Did 1k over the weekend at The Geekery in NYC. Would love some feedback and any tips for the dnt matchup as that was my only 2 loses...
List:
// 60 Maindeck
// 4 Artifact
4 Mox Diamond
// 6 Enchantment
1 Molten Vortex
4 Exploration
1 Sylvan Library
// 8 Instant
3 Punishing Fire
4 Crop Rotation
1 Red Elemental Blast
// 34 Land
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths
2 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Mishra's Factory
// 8 Sorcery
4 Life from the Loam
4 Gamble
// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Artifact
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Tireless Tracker
// 2 Enchantment
SB: 2 Choke
// 6 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
Yes a main deck REB. Wanted to hedge my bets vs a main deck back to basics and show/tell. However it was a non-factor all 5 game 1s.
Report:
Round 1: DnT - Chris
G1 - Lose the die roll and mull to 5, not a great start, but it had mox, loam and bog, port, ghost quarter. Then i get my mox revokered and continue to draw 2 more moxes...just concede because i know this matchup goes long and i cant do anything without colored mana.
Board is +3 tracker +2 grip +1 grudge +1 surgical. -1 REB -2 mox -2 gamble -1 chasm -1 bog
G2 - Answers on answers on answers. I play a t2 loam w/ another loam in hand. Surgical, i counter with a surgical of my own failing to find others, like the one in my hand. Next turn he has faerie macrabe to target my loam, I have thicket. Then his next turn I just feel it coming, sanctum prelate. I respond by crop rotating for barbarian ring and that beings a tremendously long game that I eventually come out on top.
G3 - My opener was interesting and it came back to bite me. 3 lands, 2 trackers, 1 crop rotation. figure multiple trackers would do enough work. never got a chance to cast them. He had port doing work, but then the kicker, a cataclysm. I never bounced back and lost to a crusarder and flickerwship beats.
Round 2: Miracles - Devin
G1 - My opponent went to time in round 1, so i had the edge of knowing he was on miracles. Ports keep him in check and eventually I get a massive field of lands that I'm able to every turn port 2 lands and attack and double pump mishra's factory. I never made more than 1 factory a creature for fear of terminus.
Boarding is +3 tracker +2 grip +1 pyroblast +2 choke +2 surgical, -4 gamble -1 loam -1 tab -1 chasm -2 maze -1 bog
G2 - My first turn I jam sylvan library w/ mox help, it resolves. man is that card good. my opener included a choke. I wasn't going to cast it my next turn because he hasnt tapped any islands yet. So i'm able to wait and get the cards i need with library. I end up taking 4 extra cards in the game, one of them being a pyroblast. when i finally cast the choke, it was met with a Force pitching Force. then hello Pyroblast. My opponent never bounced back.
Round 3: Burn - Gabriel
G1 - Luckily won the die roll and had a fast hand. I was unsure this player was on burn at the start of our match. Made a quick marit lage with mox & 3 lands & a crop rotation. He untapped his turn 3 with me at 5 and didnt have enough due to me able to block the eidolon in play.
Boarding is +2 grip, +1 grudge, +2 surgical. -2 maze -1 vortex -1 tabernacle -1 reb
G2 - Burned me out with marit lage on the table via a 2nd goblin guide + flame rift. I did do a play before I made marit lage to bait a price early, but the flame rift made that mute. With mox, wasteland, grove on field at the end of their t3. crop rotation/depths in hand. he had 3 untapped mana, which screams price of progress to me. I rotate the grove for stage and make it a mountain. with that on the stack he price's me for 4 damage. I then play depths and combo. Without that move I take an extra 2 damage on my turn.
G3 - Like g1, a mox, half the combo and a crop rotation get me there. Feels like that matchup is based on the die roll, all 3 games would of went the other way if that player had another turn.
Round 4: DnT - Ryan
G1 - my opponent has an early thalia, followed by a jitte. I have maze helping buy me time, but then he gets too many creatures and my PF engine comes online late by having to blow a turn handling a mother runes. I do have my defenses setup a maze and factory, as long as atleast 1 was able to save my life total I would of been golden, but that was met with flickerwship and a wasteland and i died to 10 power attack me without a way to stop it.
Boarding is the same as round 1
G2 - Early batterskull helps get him over 20, which is always a problem. Between PF and marit lage blocking I eventually get his board down to 1 creature. But in 2nd main he plays a karakas and exiled PF via faerie macrabe, and I never saw wasteland this game so I couldnt recreate lage.
Round 5: UW Blade (with some spice, i had to read a few cards) - Jeff
G1 - just make a super quick marit lage after he never gets white mana after i waste a t1 tundra.
Boarding was same as round 2 miracles. except +1 grudge -1 barbarian ring
G2 - The green enchantment game. Exploration, Sylvan Library & Choke all made it on the field. His turn 2 was spent using 2 tundra to cast a WW creature that exiled an enchantment (exploration), i then follow that up with a choke. After a few turns I found combo pieces but no ports to take him off white mana, so I figured i'd risk getting 20 life. Which happend, but then i was able to dig deeper with library, find 2 ports and make a safe 2nd marit lage and win.
Choke, ports and library are amazing. Pyroblast to counter a force was extremely satisfying, using surgical to save my loams from surgical was something. but again, i need dnt help I rarely feel in control of that matchup
Hi DJXstream, A postboard remark; I wouldn’t board out the moxen. Besides acceleration, they are also crucial in your total amount of R/G sources, and D&T already attacks us on that axis.
Also, I wouldn’t board out the gambles, but 2 loams instead. The gambles are guaranteed loams, and you have Trackers compensating for loam as well. Gamble gets you Pfire, but as the matchup is such an answer on answer-game, it’s also a great card to try find these (like a K-Grip, Vortex, Kozilek’s Return, …)
Some D&T players board out (some of) their plows postboard, so if you have a fast token game 2, it might be a good call too.
Yeah I'm with JDK. When you rely on mox in that matchup, you fall hard.
Regarding gamble. Which opener would you want more? Krosan Grip, Loam, 5 Lands VS Krosan Grip, Gamble, 5 Lands
Gambling away your 1 reactive spell is not something you want to be doing post board. Atleast thats my mindset, but as mentioned. this matchup has been difficult, so maybe i need to try something different.
The next monthly is 12/15. I may switch a Tracker for a Kozlek's Return
Hello,
I would not bring all the Trackers in. Trackers are too slow aggainst an aggro-manadenial deck like D&T in my opinion, and most of the times they get sworded anyways. Additionally there are only a few bad cards in our maindeck for this matchup, so you have almost no slots to board. I would board:
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Tireless Tracker
-1 Red Elemental Blast
-1 Glacial Chasm
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Mishras Factory
-1 Ghost Quarter
Straight forward. Just go for the loam engine, they can rarely beat an exploration + loam. Gamble for thicket and never cycle it, if you fear Surgical or Faerie Macabre.
I would. The idea of bringing them in in this match is that:
a) Their Swords are used on a less valuable target
b) You can blunt their attack
c) You have a draw engine after you lose access to your grave
C is the one that is most important. You are often looking for a grip and will fall behind if you can only draw one card a turn.
I'd follow your logic if you board in additional lands or something. But cutting manasources (moxen) to avoid getting manascrewed makes no sense to me. Also, if you can't kill a Revoker (Punishing Fire, Vortex, KGrip), you're in a bad shape against D&T's other weenies as well and you might have lost regardless.
I've never had a Flickerwisp on a mox before, and although it might be a solid play in very specific situations, I don't think it's a good play most of the time. Usually you can discard a land (and loam back later) but the flicker-effect is gone, where it might have been a hedge against Marit Lage otherwise for example.
Ive been beaten more than once by D&T's manadenial plan, so I don't think loam and exploration simply negates that. If he curves T1 mom into T2 Thalia, casting a double Pfire to start dealing with them costs 7 mana for example (including 1 recursion). Also keep in mind that Lands is tight on that first initial green source, and cutting two of these initial G's against a manadenial strategy seems risky (you need loam, exploration and a green mana).
Id mull both of those openers :). There's no gameplan in both of them so it's hard to compare. But I do see your point and yes, I'd prefer loam here too.
But (EDIT) 1) The opening hand is not only about loam but Pfire as well. Gamble can be both.
2) Don't hold back casting gamble to start playing your game, because you hold a reactive card. Worst case scenario (1/6) is that you discard KGrip, which is only really bad if he has or quickly draws into a KGrippable thing. Likewise, you wouldn't stop dredging out of fear of milling Kgrip either. As long as there's no lockpiece on the table that requires reaction, I think we should play as proactive as possible.
ANd 3), take the mid and late game in account as well, where drawing into additional loams or under RIP is useless. Gamble on the other hand, probably finds you the missing piece in the answer-into-answer-game.
Last edited by Rivfader; 11-21-2018 at 06:42 AM.
In his two parts article about the likeness we return to a particular plan, Maro ranked Zendikar (pre eldrazi version with strong land theme) as a 2 over 10, i.e. very likely.
It is the only 2, falling behind only three's 1 : Ravnica, Dominiria and Innistrad.
So be patient and hope for the better.
Hello guys i want to share with you my current list of RG Lands that is giving me good results in my local meta.
Spells 25
4 Mox Diamond
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
3 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
1 Manabond
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Life from the Loam
Lands 35
4 Wasteland
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Riftstone Portal
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Mishra's Factory
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Buried Ruin
2 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
2 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
Sideboard 15
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Choke
3 Krosan Grip
1 Engineered Explosives
Why Buried ruins instead of Academy Ruins? 1) i don't want the 3th colour; 2) the artifact picked by Buried came in hand and not on the top of the library (sometimes i prefer aggresive dredge instead of normaly draw.
EE Main Deck give a multiple solution from some problem in Game 1 like chalice (1), mass removal for creature with Tabernacle and for permanent like BtB or Blood Moon.
Urborg it's in because i want to improve the combo on turn 3 or i want the 3/4th mana coulored for EE or to produce mana with lands like tabernacle, maze etc.
Only 2 ports just for my local meta, maybe 3 for a big tournment it's the perfect number (maybe cutting a GQ).
No Glacial chasm because i don't see lot of burn or UR Delver and I saw that there are more wasteland.
For the Sideboard maybe the only 2 flexible slot are the Surgical, maybe replaced by 1 chalice/thorn of amethyst and/or Nissa, Vital Force.
my FNM meta was:
23/11/2018
2 ANT
2 Goblin
2 UB Reanimator
1 big eldrazi
1 BUG control
1 burning show
1 chain elves
1 dread shadow
1 eldrazi aggro
1 elves
1 grixis control
1 infect
1 lands (me)
1 merfolk
1 pod
1 tin fins
1 turbo depth
1 UB shadow
16/11/2018
2 BR reanimator
2 Dredge
2 Infect
2 sneak & show
1 aggro loam
1 big eldrazi
1 BUG control
1 dread shadow
1 D&T
1 food chain
1 Goblin
1 lands (me)
1 merfolk
1 Nic shift
1 Red Stompy
1 TES
1 Tin Fins
1 UB reanimator
1 Ub Shadow
If you have some advice let me know!
Bye
i know this R/G Lands but i'm wanting to try the older UGb lists again and someone (nola_gold?) did well with this:
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20531&d=334965&f=LE
Has anyone tried faithless looting over gamble? Seems strong with Loam and fires negating the discard aspect.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Academy Ruins has some advantages over buried Ruins, it's 3 mana cheaper (you need to count loam's casting cost as well with buried RUins), and it's independant from loam (fe. when loam is extracted). Academy Ruins can be a hardlock until your opp runs out of cards :)
I don't think the black splash offers that much for the main, basically entomb over gamble and adding raven's crime. Is Raven's Crime worth it? It's too slow against combo, so maybe versus grindy matchups like Miracles? I do like the experiment of dropping Pfire in a DRS-less meta.
The more nonland cards, the more appeal for looting over gamble, like Jund Depths. But in classic RG Lands you'd probably just draw into lands and not spells, so why not gamble for loam and dredge those lands? I think if you experiment and add more spells in the maindeck, the more appeal for looting though, like the Burning Wish version maybe? Gamble + Wish could be awkward there.
I found the video with this deck (watching without sound).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuYrm5sjxyw
I have to say that he played the deck very well* (and also had some luck), but it has nothing to do with the black splash. He would have won these matches with a RUG or RG version too.
As far as I have seen, there was almost newer a black card responsible for the win. On the other hand, there wasn't really a need for a red card (Gamble or PF) in these matches.
There are some upsides:
With Entomb, you know which card will be in the grave (no randomness). You can grab Loam without a risk, or a land, if Loam is already present or an artifact, of AR is present. You may play Entomb as an Instant.
Raven's Crime is just re-playable with any land in the hand. PF needs a Grove.
You have 6 free slots, if you get rid of the PF Grove combo. (In his case, he replaced them with Ensnaring Bridge, Raven's Crime, Worm Harvest, Urborg ToY, Cabal Pit, Creeping Tar Pit) -> More utility-lands.
The downsides:
Entomb doesn't get you Enchantments, Sorceries or Instants (well you can, but...). Other cards take a turn longer to use compared with a (won) Gamble.
Intuition is not usable on the first turn (too much mana).
No Grove->at least 3 less green mana. (wasn't a problem in his matches)
No PF->Less possibilities for Creature or PW destroy (you need an EE, maybe an Ensnaring Bridge or Cabal Pit).
The IDKs:
I don't know if Raven's Crime (or the Worm Harvest) is useful enough. Maybe you get him discard a card so he cannot combo off, but I think maybe, if you go to BUG, you should/could use other cards (even if they are unusable in the grave).
Intuition can grab everything, but the manacost is high. If you play on mana denial (like he did) this could work.
Ensnaring Bridge could help to gain time (but a little bit bad for our Token).
Somehow I like the idea of cutting PF after DRS is no more. But I don't know if I wanna cut Gamble.
If it has to be black, things come to my mind like Leovold or Chains of Mephistopheles, Abrupt Decay or Pernicious Deed.
Or go more to a 4c-loam build with more creatures like Scavenging Ooze...
*: I think he made some good decisions like not always go to the combo as quickly as possible, loam only if you have something on the board, croprotate into a Wasteland. Lot of mana denial. The BUG version and his playstyle match.
I am testing Faithless Looting over Gamble with main board Libraries. The ability to actually find explorations after the first couple turns has been a blessing. with Loam and 4 Punishing fires, faithless usually just reads "draw 2 cards" while also helping filter through cards and find sideboard action in games 2 and 3.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I am trying this BUG build but with Chains and Voids. I think we are not in a PFire meta right now
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Pox -- Miracles -- Lands -- Candelabra Enchantress -- Dragon Stompy -- Eldrazi Stompy -- Sultai Control
PFire is not that good against DnT.
I used to love the card when DRS were everywhere but now I feel EE has more potential (goyfs, TNN, death shadow, DnT creatures...)
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Pox -- Miracles -- Lands -- Candelabra Enchantress -- Dragon Stompy -- Eldrazi Stompy -- Sultai Control
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