm while setting up a Punishing Fire kill (or have your opponent burn himself to death through Sulfuric Vortex). Dodge Price of Progress by crop rotating in chasm or in the combo.
    Keycards: Combo Pieces, accelerators, Crop Rotation (chasm or combo pieces), loam for eternal chasm setup.
    They will side in: all price of progresses, if they weren't already main decked as well as Ensnaring Bridge or Pithing Needle if they have them.
    Side in: 2x Dark Depths, possibly chalices (I personally don't board in chalice), Zuran Orb and consider side in Krosan Grip for possible Ensnaring Bridge, Pithing Needle, Sulphuric Vortex and Eidolon
    Side out: Bojuka Bog, Tabernacle, Ghost Quarter, Karakas and some amount of Wastelands

    Infect: (favorable but they can be faster than you)
    No interference pre board with the loam engine (play around Daze and Spell Pierce for resolving exploration). They run only 1 forest, which makes the mana denial plan very strong. Tabernacle and Maze of Ith are also very strong. Punishing Fire deals with all their creatures (they will protect them with Invigorate and Vines of Vastwood). They only have one Wasteland to interact with your combo plan, so you can combo when the opportunity presents itself. Look out for a possible turn two alpha strike, especially since Vines of Vastwood can protect the creature from targeted effects (maze). Look out for an end of turn crop rotation into Inkmoth Nexus or their single Wasteland should they need it. Sandbagging a Crop Rotation into chasm is a good backup plan.
    Keycards: Mana Denial, Punishing Grove, Maze of Ith, Tabernacle, Crop Rotation.
    They will side in: Surgical Extraction, Submerge, Pithing Needle, Karakas, Bojuka Bog
    Side in: 2x Dark Depths, Krosan Grips for destroying Pithing needles on Stage/Maze and Inkmoth Nexus.
    Side out: Karakas, Bojuka Bog and 2 Manabond

    Postboard watch out for extraction, submerge, Karakas, Bojuka Bog. All your maindeck strategies are very strong against them, watch out for an alpha strike out of nowhere.

    MUD: (favorable to even)
    No interference pre board with the loam engine. They run only non basics, which makes the mana denial plan very strong, especially since they need this manabase and metalworker to ramp into expensive artifacts. Punishing Fire deals with metalworker. Keep them from obtaining the mana they need to take the game over. They have Trinisphere and Chalice, Chalice on 1 is annoying but only chalice on 2 will really harm you. You can lock up a MUD player behind his own Trinisphere with a recurring wasteland. They have no interference with your combo plan as long as you keep their mana resources low, so you can combo when the opportunity presents itself.
    They will side in: Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, perhaps Ensnaring Bridge or Tsabo's web
    Side in: 1 Dark Depths, 4 Krosan Grip, Pithing Needle
    Side out: Karakas, Bojuka Bog, manabond, Tranquil Thicket
    Keycards: (accelerated) Wasteland lock, Punishing Fire for metalworker

    Postboard they don't really have that much against you, you have Krosan Grip though.

    Miracles: (unfavorable to even game one, slightly easier after sideboarding)
    One of the hardest matchups in terms of playing, however not difficult to win if you know how. It's even in general, slightly unfavored in G1, and favored after SB. Their only viable option to stop us using Sensei's Divining Top + Counterbalance with a 2 cmc card on top of the library. It successfully turns off both of our engines: Punishing Fire and Life from the Loam. We don't have instruments to destroy Counterbalance in Game 1, however it does not mean that the game is unwinnable. We still have 8 Rishadan Ports to keep them in check. Also the card you need to keep in mind is Entreat the Angels, which can win on the spot.
    If they don't have Top+Balance, try attacking their mana base aggressively. Tap their blue mana with Port. Perfectly, they should not have more than 1 blue mana available in their main phase. If Ghost Quarter is available, first destroy Plains, only after that continue with Islands. They have only 2 Plains. Ripping off all of their white Mana with Quarter and Wasteland will turn off their removal for Marite Lage and Entreat the Angels. After that they will be able to win only with Jace, which is a nice target for Punishing Fire.
    If they manage to assemble Top+Balance and have a 2cmc card on top, our best bet is to manually find Dark Depths + Stage, waste or tap their white mana with port and make Marite Lage at the end of their turn. It's important to pay attention at how they rearrange cards with Top. You can use Punishing Fire after they put the 2 cmc card second from the top before their draw step to force them spend 2 more mana for putting it back on top and hiding it again. Don't play Loam mindlessly. Once they found a 2 cmc card, they will keep it on the top with all effort. You can try using Port or Wasteland on their fetchlands to force them shuffle and lose a 2 cmc card on the top or lose a land.
    Also in response to their fetching you can try to Crop Rotate and force them to put Sensei's on top and shuffle it away.
    Consider conceding the first game if their position is strong. Postboard games are a little easier and you will need that extra time to win.
    After G1 expect Rest in Peace, Wear/Tear or Disenchant, rarely Blood Moon, Surgical Extraction or Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle.
    Krosan Grips and Chalice of the Void will serve well for you, as well as Choke and Titan if you have them. Use Krosan Grip on RIP or Top. Top is offten more of a danger than Counterbalance since top lets them filter their draws while Counterbalance will only rarely hit anything you can not get back should you need it. Keep Choke until they tap out and you can safely play it. It will win you the game. Chalice on 1 is also painful for them, because it turns off all their cantrips, StP and tricks with the Top, which works on all stages of the game. However, play your 1-mana spells before turning them off with Chalice. In G2 and G3 we have too many dangerous cards for them, but still the game will likely go to extra turns, so try playing as fast as possible against Miracles. Note that tapping their lands with Rishadan Port is sometimes better on their draw step if they control Sensei's Divining Top.
    Side in: Krosan Grips, Primeval Titan, Chalice of the Void, Choke, Dark Depths (some players prefer Sphere of Resistance instead of Chalice)
    Side out: Karakas, 1-2 Punishing Fire, Bojuka Bog, 2 Manabond, 4 Crop Rotation, 3 Maze of Ith, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Glacial Chasm, also you can side out 1 Life from the Loam if you expect a lot of Rest in Peace.

    Storm (ANT/TES): (very unfavorable)
    One of the worst matchups. The only way to win G1 is a fast combo or total land control, so mulligan properly if you know you are playing versus Storm. If you kept an average hand but still alive after t2, attack their manabase with all effort and keep Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog to fizzle their Past in Flames or for Tabernacle if they play Empty the Warrens.
    After SB mulligan hands without hate. If they discard your hate card you can still find another one with gamble. To keep the chances of gambling high do not make needless land drops.
    Note that if you expect a lot of Storm combo in your meta, the optimal amount of hate cards in SB is 8 or more.
    Side in: Dark Depths, all Sphere of Resistance, Thorn of Amethyst and Chalice of the Void, Bojuka Bog if not in main deck, Zuran Orb, Ancient Tomb (to speed up t1 Chalice or Sphere)
    Side out: Karakas, 1-3 Punishing Fire, Glacial Chasm, 4 Maze of Ith, the Tabernacle (against ANT)

    Painter: (very unfavorable)
    I can not think of a matchup that is as twisted as this. It is not as hard to win as Storm is, but it can be shockingly unforgivable if you make a single mistake. G1 you are likely going to get hosed by a Blood Moon without knowing it is coming. If you see a Mountain leading into a Top, this is the deck. Your only out is a fast combo, something they have an answer for. Main Deck, they run Ensnaring Bridge and also happen to be able to fetch it. They also run Magus of the Moon, like Blood Moon was not already a pain. If a Blood Moon is dropped, just go to game too, if Magus is dropped, Gamble or dig for Punishing Fire as fast as you can. After you side you're in for a chance. Keep hands with Grip, Fetches and speed. They will have brought in more Moon effects, Artifact hate, more Bridges and Rest in Peace. You need to try for your combo as fast as you can while holding up removal for a Bridge, a combo piece or a Moon. The one thing you need not fear is Damage, they do not often attack for the win and while sometimes it becomes the plan, they normally will just hit you with their Grindstone combo for the win.
    Side in: Grips, Ancient Grudge, Dark Depths and either Seismic Assault or Primeval Titan if you have them.
    Side out: Glacial Chasm, 2-3 Maze of Ith, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, 2 Manabond, Ghost Quarter

    Mirror match (RG lands): (even)
    In G1 the player who recognizes the mirror match first is highly favored. The unexpected Crop Rotation can be devastating be it for Thespian's Stage into opponent's Dark Depths, or Bojuka Bog or a critical early Wasteland. Other than that the game is about who combos off first or loams first. Thespian's Stage is the most powerful land here, because it copies Rishadan Port, basic Forest and Dark Depths. Because of that do not play Dark Depths for no reason!!! Try to keep Tranquil Thicket on your hand all the time to save Life from the Loam from opponent's Bojuka Bog. Do not hurry because the field for making a mistake is vast, however use time efficiently, the game will likely go to extra turns. To save your combo from Wasteland or Karakas you will need to waste or tap it first before activating Thespian's Stage.
    There are two lines of play after SB: the control line and the aggressive line. To be more control you can use Chalice of the Void on 1 to turn off opponent's Exploration, Manabond, Gamble and Crop Rotation. Krosan Grip will help you destroying their Moxes and enchantments. However, you can keep Chalice for a better moment, if you have 1cmc cards on hand. Also Chalice on 2 can equalize the board position if you don't have loam and your opponent does. Overall the control line is very tricky and I would recommend it only to experienced players. The aggressive line supposes comboing off as fast as possible. It's good to be aggressive if you are on the draw and loosing g1 with little time left, and the control line is better on the play.
    Side in (control): Chalice of the Void (1-3), Dark Depths, 2 Krosan Grip, Ray of Revelation and Pithing Needle (if available), Bojuka Bog and Karakas (if not already in Main deck)
    Side in (aggro): Dark Depths, Ray of Revelation and Pithing Needle (if available), Bojuka Bog and Karakas (if not already in Main deck)
    Side out: the Tabernacle, 1-2 Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm, 2-3 Punishing Fire

    Merfolk: (favorable)
    Merfolk has no pre board graveyard interaction (they might have Daze for Exploration). Basic Islands and Aether Vial make the mana denial plan poor, Tabernacle can keep their amount of creatures in check. Prioritise on targeting their lords with Punishing Fire to avoid lords from reinforcing each other. If they don't have lords, wait for their turn to see what you should burn (watch out for a vialed in lord, buffering a merfolk beyond punishable range). They will start to race you with True Name Nemesis, but as they don't run wasteland and have hardly any means to deal with Marit Lage (some versions run Vapor Snag main), the combo will probably end the game. They can vial in Phantasmal Image to copy the token, as a surprise blocker after which they can attack for the kill. You can deal with Phantasmal Image by targetting it with a spell or ability (Punishing Fire). Because they're wasteless, Chasm works very well too.
    They will side in: Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Surgical extraction, perhaps Submerge or Threads of disloyalty
    Side in: 2 Dark Depths, Choke, Pithing Needle (Aether Vial, Mutavault)
    Side out: Bojuka Bog, Ghost Quarter, Manabond
    Keycards: Combo Pieces, Punishing Grove

    Postboard, they will have a better game against you with graveyard hate and token control. Resolving Choke is huge.

    Reanimator: (even)
    This is a deck that tries to win through combat damage with a limited amount of creatures, of which most are Legendary. They also need multiple turns to win (at least four) and have limited ways of dealing with the token. This is why you have a reasonable shot at winning. If you can combo fast, you should. Bojuka Bog through crop rotation can cut them of at the very start, Karakas bounces their efforts, mazes or chasm will slow their play down. They use their life as a resource for reanimate and Griseldraw, which is limited if you can avoid them from connecting with Griselbrand (if they play reanimate on Griselbrand, they can only draw 7 once). Depending on the build, they might have Ashen Rider or Tidespout Tyrant to deal with Marit Lage or your defenses game 1. Besides non basics they usually have only one basic swamp and island, but as they are very mana-efficient, it's hard to mana lock them.
    They will side in: Pithing Needle (Wasteland, Maze, Karakas, Stage), Inkwell Leviathan
    Side in: 2 Dark Depths, Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Pithing Needle, depending on the remaining cards sided out, Sphere of Resistance, Chalice of the void
    Side out: Tabernacle, Tranquil Thicket, Punishing Fire (I personally keep Manabond in, might be additional spheres/chalices)

    Postboard they probably have Needle on Karakas or Maze of Ith, which hurts. You have Glacial Chasm as backup, and have your own Needle(s) for Griselbrand. Your mainplan is like game 1, to combo first or control their game with Bog/Karakas/Maze/Chasm. Spheres can help you to slow them down or perhaps mana lock them . If you're on the play a first turn chalice for one is game breaking, as it shuts down almost any card they play. Be careful later in the game with Chalice for one, as it shuts down crop rotation and gamble as well. Inkwell Leviathan bypasses Maze of Ith, Chasm is the only card that can hold him.
    Keycards: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Maze of Ith (Stage copying Maze), Glacial Chasm, Crop Rotation, combo pieces

    Team America: (Slightly Favorable)
    Unlike other delver decks, Team America plays Deathrite Shaman and can destroy our enchantments and artifacts with Abrupt Decay, feeding Tarmogoyfs and making us slower. Thus, a combination of Deathrite Shaman with fast delver, Counter Magic, a well played Wasteland and Abrupt decay can take Team America to the victory. Luckily for us, such things do not happen all the time and usually the classic plan of destroying their nonbasic manabase backed up by the Tabernacle or Mazes works perfectly. Try killing Deathrite Shaman with Punishing Fire ASAP, because it not only messes with our graveyard but allows them to accelerate into more creatures than we can handle. Note, that they will protect it with counter magic however.

    Side in: 3-4 Sphere of Resistance, Pithing Needle, Choke, Bojuka Bog
    Side out: Karakas, 4 Crop Rotation, Glacial Chasm (unless they play TNN), 1 Manabond

    The game doesn't change much after boarding. Things to note: sometimes they have Surgical Extraction and Bitterblossom which can champ our Marite Lage until we find Punishing Fire. With Golgari Charm they can regenerate Deathrite Shaman from Punishing Fire. Spheres will help with the land destruction plan, but sometimes it can be a double-edged sword if they destroy our Exploration and Waste our land with an attacker on the table. Sphere is very good on turn 1-2 and every time they have 2 or less lands, but play it with caution if they have some board presence. Choke is a viable option because Team America has a higher curve than other delver decks and also it implicitly binds their Deathrites.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Dice_Box; 01-03-2018 at 08:31 AM.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
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    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    The Hate:
    Combo Lands is quite a specialised deck that leans on a large number of Non Basic lands and a suite of unusual permanentes to execute it's game plan. This does have the effect of opening it up to some very unusual hate that is not often found elsewhere. Cards like Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Price of Progress and Tsabo's Web can be lethal against you. Here we will examine some of these cards in detail and what is the best plan against them.

    Graveyard Hate:
    Grave hate can be narrowed down to three categories, Single shot, Continuous and Pin Point. Each offers its own unique challenge and some are easier to deal with than others.

    Single shot describes the one shot, Grave wipe cards that are most commonly found in Artifacts. These are also likely the most common form of Grave hate you will see leveled against you. The most common options tend to be: Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb and sometimes Bojuka Bog. Defeating these cards comes down to either having removal or making your graveyard look too dangerous to handle and forcing their hand. These can also be played around by simply not using your Graveyard, something you can do with this deck.

    Continuous describes a group of cards that, once played, have a contentious effect on the Grave. The two most common are Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void. There are also some other unusual choices like Yixlid Jailer and Dryad Militant. Unfortunately, removal is the only option other than just accepting that your Grave has been cut off. If you expect one of the two Enchantments, bring in hate. You will need it.

    Pin Point in my view the most obnoxious class of hate. These cards are normally Instant speed spells or Abilities that are cast from hand or Creatures that have activated effects that utilise the Grave as a fuel source for their own effects. The more common cards in this list include Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze and to a limited point, Relic of Progenitus. A rare option that sometimes comes up is Faerie Macabre. Seen in older Burn lists, this card sees little play these days, but due to the possibility that someone with an older Burn lise might walk into your store I will list it for complication.

    Playing around these cards is really the only option, meaning that head of time you need to recognise the decks that are likely to use them and plan ahead. Saving a Loam can be done by holding a Tranquil Thicket to cycle in response and Punishing Fire can be saved by tapping Grove and paying for the trigger it creates. Note that Extirpate's Split Second effect does not stop you from getting back Punishing fire since Grove is a mana ability, it can be activated without use of the stack but it will just hose Loam. Sometimes they just have an out and you will have to deal with that.


    Land Hate:
    Land hate is a part of Legacy, a check that keeps the format balanced and rotating, it is also a major part of this decks own plan. It is only fitting then that what we use on others would also be the sword that is often brought to bear against us. From single targeted effects to a range of wide and painful effects that can outright hose this deck, land hate offers a look into a mixed bag on one of the more interesting if now not often printed parts of this games history. The cards most commonly thought of when someone thinks about land hate in legacy is (Well if you have been around awhile) Sinkhole, Stone Rain and Wasteland. Two of these cards no longer seeing much if any play and the other a cornerstone of the Format. There are others though, mostly Artifacts and Enchantments that can make your life hard and it is these cards I wish to explore here.

    Back to Basics to me have some of the most spot on flavour text in the game, some people own all the Duals others hose them for it. What this card means for us often is that we will only ever untap once until we find hate. A smart player will wait for you to tap out and then drop it, forcing you to make several land drops before you can remove the card. As a good rule of thumb, Basics are better than Duals unless you need that extra colour now. This card will slow you down, but it does not kill you. I have been under no pressure, had this card land and then just drawn into the combo and killed the player with this card. This is a rare event though and this card spells bad news and needs to be dealt with as soon as you can.

    Blood Moon is just evil. If you think someone is running this, fetch your basic as soon as you can and dig for hate. I would prioritise this over the combo because often decks with Blood Moon can drop it on their first turn. You can gamble and go for the kill, just do not expect it will pay off that often against a Painter or Stompy deck.

    Deathrite Shaman is a common problem if you can not kill it fast. It can be used to pick away at your lands, Loam and Fires until you remove it. Punishing Fire it if you can first, then worry about other cards.
    Note: It has be mentioned that a trick to end a stand off against DRS is, if you have a Grip in hand you can target something with it, then tap Grove while Split second is in effect to get your Fire back. Useful and tricky, keep it in mind if you end up in this situation.

    Pithing Needle seems mundane at first, but it causes headaches like you would never believe. Used mostly to shut down the Combo, it can also target Fetches, Canopy, Wasteland, Maze and Karakas. While it can never hit all these things at the same time, it rarely needs too and will play havoc with whatever will either answer their board state or what you need at the moment to advance your own.

    Price of Progress is painful as it comes and Burn decks will almost always be running it. It is also found in the sideboards of U/R Delver lists, making them a touch on the unfun side too. Your outs to this card come down to three options, first you can Crop rotate into a Chasm to prevent the damage, the second option is that of Zuran Orb and the last choice is to Wasteland your own lands. Really not a great amount of fun. Burn is a hard match, sometimes you just have to grin and bear it.

    Tsabo's Web is a colourless Back to Basics that really only hits you. Sounds great does it not? Luckily, it misses many of your mana sources and lets you stay in the game but it locks out many of your utility lands. It is seeing an uptick in play of late thanks to Lands strong placing in the format and I would say you should expect to see this card at larger events.

    Winter Orb is a rare one. Normally seen as a colourless hoser for large mana decks like 12 Post, or Miracles in the sideboard of some Delver builds. A very rare card these days, it was once a lot more popular in control builds. I would not expect to see a lot of it but keep it in mind.


    Decklists:



    Other Resources:
    Video Primer:
    A video primer can be found here if that is more your speed.

    SCG did a Deck Tech with David Long, it is worth a watch due to the in depth nature of both the disscussion and Long's understanding of the deck.

    Podcasts:
    If you want to know the basics, but you are more of an auditory learner, try Legacy Breakfast's two part podcast on this build of lands.

    Tournament Reports
    In the next few days I will be adding to this section.

    Videos:
    Star City Games:
    Kurt Spiess (Lands) vs Jesse Hatfield (BUG Delver)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwdWj_RAUew

    Jeremy Hsu (BUG Delver) vs Kurt Spiess (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv9B3vs7Sag

    Kurt Spiess (Lands) vs Daryl Ayers (RUG Delver)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdeQIuF-49M

    Kurt Spiess (Lands) vs Chris Yarbough (RUG Delver)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciC7HlXX7SA

    Gerry Thompson (Lands) vs Ben Friedman (Patriot Delver)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG1ICUvCMvY

    Blake Patraw (Slivers) vs Nick Leaf (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz3qkkEDuIQ

    Nick Leaf (Lands) vs Craig Spitzer (Reanimator)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNFwOdU3KgY

    Julian Knab (Elves) vs David Long (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKwMWZwr9v4

    Joe Lossett (Miracles) vs Daniel Lawver (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW84Z_qBmHk

    Marc Konig (DnT) vs David Long (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anuSJ9Jzzbs

    Chris Andersen (Lands) vs Jack Fogle (Miracles)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ucy5mPVbY

    Rudy Briksza (Shardless BUG) vs David Long (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2581FQVnOs

    Nick Leaf (Lands) vs Craig Spitzer (Reanimator)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNFwOdU3KgY

    Blake Patraw (Silvers) vs Nick Leaf (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz3qkkEDuIQ

    Gerry Thompson (Lands) vs Ben Friedman (Patriot Delver)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG1ICUvCMvY

    Andrew Jessup (Elves) vs David Long (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_7GBGaUFYs

    Kevin Jones (Blade Control) vs David Long (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7IwzZPCr_0

    Blake Sanford (Lands) vs David Long (Lands) (Mirror Match)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1-I5Ckbpyw

    Andrew Boswell (RUG Delver) vs Blake Sanford (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIAhswr2kLs

    Chris Andersen (Lands) vs Jack Fogle (Miracles)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ucy5mPVbY

    Eternal Weekend:
    Nick Miller (Infect) vs Kevin King (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9422PBtnvbo

    Akash Naidu (Omnitell) vs Kevin King (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG-qKxNOQoY

    George Flete (Merfolk) vs Kevin King (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=778lNNekWCo

    George Flete (Merfolk) vs Kevin King (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZoQ5MBxUkg

    GP's:
    GP Lille
    Leon Schulhof (Miracles) vs Branco Neirynck (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnn2QghUZ0g

    GP Sea-Tac
    Lisa Seelye (Lands) vs. Owen Turtenwald (Sneak and Show)
    https://youtu.be/KNdrctoN554?t=7m10s

    Eric Brown (Shardless BUG) vs. Jarvis Yu (Lands)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONRIRL7n0pU

    Jarvis Yu (Lands) vs. Martin Goldman-Kirst (Aluren)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEPFPZE7CGk

    Jarvis Yu (Lands) vs. Brian Demars (UWR Miracles)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caDJURkSAYE

    Jarvis Yu (Lands) vs. Christian Calcano (Grixis Delver)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TYfkQi9N-E

    From our own gigapatrick:
    Building a Fortress Playlist

    Sample Hands:
    Hand one:
    Maze of Ith, Gamble, Misty Rainforest, Crop Rotation, Horizon Canopy, Taiga, Grove of the Burnwillows.

    Lets analyze what we have here. Two tutors, some Creature control, a Draw land and lots of fuel. Seams to have it all yes? Well no. What this hand has is a plan, what it lacks is the speed to pull it off. While it is tempting, this is not a hand I would keep. For example, would you keep this hand if the Gamble was a Loam and the Rotation was gone? At that point all you have is mana and no plan and that is a very real risk when you Gamble for Loam. Granted, you can Rotate for a combo piece and then gamble for the other, but it too is a risk. You can do better on 6.

    Down to Six:
    Punishing Fire, Horizon Canopy, Grove of the Burnwillows, Life from the Loam, Wasteland, Maze of Ith.

    So no tutors but a much better hand. While the last hand had a plan that was a long shot on the chance of a quick combo, this one is playing the long game. You can hold off most creature decks, abid slowly, with this hand. Let's say we are playing against someone who does not know what we are on and with that, form a plan. First, what Land do we want to play first? Due to the two mana cost spells, Maze is not an option. That leaves us with Grove, Canopy and Wasteland. Wasteland I think is the worst of these options, you want to bait someone into the card, not advertise you have it. You are hoping to be able to slow them down with a well timed hit to the mana base. That leaves Grove and Canopy.

    Now we have to ask the question "What does each land tell our opponent?" Canopy makes us look like Death and Taxes on a slow hand, Grove means we will likely be put on Jund or Lands but is also transmits that our deck is playing Punishing Fire, this can edit their own moves. Also, of these two cards, I would personally rather lose Canopy to a Wasteland. Since they both make green, I think that is the best choice for an opening land drop.

    Play Horizon canopy, Pass.

    Our opponent plays a Misty, cracks Misty into Underground Sea and then plays Deathrite. We can shorten the list of decks we are playing against to BUG and Deathblade. This means that Punishing Fire is by far the greatest card in our hand right now and Wasteland is not too bad if we can remove that Deathrite from the table. The plan in my mind would be to drop the Grove, take a point off the Canopy, give them a point off the Grove and burn the DRS.

    Turn two, card drawn: Tranquil Thicket.
    Our draw step does nothing to change our plan, lay the Grove and go for the DRS with your burn.

    Grove, Punishing Fire on the DRS, pass.

    Our opponent plays a Bayou, casts a Goyf and passes back. So now we really have to options, you can Maze them or you can play Wasteland. There is no pressing need to Dredge right now and in my view drawing is more useful than Dredging right now.

    Turn three, card drawn: Crop Rotation.
    Not a bad pull that one, time to examine our choices. What does Rotation get us right now? I would argue not a lot, but it is a good option for later. So lay down the Mase or the Wasteland? With Maze we stop a hit from the Gofy, with Waste we put them back a turn. One could argue that we can afford to take the hit right now, the chance of causing issues with their mana overweighs stopping a 3 power Goyf this turn. So the question becomes; what do we Waste? Your options are Underground Sea and Bayou, meaning they are likely on BUG. I think the most important thing to do in this situation would be to stop them from fixing their mana. If they can not make another drop from their hand they will want to use cantrips to solve the issue. My target would be Underground Sea for this reason.

    Wasteland, waste the Underground.

    So now we still have two mana open and we have three choices, we can Loam and get back the Wasteland or we can return the Punishing Fire to our hand and Cycle the Thicket. The last option is sac the Canopy, a choice I feel is weakest. As it was last turn, I feel the play is not to Loam. Again we have more options off the draw and if we Cycle the Thicket, we give ourselves another target for the Loam.

    Pass the turn.

    Our opponent attacks, we take the damage and then he casts Thoughtseize. Change of plans then. Right now the only two targets he has are Loam and Rotation. It is best to cast Rotation and leave him only the Loam as a target, but what do we sacrifice? Right now, in my opinion the best land to sacrifice is the Canopy. It is only giving us one of our colours and it hurts us. The question is what do we go for? I think these are the best options: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Wasteland, Bojuka Bog or the Basic Forest.

    Bog in interesting, but right now of no use, this is in my mind the least useful of the options. Tabernacle will turn the thumbscrews, but it does not produce mana and next turn we would like to cast Loam. That said we have two chances to do so with the Thicket in hand, so it is an option. Wasteland lets us take them to zero or one land dependent on if they can play one in their second main and Forest leaves us Wasteland prof. What would you do? I leave that to you.


    Hand two:
    Life from the Loam, Thespian's Stage, Ghost Quarter, Grove of the Burnwillows, Dark Depths, Manabond, Exploration.

    This is the kind of hand I wish I always opened with and did not just draw for an experiment. What we have is almost the perfect hand. With one more mana in place of the Exploration, you would be making a Witch on your first turn and attacking with it on your second. Instead, you are looking at a turn 3 punch with a Loam in hand just in case you need it. The opening land will have to be Grove then leaving you to pause on what to cast with it, Manabond or Exploration. In this case, since we are not looking at a turn two win there is no reason to push Manabond here. You will want to keep it in hand should you need it. We would roll out Exploration and then follow with the Quater. The plan being that you would not wish to show your hand and spook an opponent into opening with land destruction.

    Disruption against this hand is limited to Counters and Land control. Someone who understands how to play against this deck is likely to counter the Exploration since the speed it offers is a threat that once landed, is difficult to answer. The issue is, with the combo in hand, speed or land disruption are the only real outs an opponent has to stopping the creation of the token. To make matters worse, if the token can be dealt with by something like Swords to Plowshares, the Loam gives redundancy. This is very close to the perfect hand.



    Credits:
    This primer was a joint effort with help from a team of helpful people, I would like to thank the following for their help:

    door: Proofreading, Matchup analysis and useful suggestions.
    Lt. Quattro: Compiling and formatting the Video section.
    Rivfader: Jointly writing the Card analysis, Matchup analysis, the Banner at the top of the Primer and no small amount of useful suggestions.
    Last edited by Dice_Box; 11-16-2015 at 10:38 AM.
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    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    To add:

    As far as I can tell, the first placing with this deck is this list by Kurt Spiess on the 26, only a week after it became legal. I will see what I can find out, but at this point unless new information comes to light I will be seeking to credit him with design of the deck.

    Add blue splash
    Add EE: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16245&iddeck=121374

    Deck Name: Name here Player name
    Maindeck Maindeck Sideboard
    First half of main
    Second half of main
    Insert Sideboard here
    60 Cards 15 Cards

    Due to a lack of access to my PC right now, I am going to use this space for formating and then add to the main body once I have a mouse to use.

    The Artifact Build.
    There has been some pushes of late to fuse together the two most common Land's builds. The two decks, R/G and RUG are quite a distance apart when it comes to design, card choice and plans but that does not mean that one can not learn from the other. In trying to do this, some players have added small splashes of Blue to add Artifact recursion as well as a small suite of specialised Artifacts. There are also other builds that do this without Blue by using a different Artifact recursion land. We will examine each one now.

    Academy Ruins
    The most effective of the recursion lands due to the permanent effects of its ability. Unlike the other Ruins, Academy stays in play after use. The card does not come without it's issues though. The commitment to Blue can weaken your Mana base and Academy's effect does not place the card in your hand, it places it on top of your Library. Unfortunately, by placing the card on the top of your Library you may have to delay a turn before gaining the effects of whatever it is you are turning to use. Still the ability to do this repeatedly is nothing to scoff at. It also means you can stop yourself from being decked by placing an Artifact on the top of your Library even if you have no cards. If you do this with a Mox you can then play it, refuse to pay the cost and send it back to the grave and loop this effect over and over. A tricky way to win if you have to.

    Buried Ruin
    The Colourless recursion land. This offers a different set of effects while doing much the same task as Academy. First it does not demand the addition of another colour, useful as it can slide into a deck with minimal overall change to the decks skeleton. Secondly, while it does have the additional cost of having to Sacrifice itself in it's activation, the target will be placed straight into your hand. Useful if you are trying to do something immediately or time is short.

    [Cards]
    Last edited by Dice_Box; 04-20-2015 at 10:19 AM.
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    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
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    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Awesome primer, great job!

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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Nice job, Dice. This is excellent work.

    I hate to play against this deck (cuz it's a tough deck that hits from weird angles). But even ugly, mean, sneaky, insidious, treacherous things can be described with eloquence; that's just what you did. Unfortunately for me, this thread will only inspire more people to play this rascal of a deck.
    Last edited by Lord_of_Rivendell; 02-14-2015 at 09:45 PM.

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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    @ Dice_Box: awesome! Perhaps you could add a section for tournament-reports?

    @ Lord_of_Rivendell: inspired... Perhaps, but it's an expensive deck, with expensive niche-cards, most notably The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. I hope, for your sake, you won't have that much new Lands-players
    "Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."

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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Thanx again Dice and all the primer team, this is one of the best primers I ever read! (Edit - why did you keep the name R/G Combo Lands? I supposed you were going to rename the deck as RG Lands - as it is written in the primer)

    I'd like to know your opinion about this list by Brandon Semerau, winning a SCG Invitational Qualifier. It's a hybrid between RG and RUG Lands, or better it's RG Lands with a very light blue splash of a single Tropical Island for an Academy Ruins toolbox of Engineered Explosives and Zuran Orb:


    The aim of the list seems to improve resilience with the versatility of the tools, at the expanse of the speed and straightforwardness of the deck, a sort of compromise between RG and RUG Lands. It runs 4 Punishing Fire and a very high 3x Tranquil Thicket, probably to support the sideboard (see below) and increase the probability to be able to save Life from the Loam from graveyard hate. Bojuka Bog is maindeck too, while Manabond is totally absent.

    The sideboard is even more unconventional. Adding, maybe, 4x Deathrite Shaman to increase the availability in addiction to Karakas and Mox Diamond, it gets access to Solitary Confinement. It's an interesting tool against bad matchups like ANT, burn and maybe S&T. The list supports it very well thanks to Life from the Loam in conjunction with a draw-land, and hence the reason for the 3x Tranquil Thicket. Tranquil Thicket is much better than Horizon Canopy in this context, allowing you to go on building your land setup even in absence of Exploration.

    I'm not totally sure about the function of the 4x Deathrite Shaman: maybe it's just the best color fixer available, thanks to the versatility of being also hate against Reanimator and Dredge, and an alternative (slow) wincon when the game is stalled.

    I don't like the total absence of Krosan Grip: it seems that the list just accepts to autoloose to Blood Moon and Rest in Peace.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Morte; 02-16-2015 at 03:43 PM.
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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    I imagine it's very difficult to set-up academy ruins without either intuition grabbing all of the pieces at once or having tolaria west to grab them over a few turns. Needing to use crop rotations and gambles to set up the explosives loop seems like a lot of effort that can probably be better spent just killing them. I'm definitely curious about it though since the complete inability to answer non-creature permanents in the main is by far my biggest problem with this version of lands.

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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    cool!
    great job
    byes are for girls!

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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Morte View Post
    Thanx again Dice and all the primer team, this is one of the best primers I ever read! (Edit - why did you keep the name R/G Combo Lands? I supposed you were going to rename the deck as RG Lands - as it is written in the primer)

    I'd like to know your opinion about this list by Brandon Semerau, winning a SCG Invitational Qualifier. It's a hybrid between RG and RUG Lands, or better it's RG Lands with a very light blue splash of a single Tropical Island for an Academy Ruins toolbox of Engineered Explosives and Zuran Orb
    I decided on Combo lands because I feel like that is mostly what people will know it as when they are looking for it. I want a way to separate the two threads that is more noticeable than just adding two letters to the title. It is a descriptive and accurate title.

    On that list, I would like to look into it, but at this point I feel it is more an oddity than a solid direction. As I have never played it, I would rather leave it be until I have either had a chance to play it, watch it be played or see some reports on it. I do not like that it leans more on Loam to get a secondary engine going, but it might be worth a chance. Let me test it and get back to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    @ Dice_Box: awesome! Perhaps you could add a section for tournament-reports?
    I will add this in the coming days, likely tonight after I get home from Legacy or tomorrow after Modern.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
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  11. #11

    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Morte View Post
    I'd like to know your opinion about this list by Brandon Semerau, winning a SCG Invitational Qualifier.
    Thoughts?
    1 EE and Academy Ruins is very random. Like SupremePINAPPLE sais, you have to invest gamble and crop rotations in this, but both cards are carddisadvantage so I doubt it's worth the effort. Running 2 EE seems better, you'd have more chance of naturally drawing one, and if necessary tutor for the Ruins.
    You could drop the tickets and replace them with an additional TropIsle and two Tolaria West, for a more consistent hybrid RUG - RG lands version. That I've tried myself but it felt like a worse version of both RUG/RG. I think if you really want an allround solution, you're better off splashing black for Abrupt Decay (instead of a KGrip or a Pfire).

    The sideboard really leaves me clueless, would be nice if Brandon Semerau himself would shed some light on this.

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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Ye, the SB is really strange. Why the Solitary Confinements? Not even with a Savannah to reliably get it into play?
    and why Deathrite Shaman over sth like Dark Confidant? What's the role of this card in Lands?

    Some questions because I'm new to this deck:
    1) Doesn't it make sense to play 1 Ancient Grudge 1 Ray of Revelation instead of just plain 4 Krosan Grip? (usual sideboards)
    2) Also, how do you board Spheres/Thorns? Obviously you board it in vs. Combo, but do you also board it in every Blue matchup or only some?
    3) Have you tested Faithless Looting? Is it definitely worse than Gamble?
    4) Xenagos, the Reveler instead of Assault/Titan, thoughts?
    5) Red Elemental Blast to fight decks like Show and Tell better?
    6) Last one: Sweepers: Pyroclasm, Firespout, Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge to fight decks like Death and Taxes and Elves (can be tough sometimes)

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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexeezay View Post
    Ye, the SB is really strange. Why the Solitary Confinements? Not even with a Savannah to reliably get it into play?
    and why Deathrite Shaman over sth like Dark Confidant? What's the role of this card in Lands?

    Some questions because I'm new to this deck:
    1) Doesn't it make sense to play 1 Ancient Grudge 1 Ray of Revelation instead of just plain 4 Krosan Grip? (usual sideboards)
    Grip hits everything, does it in a near uncountable way and is on colour unlike Ray. I use a Grudge but I am leaning towards going back to four Grip mostly to just have an answer regardless of situation.

    2) Also, how do you board Spheres/Thorns? Obviously you board it in vs. Combo, but do you also board it in every Blue matchup or only some?
    Bring it in against combo, leave it out against everything else. There are decks it hurts and most of the decks it does nothing to, the main is already set up to defeat.

    3) Have you tested Faithless Looting? Is it definitely worse than Gamble?
    Gamble is a tutor that more or less reads "Loam 5-8". Yes, Looting is worse.

    4) Xenagos, the Reveler instead of Assault/Titan, thoughts?
    Its shit, Assault helps you against decks that run Moon and Titan will help you arrange your Combo. What does Xenagos offer us in situations where we are behind and need to catch up?

    5) Red Elemental Blast to fight decks like Show and Tell better?
    No space and it offers nothing little in the way of a plan. Drop an early Thorn and slow them while you combo. Be proactive, not reactive. If you want to be playing a more reactive build of lands, try Jund Depths.

    6) Last one: Sweepers: Pyroclasm, Firespout, Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge to fight decks like Death and Taxes and Elves (can be tough sometimes)
    The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Here is some additional thoughts on what you said .

    2. Spheres and Thorns - You actually want to bring them some of the MUC controls lists as they are fairly land light and there is an argument for bringing them in against Miracles. While I wouldn't bring them in against Miracles personally I know guys like Kurt bring them in in this match-up. I have seen resistor effects brought in against blue/red delver on the play as well which is interesting. I am not sure if it is correct but I think you could make an argument for bringing in these effects against some of the non-combo creature light matchups.

    3. I tested faithless looting pretty early in this decks development and while I though it was actually good it just wasn't as powerful as gamble and it effects you game one win % because loam is so important in that plan.

    4. Xenagos actually isn't shit, its just really specific. Xenagos is insane in the Miracles match up because the haste on the centaurs is super good against them. Strange but true. I cut it for Titan which is just more powerful in more matchups

    6. Elves is a pretty easy matchup actually but it is something you should practice to get a feel for what is going on

  15. #15
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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    I'm not entirely sure how to put this, but here goes:

    Two scenario's:

    1) I have Dark Depths, with six counters on it, in play. My opponent casts Blood Moon. A turn later, I'm able to destroy Blood Moon; does Dark Depths comes back with a) six counters or b) gets the full ten counters, i.e. does Dark Depths remembers what state it had prior to Blood Moon.

    2) There is a Blood Moon in play. I play Dark Depths, which comes into play with ten counters, then after the (if I'm correct) replacement-effect becomes a Mountain. I then get rid of Blood Moon, does Dark Depths comes back with ten counters?

    TL;DR: what's the effect of Blood Moon on the counters on Dark Depths in different scenario's.

    Maybe it's a stupid question, but I really want to have this clear in my head, so whenever this will occur during a friendly game or during a tournament I know what will happen.
    "Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."

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  16. #16

    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Blood moon doesn't affect the counters in either scenario. They stay on existing lands and any new dark depths that are played etb with 10 ice counters even when moon is on the field.

    It's not changing anything about the lands except for the type (basic mountain). The don't enter or leave the battlefield at all. It's kinda the same idea as putting counters on a morph, they still stay on the creature even after it's flipped up.

  17. #17
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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE View Post
    Blood moon doesn't affect the counters in either scenario. They stay on existing lands and any new dark depths that are played etb with 10 ice counters even when moon is on the field.

    It's not changing anything about the lands except for the type (basic mountain). The don't enter or leave the battlefield at all. It's kinda the same idea as putting counters on a morph, they still stay on the creature even after it's flipped up.
    Thank you!
    "Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."

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    That actually sounds erotic.
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  18. #18

    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexeezay View Post

    Some questions because I'm new to this deck:

    5) Red Elemental Blast to fight decks like Show and Tell better?
    6) Last one: Sweepers: Pyroclasm, Firespout, Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge to fight decks like Death and Taxes and Elves (can be tough sometimes)
    I noticed some Asian deckbuilders experiment with cards like REB, Volcanic fallout, Golgari Charm. Personally I don't like the REB's versus the bluebased combodecks, they mostlikely counter you right back. Also, S&T players tend to board out some S&T for Through the Breach (to avoid cards like Ashen Rider), so your REB would do less than you'd think.

    If you really want a sweeper, Volcanic Fallout is the best option as it's uncounterable. If you splash black, I like Toxic Deluge most as it sweeps everything (TNN as well).

  19. #19
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    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    @ Rivfader; are you still splashing black? If so, how does your current deck looks like?
    "Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
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    That actually sounds erotic.
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  20. #20

    Re: R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    @ Rivfader; are you still splashing black? If so, how does your current deck looks like?
    I still splash black for 2 Abrupt Decay. I moved one to the maindeck and shaved the 4th Pfire to clear up space in the sideboard. I also cut one thicket for a maindeck bog. As I have the habit of wanting to stuff too much in a deck, I run 61 cards main.

    2 Taiga
    1 Bayou
    1 Forest
    3 Wooded Foothills
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Karakas
    1 Tabernacle
    1 Glacial Chasm
    4 Thespian's Stage
    2 Dark Depths
    3 Maze of Ith

    3 Punishing Fire
    1 Abrupt Decay
    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Gamble
    4 Crop Rotation
    2 Manabond
    4 Exploration

    Which makes my current sideboard look like this:
    1 Depths
    2 Krosan Grip
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Primeval Titan
    1 Seismic Assault
    4 sphere of resistance
    2 chalice of the void
    1 Null Rod
    2 Pithing Needle

    I think Decay is slightly worse than Krosan Grip versus Miracles (can't reliably hit top), can't target Sneak Attack, can't target high casting cost artifacts, and is almost useless versus Bloodmoon. I compensate with Seismic Assault (Blood Moon), Null Rod (artifacts), 2 Pithing Needle(Top, Sneak Attack). Abrupt Decay does have the considerable upside of being applicable versus almost any deck, and deal with cards too random to actively side against them (Needle, Meddling Mage). This deck runs some cards that often are sided out, like Karakas or Bojuka Bog (or Ghostquarter/Chasm), Abrupt Decay usually takes their place.

    It is experimental, but it works for me.

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