Another idea is a grudge/rayofrev in the place of a grip (plays well with gamble/dredge)
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Use to run a one of Grudge. Personally found Split second to be worth the risk.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
Originally Posted by Spam
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
I've been watching your videos for some time:
Don't play your t1 mox into a daze.
You aren't dead to waste as long as you have stage up.
You can copy a copied chasm with a second stage so no reason wasting land drops replaying chasm.
Game 1 if you have a mox lead with port, still leaves up fire. Also I wouldn't pitch the second port to mox, keeping opponent off 3 slows tnn which is one of the few ways to break out of maze/pfire. Tnn forces you to go into the chasm loop sooner than you might be ready for.
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What do you think about Koth? It is better than Seismic Assault/Molten Vortex post sideboard? Is it necessary to give a slot to those cards??
Imo if you are looking for a hedge for blood moon I think molten Vortex is the best choice in that it is useful vs. Nonmoon matches and is easiest to cast of the three when the moon is not in effect. Almost like a 5th punishing fire in the matches where that effect is good. Koth on the other hand might be good vs. Miracles but I haven't tested the card at all.
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Im still looking for ´alternative´ win conditions!?!
Primeval Titan is good, but I feel I (we) need at least 2-3 alternatives? Blightsteel Colossus would be great (the shuffle effect really synergies with this deck), but a cc 12 is to much I think?
- What about Scuttling Doom Engine ? Colourless casting cost, he is Abrupt Decay proof, can't be blocked by all the small legacy staples creatures, hit for 6, dont pay upkeep to tabernacle hit for 6 more?
- Karn Liberated also has colourless casting cost, he is Abrupt Decay proof and is really good!
- Or maybe the good old Thrun, the Last Troll aka the Jace-Killer?
- I so wish Creeping Tar Pit was RG! I feel Raging Ravine might be worth a try? The counters put on Raging Ravine remain on it even after it stops being a creature. They'll have no effect until it becomes a creature again. Exchange the 3rd Depths with this?
- Treetop Village ?
The problem with creatures is that they dont synergy when we maze opponents creature, they will then have a blocker...
Regards
I do not think that this deck can support high mana cost spells...we produce a lot of colourless mana and lots of lands provide no mana (see Tabernacle of Mazes for example), that is what I think about your analysis:
- Colossus really costs too much, it is not so common to have 12 mana to cast it and the "shuffle" effect is not so great, we do not lose to mill for example (like vs grindstone, but always we play with graveyard to continue Loam loop as our goal...so I do not thinkthat blightsteel could be a viable option
- Scuttling Doom Engine is a good idea, but i think that titan is just more good in comparison to mana cost, he tutors combo pieces or utility lands, better than a 6/6 with no istant effects
- Karn is good, but, a part for mana cost, It has no interaction with the deck, just a really strong PW viable only in MUD's lists (and not in all lists in my opinion)...and it is the same for Thrun, just a good modern card in old Pod's deck
_ Manlands ar really good, but we have a combo, and really do not want to have a land that enter tapped in first turn and really do not think that i will tutor for it using a crop rotation
I think to give to Koth a chance this weekend at a tournament and post the results of this test...hope that he will have some good impact in the deck
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Primeval Titan
are really the only ones that work well with the deck. when i ran them never got a chance to use them properly.
Hi Meso94.
Thanks for your feedback/analysis. I agree on most of your points, I feel this deck looses cards to Manabond, I feel it could be replaced with something else. But that also counts to Loam (with is an awesome card in this deck). Riftstone Portal has done wonders for me, as u mention the ´non-mana´lands keeps us from getting mana. Im thinking of trying 1 urborg and maby 1 hexmage MB? Ive tried Koth on Cocatrice, either i lose him to dredge and when I finally get him, his 1x 4/4 doesn't do much... Titan is some times hard to cast. I really think we need a good G og GR man land! Ill say it again, a green C-Tarpit would be perfect!
Regards
loses*
Adding just 1 Urborg and 1 hexmage just gives more dead draws. You can't get hexmage back if you dredge it. It each becomes sort of half of a stage. That double black in hexmage means you almost never will cast it without Urborg also. To make hexmage and urborg useful you'll need multiple hexmages and then that steers the deck towards a more black heavy list which then focuses more on discard and hand disruption than the combo.
Double black is indeed too hard to have.
But after DDT being banned, I've been tempted in testing Thoughtseize along with Sphere as combohate. Already had the chance of testing it once in a 37-people event, and it was very good (went 4-2 in a hostile environment of RW-RIP-bloodmoon-hatedeck(0-2), RWPainter (2-1), Miracles (2-0), ANT (0-2), ANT (2-1), RIP-Enchantress (2-1). The only downside is having black mana in the opener, but I tweaked the manabase a bit and never was colorscrewed.
Has anyone else tested Thoughtseize, or thoughts about the card?
While its not exactly thoughtseize, I thought about Cabal therapy in the side with some number of dryad arbor for the flashback. It doesn't hurt as much to dredge as thoughtseize and I'd imagine that if you are bringing in discard to combat combo, you probably already know which cards to name with therapy. Not that I expect this to happen very often, but the dryad arbor could also keep you from getting killed by telemin performance out of the stoneblade sideboard (Happened to me once last weekend at the 40 duals tournament in coopersburg). Could also chump for days against tarmogoyf if you have loam going. Let us know if you continue to have good results with thoughtseize!
Vine Centaur 3G
Trample
Vine Centaur enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter for each land in all graveyards.
Whenever a land is put into a graveyard from anywhere you may pay GG. If you do, return Vine Centaur from the graveyard to your hand.
1/1
From. Seems really cool. Is this the alternative wincon we were looking for?
That is very interesting. I am going to pick up a pair and test them. I think its the best thing that has come along for us in a good little while.
Edit:
Unless someone can shoot a hole in my excitement, I like that this could offer a faster clock in control matches.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Instead I don't think that this card is as good as we can see, for this reason:
1) it depends on graveyard, we need and alternative win condition that do not play with grave and help us to fight for victory, also post sideboard
2) The third ability return the card to hand, witch means that we need like 6 mana (3 G specific) to return and play the same turn and it can be a sample 1/1 against opponent grave-hate
3) The only thing that I like is the Trample effect that gives him a lot of changes to overcome the fragile blockers of opponents...specifically if this becomes really huge in power...
Definitely a good card, but I do not think that is worth a slot in out deck, but feel free to contrast with my opinion
I agree that the perfect alternative wincon should be graveyard independent. But it should be graveyard recurrable as well, and it's unlikely that such a dream card will ever exist. I see this card as an alternative wincon to Dark Depths itself, for example to be played in conjunction with DD when DD isn't available due to a Pithing Needle or something like that. Consider other alternative wincons for a comparison: Seismic Assault and Molten Vortex seemingly don't do that much without an active Loam, while Primeval Titan costs 6 and is lost forever once it gets dredged. The utility of Vine Centaur seems somewhere in between.
Edit: the closest comparison is probably Worm Harvest. The centaur can be removed by StP, but has slightly easier mana requirements
I was thinking put one in the main in place of a Manabond. Just down to one Bond and add one of these. It helps in the matches that you lose because your just too fucking slow to kill.
Just had a thought. Do not play him online... All those triggers...
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
oh i dig this. will 100% try it out. even mainboard.
Vine Centaur 3G
Trample
Vine Centaur enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter for each land in all graveyards.
Whenever a land is put into a graveyard from anywhere you may pay GG. If you do, return Vine Centaur from the graveyard to your hand.
1/1
From. Seems really cool. Is this the alternative wincon we were looking for?
Cool card. Goblin Rabblemaster is 3 mana and fits the bill of not needing to use the graveyard. It's also a fast clock if left unchecked.
♀
+1
Had in my SB for a while, definately fits the bill.
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RGCL (GQ)
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