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Thread: [Primer] R/G Lands

  1. #121
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    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    Still searching, but my Japanese is a bit rusty ... But unfortunately no... I can't find anything
    I did a bit of searching but didn't come up with any discussion, just decklists.
    I suspect the thinking is that they either waste Swords to Plowshares on it (WIN: less removal for Marit Lage), it draws a counter (WIN: fewer counters for Crop Rotation or Gamble), forces the opponent to keep blockers back (WIN: less pressure against), or goes unanswered on the beatdown (WIN: WIN).

    If going the creature beatdown route post-board, I'd still prefer Thrun as it's powerful on both attack and defense, much less vulnerable, and probably comes in in more matchups.
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  2. #122

    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockosensei View Post
    I did a bit of searching but didn't come up with any discussion, just decklists.
    I suspect the thinking is that they either waste Swords to Plowshares on it (WIN: less removal for Marit Lage), it draws a counter (WIN: fewer counters for Crop Rotation or Gamble), forces the opponent to keep blockers back (WIN: less pressure against), or goes unanswered on the beatdown (WIN: WIN).

    If going the creature beatdown route post-board, I'd still prefer Thrun as it's powerful on both attack and defense, much less vulnerable, and probably comes in in more matchups.
    It certainly does seem to have it's merits, and perhaps after this weekend I'll pick some up online and try it out. Anything that can help with combo, miracles, or d&t is something I'm always looking for. I've even debated a sideboard Boseiju, Who Shelters All, specifically for miracles to break through the counterbalance lock.

  3. #123
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    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    I would say that Goblin Rabblemaster is easier to cast and has a broader application than Seismic Assault, due being easier to cast.

    I do have Rabblemaster laying around, and I have a day of testing with friends ahead of me. I'll give him a try.
    Last edited by Chatto; 03-14-2015 at 07:38 AM.
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  4. #124
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    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    People seen this list played in Japan? Interesting to see:

    - no Blue, yet still EE,
    - four Goblin Rabblemaster in the SB.
    This doesn't suprise me. EE when you draw it is often a life saver, but the recursion loop has only happened once for me in 8 matches. Intuition really holds that combo together being able to grab Loam, Academy and EE. When you don't have that you end up with just disjointed pieces that on their own have a diminishing impact on the game.

    I was planing to cut the Academy for another EE and run two, just because they are so useful in hand. That list, I think it's smart.
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  5. #125
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    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    @ Dice_Box: what is your opinion on Rabblemaster as a SB-card?
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  6. #126
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    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Just noticed that list has 4 Depths main and 2 Tabernacle. Add in the EE main and I am starting to feel it's a very heavily meta driven build. The sideboard drives that point home to me. Volcanic Fallout, Goblin Rabblemaster, I get the impression this was built with some knowledge of what the player was likely to face.

    Goblin Rabblemaster I think is ok against control, when they have removed their Creature control to bring in things like Grave hate, he would shine. You can drop him faster than a Titan but I do not think he has the same impact. His horizontal growth mixed with his speed would give him quite the reach against some decks like Miracles though and you could attack with him when you have an open Maze without fear.

    That sideboard offers answers to Combo and Control but it lacks some of my go to's like Karakas and Bog. I do not think that's too much of a take away though since that set up giving options against both the major weakness of the deck seams strong. I just feel like you need Karakas somewhere in your 75. Hell I would go to 76 before I would cut it.

    My personal feeling on the card? I can see the appeal but I am not sure I would run it. I can see it as an answer to a meta though. I guess that's a point in its favor.

    I get the feeling I have overlooked something though, anyone want to jump in?
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  7. #127
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    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Perhaps this would help to explain some choices: http://www.mtgdecks.net/events/view/18716
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  8. #128

    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    With all this talk of alternative wincons in the board, I wanted to bring up a card I've never seen mentioned: Inferno Titan. Obviously not as good as Seismic Assault against Moon decks, but it has the benefit of not being graveyard dependent and is, in my opinion, less of a corner case care. You could board it in against anything except combo and it would be pretty decent; it could act as a sweeper against Death and Taxes, it could threaten Jace pretty well against Miracles or Blue midrange, and would just act as a huge bomb against a lot of decks. Obviously it doesn't get a spot over Primeval Titan, but it might get a spot over Assault.

  9. #129
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    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Two turn clock is always worth exploring. Only problem I have is, like Primetime, it's a bit expensive.
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  10. #130

    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Greetings, yesterday, 3/14/2015, I played in Tales of Adventure in Coopersburg, PA. for more information: http://eemagic.com/
    I ended up getting 13th Place which to date is the highest I’ve gotten in any 300+ player tournament. Let me preface this by letting you all know that my plays were affected by a lack of sleep. My roommates woke me up and it threw off my sleep pattern so after getting down work at 11pm I couldn’t sleep at all and before I knew it, it was 7am and time to get ready to go.

    Anyway, onto the reason you’re here to find out what happened and how a sleep deprive man did. I can honestly say I had really good matchups and lucky draws helped a lot. The TO decided to do a cut to Top 16, but even had they cut to a top 8 I would have been ok as going in I was ranked 7th.
    Match one I played twelve post MUD
    Game one all I saw were glimmerpost and cloudpost which I wastelanded, recurring it and assembled the combo thanks to a Manabond for a turn four win.
    Game two was similar except I didn’t get or need the combo as wasteland locking him was all I needed to get him to scoop.
    I don’t recall what I sided in but I know I brought in all of my K-grips at least. Unfortunately my sideboarding skills still need work and I should start writing down what I sideboard from now on.
    1-0

    Match 2 I played UG Infect
    Game one I only took 2 infect counters before wastelocking him out and wiping his board.
    Game two was much scarier and I had 9 infect counters before the end. It started out pretty standard with a blighted agent from him and me forcing him to use his pump spells on my turn to save his creatures from punishing fire while I dug for my combo pieces and a way to end the game. The punishing fire became a wasteland as he played a Sylvan Safekeeper and soon found himself with no lands, unable to finish me off because of Glacial Chasm. His only out was to naturally draw a wasteland. Luckily he didn’t and after I cleared his board he scooped. He ended up making it to top 16 also.
    2-0

    Match 3 I played UWR Standstill
    Game one took far too long and I blame myself for that because I hadn’t played it before and need to work on my punishing fire math. My opponent did what he does, draw go and counter anything he could, which included several Loams countered via Spell Snare. Eventually he landed a Keranos which I can’t deal with pre or post board and realized too late that Punishing fire was my only chance at winning the game since I couldn’t seem to resolve a loam to get back my pieces of the combo and I was using too much mana trying to keep him off of an entreat which never came because he doesn’t run it and I had no clue what to expect. Keranos ended up killing me with him at only 5 life. Had I started punishing fire a few turns earlier I would have won.
    Game 2 We only had about 10 minutes left and I went aggressively for the combo which he swords two marit lage’s back to back leaving him at 15 life and me at 44.
    Again I’m not sure what I brought in or took out besides the 4th depths but I’m sure I brought in a couple k-grips as well for any grave hate. This guy ended up being the #1 seed going into the top 16.
    2-1

    Match 4 I played against Miracles
    Game one he set up a counter lock followed by a jace. I tried a few tricks to make him mess up his counterbalance triggers but he didn’t so I just scooped to save time and I ended up needing every second of it.
    Game 2 I created a marit lage making him have it early but because he played around wasteland, which I didn’t even have, he didn’t have the white to swords and I took that one.
    Game 3 was a grindfest and this time I was able to keep him off a lot of lands and gripped his only top and he never saw a counterbalance that stayed on the table for longer than a turn thanks to grip. Eventually though I realized I wasn’t going to get my missing combo piece and started to punishing fire him out of the game for a win on turn 5 of extra turns.
    3-1

    Match 5 I played against Maverick
    Game one he was able to get me down to 11 but with only two or three creatures which I was able to punishing fire out of the way and assemble the combo.
    Game two I kept a hand that was only missing the punishing fire combo but was promising. My opponent played a turn one mom and I drew a punishing fire so using a mox and a land I removed the mom and passed. My opponent then plays a Deathrite and I then draw a grove. I drew exactly what I needed when I needed it. The punishing fire recursion was all I needed to keep his board cleared of any threat my opponent could play.
    Match 6 I played against Dredge
    Game one I was able to crop rotate into a bog at the opportune time and then create a token in the next few turns, since he had not yard and not hand I had plenty of time.
    Game two it was a similar plan except this time I just recurred bog every turn and he wasn’t able to get there and scooped.
    4-1

    Match 7 I played another Dredge deck
    Game one I won the die roll and kept an amazing hand with a mox, a stage, a crop rotation and a loam along with some other lands that weren’t glacial chasm or bog. I got greedy and aggressively went for the combo and then found out I’m dealing with dredge again and used my crop rotation. I wasn’t able to see it or a bog to stop my opponent from getting a massive zombie army and he had a narcomoeba to block the token I made with no punishing fire in sight to remove it.
    Game two I was able to Bojuka bog him and recur it to win.
    Game three was a bit more stressful, for me. I had a strong hand but without a crop rotation or a bog or glacial chasm. Eventually I had him down to zero lands but he didn’t seem to mind as 28+ zombie tokens are a formidable force. I got lucky, top decked a tabernacle and that bought me the time I needed to assemble the combo and wipe his yard to win the game.
    5-1

    Match 8 I played the dreaded mirror match, win this and I can ID the next and relax
    Game one I had a good opening 7 but the next turn when I dredged I dredge 3 loams back to back and they got promptly bogged away. I scooped soon after to inevitability.
    Game two was a grindfest with each of us going back and forth with him bogging more than half of my deck and I had only seen one wasteland my ghost quarter and two loams. Eventually time was called and I only had 5 turns to win for the tie. My opponent was at a very healthy 25 life thanks to my only colored source being groves for a long time. Thankfully I had a maze and a karakas to deal with my opponent’s combo if he tried that. He hadn’t seen his karakas thankfully and I created a token but he had triple glacial chasm and two mazes of his own established by the time he passed to me for turn five, he was at an unhealthy 17 at this point thanks to glacial chasm. I tapped down one maze at the end of his turn, turned my one stage into a copy of my wasteland. So on my turn I could tap down his remaining maze, and wasteland two of his three chasms, but that still left one chasm to deal with and only 1 more wasteland in my deck. I had no loams left, because he bogged me on his previous turn and took away my dredge option so I drew, and got my last crop rotation and I was able to crop rotate for the last wasteland and swing for the win.
    5-1-1

    Match 9 I played what I thought was a junk lands deck but it was just a Junk Loam list
    Game one he triple moxed loamed and played a wasteland. I was shortly locked out of the game.
    Game two I created the combo turn 2 for a turn 3 win.
    Game three was a bit grindier and he didn’t allow me to get the combo on line so I had to punishing fire him down to six then drop a seismic assault and pitch the 3 lands in my hand for the game. I’ve won my win and in. I was extremely excited, but exhausted and just wanted sleep.
    6-1-1

    Cut to top 16
    Match one I played UWR Stoneblade
    Game one he created a batterskull off of a stoneforge and when I found a maze he had a counter for the loam and he won.
    Game two I was able to assemble the combo and taught my opponent that naming Thespian Stage when my stage is currently a Tiaga is a bad play.
    Game three is where all of the lack of sleep finally hit, and hit me hard. I was apparently falling asleep at the table according to my buddy who was watching me. I made a token early which he swords and put me at a healthy 29 for he had a Meddling Mage on Punishing fire, a stoneforge and a batterskull and all I had to help was one maze of ith and had to remove a Rest in Peace before I could use the loam in my hand to dig for another answer. A tabernacle was helping to keep his mana tied up but only after he played a stoneforge and fetched out a sword of fire and ice. Here is where I began dozing off and losing focus. He attached the sword to a stoneforge and began attacking. I had the combo together and should have just made it, made him give me life or lose the game instead I kept mazing his batterskull when I should have been mazing the stoneforge with the swords on it to stop him from drawing extra cards and I should have made a token. Worst case he swords it and buys me a few more turns to find an answer.

    That’s not how it went and I ended up losing but it was a learning experience for both of us as this game I taught my opponent that you can’t wasteland a stage that is now a basic land.


    All in all it was a great day and I had a lot of fun and learned a lot about the deck and am happy with my card choices for both the main and sideboard. I’m also very happy I didn’t see any Reanimator or show and tell variants. Had I known that or even suspected that I would have not run the Primeval Titan but at a large event like that I’d not take that risk.
    Well I hope that’s useful even without the sideboarding information any questions ask away and if you were there watching and know I may have the board or lines of play wrong let me know. It’s all from memory and that’s pretty unreliable at the best of times.

    The list:
    Lands (34)
    2 Taiga
    1 Windswept Heath
    1 Wooded Foothills
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    3 Dark Depths
    4 Thespian's Stage
    1 Bojuka Bog
    3 Maze of Ith
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    2 Tranquil Thicket
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Glacial Chasm

    Instant (8)
    4 Crop Rotation
    4 Punishing Fire

    Sorcery (8)
    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Gamble

    Artifact (4)
    4 Mox Diamond

    Enchantment(6)
    2 Manabond
    4 Exploration

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Karakas
    1 Pithing Needle
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Krosan Grip
    1 Choke
    1 Seismic Assault
    1 Dark Depths
    1 Chalice of the Void
    1 Primeval Titan

  11. #131
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    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolai004 View Post
    Game two I created the combo turn 2 for a turn 3 win.
    Not quite turn three, and you left out the best part. Double Leyline meets double Krosan Grip.

    Grats on the finish!

  12. #132

    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolai004 View Post
    Greetings, yesterday, 3/14/2015, I played in Tales of Adventure in Coopersburg, PA. for more information: http://eemagic.com/
    I ended up getting 13th Place which to date is the highest I’ve gotten in any 300+ player tournament.
    Congrats Nikolai! Sleep seems overrated, as it didn't stop you from a killing spree :)
    What were your experiences with Seismic Assault?

  13. #133

    [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Also played at Eternal Extravaganza 2. Went 7-2 landing in 17th place, missed top 16 on super slim breakers. Unfortunately I did not take great notes since my games went kind of long and it wore me down.

    My matches went as follows:
    2-0 BUG Nicfit
    2-1 Merfolk
    2-0 Grixis Pyromancer
    1-2 Miracles - technically we drew but I conceded since he had me locked up game 3
    0-2 UWR Delver
    2-0 Burn
    2-1 Shardless BUG
    2-1 Elves
    2-0 UWR Stoneblade

    Scored a minty German taiga which I plopped right into the deck. Slightly disappointed on getting bumped out of top 16, but the great prize and showing makes up for it.

  14. #134

    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivfader View Post
    Congrats Nikolai! Sleep seems overrated, as it didn't stop you from a killing spree :)
    What were your experiences with Seismic Assault?
    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    Not quite turn three, and you left out the best part. Double Leyline meets double Krosan Grip.

    Grats on the finish!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hrothgar View Post
    Great Nikolai.
    Very useful report!

    I play your identical 60 main cards.
    My only doubt is about the absence of Horizon Canopy...but i prefere the Ghost Quarter to realize my denial plan vs the decks who insert one copy of basics lands..

    Did you have a good time with this setup or you want to add the Canopy at your 60?
    Thanks everyone for the responses, I realized when I woke up this morning that that MUD was actually UR burn and I was remembering the wrong match from when I couldn't sleep and got some games in on MODO.

    Seismic Assault has been amazing even in non-blood moon matchups. I recall remarking to my friend as we were leaving that I won't be taking it out anytime soon. Whenever we go to events I use it and it's just great and can often times just win. My only problem is I wish there was a way to get it back if we mill it.

    I took horizon Canopy out for the verdant catacombs mainly because I looked at the lists of the people who did well at events and they seem to make due with only 3 fetchable lands and 3 fetchlands. I believe I posted a decklist a few posts back of what I was planning on running. I dropped the 3rd tiaga and a horizon canopy for a verdant catacomb and the 4th crop rotation. I can't say for sure if it was the right change for either of them but I do like the 4th crop rotation but am on the fence about the catacomb instead of the 3rd tiaga.

    JamJelly, you're correct, now that you mention it I do recall the double leyline pregame and me dealing with both but not needing to. They were fun matches and I rather enjoyed that last game.

  15. #135

    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrothgar View Post
    Great Nikolai.
    Very useful report!

    I play your identical 60 main cards.
    My only doubt is about the absence of Horizon Canopy...but i prefere the Ghost Quarter to realize my denial plan vs the decks who insert one copy of basics lands..

    Did you have a good time with this setup or you want to add the Canopy at your 60?
    I just saw that I missed your ghost quarter comment altogether. I can't see not running it, it is often times at worst a 5th watsteland that gives them a basic and at best a strip mine. It was especially useful against my mirror match where my opponent copied a forest and the only way to remove the stage was with the ghost quarter. Even decks with 2-3 basic lands will run out quickly when you recur it. The only decks that have too many for it to be effective are decks like miracles, who can often times lock you out of being able to recur it and mono red burn who has too many to remove one at a time before they just win.

  16. #136

    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    I had my share of lands-fun as well this weekend , playing the finals of a 66-person tourney.
    With some luck though, cause my quarterfinal burnopponent did beat me, but conceided because he and his carbuddies wanted to start the long drive home (and we already split prices).

    I played versus:
    2-1: OmniTell (with laboratory maniac)
    2-0: MUD
    2-0: Bloodmoon Stompy
    1-2: Burn
    2-0: Goblins
    2-0: Jund
    ID: Infect

    Top8:
    0-2: Burn (but conceided , thx to Alan!)
    2-1: Sneaky Show
    0-2: Tin Fins
    Seismic Assault won me a game versus omnitell (on the field through Show and Tell, burning the lab maniac with sphere backup), and versus the Bloodmoon Stompy (with lots of planeswalkers).

    EDIT: Arksz, congrats for 17th in a 300+ tourney!

  17. #137

    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrothgar View Post
    Seismic is a win con in some matchups but this....loool :D
    Very good man!
    It certainly was a game to remember.
    The sphere limited his plays, and after counting his mana, he probably assumed he'd pull his combo off. But after S&T'ing Omniscience and me putting Seismic Assault into play, he suddenly had two permanents to take care of. He played Enter the Infinite, to draw into all his answers, but he probably miscalculated the amount of mana he needed through sphere. So after bouncing Assault, he was short on a mana, and had to S&T a Solland into play to get an additional mana. As it dropped Assault on my board as well, it didn't solve his problem.
    But I do realize that if he played Emrakul instead of Labman, the result would probably have been different (although, how great would it be to burn an SnT'd Emrakul with Seismic Assault by discarting 8 lands :) .

  18. #138

    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Anyone thinking about Atarka's Command in the deck? Hard not to look at it with the "put a land card from your hand onto the battlefield" mode.

  19. #139
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    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by snurly View Post
    Anyone thinking about Atarka's Command in the deck? Hard not to look at it with the "put a land card from your hand onto the battlefield" mode.
    Nope.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  20. #140

    Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands

    Quote Originally Posted by snurly View Post
    Anyone thinking about Atarka's Command in the deck? Hard not to look at it with the "put a land card from your hand onto the battlefield" mode.
    The problem is that the other options of the card aren't good. If you're only looking at the 'put a land into play' part, you're better off with summer bloom (but this card isn't played either).

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