There are a few interesting cards for Legacy, and the rest of the set is useless (un)limited waste of paper. That is how it always is, and how it should be.
Except for the waste of cardboard, which is bad. I never understood why drafters can't just repack their cards in homemade boosters, and use them again.
Thats called cube, and its awesome! Why all the limited hate? Limited is like the best format ever! Im not gonna explain why draft/seald is tha best!Originally Posted by M+1
“Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
Limited magic is probably the most skill intensive format, which makes it a great competitive format. I am pretty sure we'll never have another pro tour that does not freature draft as half the tournament
There are all kinds of skills involved in Magic. Different formats exercise different sets. I have played limited formats of all stripes from Cube to Rochester. The skills that drafting calls for is just not as fun for me as the process of spark, research, test, tweak, test, tweak, perfection.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
The problem with Draft/Sealed is that it adds yet another random element to a game that is adrift in random elements as it is. Losing to a power card that is extraordinarily above the power level available in the average pack is just not fun.
I did really well in a couple of sealed KTK events because I had the skill and brilliant ability to pull a High Sentinels of Arashin in one event and a Sorin, Solemn Visitor in another. The ability to actually craft a superior list from a random set of cards is based largely on what you randomly pull.
In draft it basically comes down to how many playable creatures you get in 2 colors and whether you have any removal to go along with them. There's no skill involved in picking the correct curve of creatures if they're available to you. There's no skill involved in losing when you only get 10 playable creatures passed to you in the draft and no good removal. It's random.
Just like in Poker, there's no skill involved in what cards you get? You get what you get, it's all random. No way to win when other people's card are better than mine.
Just like in Legacy, there's no skill involved in the cards you draw? You just get what you get. Nothing you can do when you have to mull to five every game.
\s
Draft and Sealed are obviously very skill-intensive formats. You have to know what to draft, when to draft it, how to keep track of every card you look at it in every pack, how to determine what other people are drafting and whether or not you are better off switching colors, and a whole lot of other stuff. All of that on top of the fact that you have to play well to move forward. This is reflected in the fact that people who don't draft regularly never get to day two in a Grand Prix. It's a skill game. Is there some random stuff related to the game? Sure. Doesn't make it any less skill-oriented, overall.
If it was mostly skill you would have 2 or 3 players who were clearly leaps and bounds ahead of the field and who won almost every competition they were in except when they happened to run into each other.
Garry Kasparov is an example of what happens in a skill-based competition.
Even Draft is a 50/50 thing with random chance playing as much of a part as skill level.
That's not saying that bad players don't lose many more games than they should. Just that random chance is a huge part of the overall competition. Which is why the 2 or 3 best players in the world are absolutely capable of scrubbing out in day one of a two day competition now and then. They just didn't catch the breaks or a few people got wildly lucky against them.
“Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
Actually... that's not quite true. Indeed, Poker is a game where you can--theoretically--get a losing hand every game and still win. For example, if you can bluff your opponent into thinking you have a good enough hand, you can still win with a bad one. This is one area where Poker allows for more skill, because you aren't forced to go all in on every hand, whereas you basically have to do that with Magic.
Conversely, though, there's a lot more decisions and "moving parts" in a game of Magic than Poker.
This isn't an argument in regards to draft not being skillful. This is just a statement on the randomness of drawing in general. You don't really back up your claim that draft is so much more random than regular Magic.
Fact is, Draft is quite skill-intensive and there's surprisingly little luck involved because of all the decisions that have to be made in regards to what to pick, and how to incorporate everything from what you want to make, what it seems everyone else is making, and so on, to say nothing of the deckbuilding that follows. The fact you play against the same people as was in your drafting group makes additionally sure that randomness is not a real factor in deck construction, as you're picking from the same group of cards as they are.
Sealed is another matter, as you're far more at the mercy of what you open, and all your opponents have made their decks from different card pools than you rather than it all being shared. I do think people overstate the additional luck factor in Sealed--there really aren't many actual sealed pools you simply can't win with--but there is still the small chance you'll be the guy who gets stuck with the legitimately unplayable Sealed pool.
And in regards to the general claim about the luck factor, you're right that even the top players can sometimes just scrub out, but it really doesn't seem to happen with them that much; it's why you'll see the same names getting into the top places in tournaments with considerable frequency. Don't look at what are outliers and leap to the conclusion that they're "normal."
I think the "\s" means sarcasm.
So I drafted this set on cockatrice and it is really fun to draft! Its not even close to "5 turns land go, then dragons" its an aggro set! You almost always end up with a 2 colour deck with plenty of 2&3 drops all with power 2+ and a relevant ability! Dragons are surprisingly all bad and uncommon anyway, maybe you pick 1 or 2 as a finisher...
“Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
Mostly agree. Except I think cube is the most fun I have playing magic. The randomness, even though it may be frustrating at times, is what entertains me. I get a kick out of seeing someone pull something ridiculous and use it against me. I have never even drafted before because I like constructed play more. But modo cube is titz bruh. I went infi last cube event drafting multiple times a day until they took it down. Rating hit mid 1700s (from base 1600) just on cube. It returns on the 18th. Cant wait!
To clarify, I definitely agree with you. My post was mostly sarcastic, hence the '/s'.
Also, 100% agreed on Sealed being the most variable format, overall. Draft has infinitely more skill associated with it than Sealed does, as you have no control over the cards other people get in their pool. You still have to build a working deck from your pool, but it definitely takes away a huge portion of what makes Draft such a skillful format.
Hmm.
It looks like Exploit can be countered by removing the creature with the ability on the stack. I like that part of it a whole lot. But I thought they were dumbing. This seems to reward brains in a very old fashioned way.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I didn't even notice this at first, but now I like it a really lot.
The tournament I started is over. You should join the next one.
Are you saying that it can be effectively countered by killing the creature if it's the only one in play? Or are you saying that I can have like 8 Orcs in play, cast a thing with Exploit, stack the Exploit and kill the creature with Exploit, and watch the ability fizzle for some reason?
If it's the former, that's actually pretty much in-line with the way I'd have expected things to work since you can't sacrifice what you don't control. But if you're saying it works in the latter way, that's really really different from previous creatures and not very intuitive at all - kind of like the handful of cards that double-up on the "in play" wording like Stalking Yeti ("When -this- enters the battlefield, if it's on the battlefield, .....")
Minister of Pain enters the battlefield.
Minister of Pain's exploit trigger is put onto the stack.
iamajellydonut smacks Minister of Pain with a Lightning Bolt.
Minister of Pain is put into the graveyard and never sees its exploit trigger resolve and therefore will not have exploited a creature.
The tournament I started is over. You should join the next one.
Right.
If I am his opponent, the Exploit trigger went on the stack as you would expect. My minister catches a bolt and dies with this trigger waiting to resolve. I have not chosen which creature to sacrifice yet. I can still decide to sacrifice another creature if I like when the trigger resolves. I just will not get the Exploit benefit from it.
I think that this is because the text telling us the results of exploitation are not OTB at resolution.
So it's not backbreaking to interrupt the resolution, but it is a pro kind of play to have something like Swords to Plowshares act like a counterspell.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
This does not work. Mainly do to the fact that you can in response to something like swords to plowshares you just sac the minister to the exploit trigger. The exploit mechanic does not care if the creature is on the field upon resolution only if the exploit cost was payed. Now there maybe a circumstance where in with the trigger on the stack i just let you kill my exploit creature and then sac a creature to the exploit trigger for some reason but that escapes me at the moment on what that situation maybe.
So it's a bit like Madness* and it's "secretly" multiple effects - one "you may sacrifice a creature" trigger, and then an "if you sacrificed to the exploit, do a thing" effect?
* - because you can Stifle the first ability and prevent a Madness card from returning from exile with its "pay my Madness cost to cast me" effect on it, which is definitely an old trick but not at all intuitive unless you already knew how Madness precisely worked
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