[Primer] R/G Lands

[kravkenov]

I'm kind of surprised you opt for GQ over Port in a combo-heavy meta. I've usually found Ports to be more effective against most combo.

My feelings is that against combo, most of the time GQ act like a wasteland and it's very effective. Port is a bit more slow (can't use it by its own until you have another mana to invest, and it is usually not the case until turn 3 if you want to play your game plan) but it's not bad. I really enjoy Port and it's my default mana denial plan for any big tournament :)

[Ciubulu]

Well, ain't that nice to know!

Question to all: GQ are out, Ports go in?

I play a 3 ports/1 gq split and never missed the 4th port. In the long game I can copy them with stages if needed and still have the option to tutor gq vs decks with few basics.

[djxstream]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...gue-2017-06-02

2 Lands list 5-0'd today...one interesting with the 4 chalices main. Thoughts on that config? I for one cant see the benefit in having them g1 when we rely so heavily on the tutors and exploration.

[Ingo]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...gue-2017-06-02

2 Lands list 5-0'd today...one interesting with the 4 chalices main. Thoughts on that config? I for one cant see the benefit in having them g1 when we rely so heavily on the tutors and exploration.

Chalice is like a reverse exploration I guess. Your opponents game is hampered, while you filter out 1 drops by dredging. Still, playing chalice on one and not having loam is a dangerous thing, as you nuked your own ability to tutor up anything. Bwish might be nice to replace gamble though, as a non-1-mana tutor for loam.

[Crimhead]

My feelings is that against combo, most of the time GQ act like a wasteland and it's very effective.

Storm, Reanimator, and Sneak Show all run basics. Elves too. GQ will do nothing against these decks the first time you activate. Port can slow them down while you find a lock piece or assemble a fast combo.

[Sparkii]

Storm, Reanimator, and Sneak Show all run basics. Elves too. GQ will do nothing against these decks the first time you activate. Port can slow them down while you find a lock piece or assemble a fast combo.

I definitely enjoy quarters more against combo postboard. Often you can assemble a tax piece early but if you just draw terribly, your opponent usually just cantrips out from it or draws more land. With quarter you give them a "find answer or die" clock which is great. I understand the appeal of ports; I played them for years, but personally preference leans me towards quarters. ANT, Elves and Reanimator are on 2, 3 basics max. It's very easy to strip them out. I won my match against ANT last week because I ripped Loam off the top with active quarter and stripped him down to 1 basic so he couldn't echoing truth my tax piece.

[non-inflammable]

Bwish might be nice to replace gamble though, as a non-1-mana tutor for loam.

i played a fun list with 4 living wish. could be fun to put it back together with 4 chalice main?

[Ciubulu]

I definitely enjoy quarters more against combo postboard. Often you can assemble a tax piece early but if you just draw terribly, your opponent usually just cantrips out from it or draws more land. With quarter you give them a "find answer or die" clock which is great. I understand the appeal of ports; I played them for years, but personally preference leans me towards quarters. ANT, Elves and Reanimator are on 2, 3 basics max. It's very easy to strip them out. I won my match against ANT last week because I ripped Loam off the top with active quarter and stripped him down to 1 basic so he couldn't echoing truth my tax piece.

That's exactly why I play the split. I can crop/gamble the quarter if needed and still be able to negate them access to mana with ports G1.
I would like to play more than one but at the moment there is a wide variety of decks and I prefer to play more utility lands for unexpected/unusual mu's than have a more focused deck that sometimes lose from random decks.

[Ingo]

Storm, Reanimator, and Sneak Show all run basics. Elves too. GQ will do nothing against these decks the first time you activate. Port can slow them down while you find a lock piece or assemble a fast combo.

I also like ports more versus combo. They add an additional taks-effect upon spheres, while not setting your own mana back. Quarters usually take 1-2 activations before they become stripmines, and I also feel like you haven't got the time to pull that off. I like quarters more versus creaturebased decks, making Tabernacle a hardlock (while they can still pay for Tabernacle with ports).

i played a fun list with 4 living wish. could be fun to put it back together with 4 chalice main?

I'd say go for it. We're in an experimental period after the ban, if you wanna test crazy things you always wanted to do, the time is now :)

[Dice_Box]

What would people put in a Burning Wish sideboard?

[Ingo]

What would people put in a Burning Wish sideboard?

BWish was mentioned because of a landsdeck playing maindeck chalice.
So the biggest boon seems to me that you can play chalice1, and topdeck both loam and Wish (for loam) to filter the deck.

I guess we'd also benefit from the following:

- artifact-enchantment removal: check (Reverent Silence, Hull Breach, ... )
- creature sweeper: check (Pyroclasm, ...)
- manadenial: check (Tsunami)

- tutoring for combopieces: ...
- combo hate: ...

BWish seems to have interesting options for fair decks, but hardly ways to combo faster or to disrupt opposing combo.

[Dice_Box]

I had a quick look and come up with some other options too:

Sylvan Scrying
Scapeshift
Treasure hunt

This could be an interesting thought experiment.

[Ingo]

I had a quick look and come up with some other options too:

Sylvan Scrying
Scapeshift
Treasure hunt

This could be an interesting thought experiment.

Worm Harvest as an alternative wincon
And if you splash black, Last Rites (Kurt Spiess played this in one of his first lists), Toxic Deluge and Slaughtergames

[Sparkii]

Worm Harvest as an alternative wincon
And if you splash black, Last Rites (Kurt Spiess played this in one of his first lists), Toxic Deluge and Slaughtergames

Man Last Rites is a throwback. I used to play that in lands lists circa 2013-2014 alongside raven's crime in the main.

[kravkenov]

Storm, Reanimator, and Sneak Show all run basics. Elves too. GQ will do nothing against these decks the first time you activate. Port can slow them down while you find a lock piece or assemble a fast combo.

Storm and Reanimator really slow they game-plan if they fetch for basics early turns. Sneak-Show and Elves are usually not turn-1 combo. IMO in any of these MUs, Ghost Quarter is very efficient. But overall, I think the most important is to be comfortable with your list, whatever you play Port or Quarter ;)

[Ingo]

Man Last Rites is a throwback. I used to play that in lands lists circa 2013-2014 alongside raven's crime in the main.

Dont take it too serious because its just some freestyle toughtexperimenting,
Or a nostalic trip through 2013 memory lane in your case

[Epeirogeny]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...gue-2017-06-02

2 Lands list 5-0'd today...one interesting with the 4 chalices main. Thoughts on that config? I for one cant see the benefit in having them g1 when we rely so heavily on the tutors and exploration.

Chalice in the Main seems interesting. The other list, yekcat's has been topping consistently. The question is it the list or the pilot?


As far as GQ vs R.Port. Is it also a matter of timing? In paper Ports are much easier to use. Online, they are very time consuming as burn a lot of your clock.

[Dice_Box]

In the face of a DRS or Cradle against Elves, I have traded a Ghost Quarter for them getting a basic more than once. Sure, they are up a land, but now they are either down a massive mana producer or they can eat my Loam.

[Ingo]

In the face of a DRS or Cradle against Elves, I have traded a Ghost Quarter for them getting a basic more than once. Sure, they are up a land, but now they are either down a massive mana producer or they can eat my Loam.

I catalog Elves in the fair decks compartment, as they succomb to all the nastiness we have versus fair decks. Infect too. I never board combohate (chalice, sphere, ...) against these decks.

It's against S&T, Storm or Reanimator where I like Port more. Depending on the number of hate I board, I usually board out some loams as well (as I want to draw into hate instead of dredging), which is probably also a reason why I prefer the loam-independant port.

[kravkenov]

It's against S&T, Storm or Reanimator where I like Port more. Depending on the number of hate I board, I usually board out some loams as well (as I want to draw into hate instead of dredging), which is probably also a reason why I prefer the loam-independant port.

The thing is that in the very early turns, where Storm and Reanimator operate (and Sneak-Show in a lesser extent), Porting on turn-1 dont let you developing your game-plan AND aggressively mana-denial them. Porting turn-1 mean you dont do anything else (except of a very *very* good hand of having Exploration+Mox). For these two particular MUs, forcing them to play only basics is usually enough to buy you the time needed to lock them properly later one. But as I said before, for me the most important thing is to be confortable with the list you play.