[DTK] Dragons of Tarkir spoiler thread

[joven]

As for the mechanics:

Lots of derivative stuff here. Exploit feels like it's just an awkward way to word EtB effects so that other cards can care about it ("When a creature is exploited, do X"), but I don't see there being a ton of room for cards like that in two colors in this set - though there will likely be some at uncommon to act as draft build-arounds. Megamorph is a letdown, but I don't see where they could have taken regular morph that wouldn't have been confusing, wordy, gimmicky, or some combination of the above, and megamorph at least gets points for having a clean execution. Rebound coming back is interesting if for no other reason than the fact that the Jeskai/Ojutai are the only clan to not get a fresh keyword at some point in the block. They said they specifically avoided doing that for the Ravnica guilds in RtR because players would be mad if their guild got shafted with a returning instead of a new keyword, so I wonder what changed their math here. Rebound is still fine; one of my favorite draft decks of all time was a Grixis Control deck from Rise that made great use of rebound removal spells, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it here. Formidable is so whatever I had to look up the card to even remember what the mechanic is named, but in that respect it's a good follow-up to ferocious, so at least they're consistent.

- Exploit is indeed just a EtB with feeding the graveyard attached maybe enabling some stronger or unusual effects, at least has nice flavor
- Megamorph is maybe ok considering the "block complexity argument", but the name is just dumb, also I'm sad that they didn't do Spellmorph (what I predicted)
- Rebound is just good synergy with Prowess which isn't that easy to get (they couldn't use Flashback or Buyback)
- Formidable seems stupid, it's like Ferocious but twice as bad. In retrospect I actually liked Ferocious. Some of the spells with it were neat cards at least in Limited (Barrage of Boulders, Roar of Challenge, Stubborn Denial, Temur Battle Rage and of course Savage Punch), but assembling 8 total power is just soo conditional and "winmore" (you need multiple powerful creatures).

[tescrin]

I agree with Aggro_zombies.

5 mana for a mere Delver isn't that great. As for the CA, we already have enough cards in Legacy that cost 3 mana max to generate one-time card advantage. 5 mana just doesn't cut it.

I'm just thinking we already pay 5+ when using SFM for 1-time CA and her body is terrible to boot. I think it's relevant that it's a 2-mana counter to Delver as well. It's less that each of the examples are specifically great, and more that it's a pretty general counter to *a lot* of things in legacy. While it doesn't do all of these roles amazingly, it seems that it does them all competently. Anyway, I think I'll be trying it out. People said Tasigur was garbage when I was beating my chest about him, I think this guy could have a similar (that is, limited) impact on legacy.

[joven]

I'm actually fundamentally disappointed Megmorph wasn't

Ultramorph X - Cost (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn it face up any time for its ultramorph cost and put X +1/+1 counters on it.)

Still would have been stupid - but would have, at least, much more design space.

So every ultramorph is a hydra!? Strange flavor. And where is that design space? The difference between morphs usually comes from the body and the trigger when turned face-up.

[Cire]

So every ultramorph is a hydra!? Strange flavor. And where is that design space? The difference between morphs usually comes from the body and the trigger when turned face-up.

Not hydra. . . just variable numbers so instead of always getting +1/+1 one, it could say Ultramorph 3 - when you unmorph put 3 counters on this.

Edit: probably should have used the letter N to represent variable number than X

[joven]

Not hydra. . . just variable numbers so instead of always getting +1/+1 one, it could say Ultramorph 3 - when you unmorph put 3 counters on this.

Edit: probably should have used the letter N to represent variable number than X

Ah ok, I think WotC don't always get that it would make more sense to define the abilities in a more abstract manner, maybe because of kiddie complexity reasons. For example I would have wished for "Delve N" to limit the number of cards you can remove to reduce the cost. That would have made it possible to not ridiculously overcost every Delve card. More control and more flexibility for design. On the other hand they could attach the N in the future and keep the Delve without N standing for unlimited number of cards.

[Cire]

A lot of mechanics would have been improved with an N - ******** chief among them I think.

Edit - I don't know why the mechanic on werebear got blocked ??

[Barook]

I'm just thinking we already pay 5+ when using SFM for 1-time CA and her body is terrible to boot. I think it's relevant that it's a 2-mana counter to Delver as well. It's less that each of the examples are specifically great, and more that it's a pretty general counter to *a lot* of things in legacy. While it doesn't do all of these roles amazingly, it seems that it does them all competently. Anyway, I think I'll be trying it out. People said Tasigur was garbage when I was beating my chest about him, I think this guy could have a similar (that is, limited) impact on legacy.

Wrong - you pay to get CA with SFM. Everything else is just additional cost cheating while making it uncounterable.

I was in the Tasigur camp, too, since how can a 1-mana Goyf with text be bad?

But I rest my case: This card seems underwhelming for Legacy.

[Spam]

Funny, but I think you mean "HyperThreshold".

Yep, you're right. Sorry for my typo.

Exploit has potential, but the problem for its Legacy playability is that it most likely costs much more than the original spell, making it essentially unplayable in Legacy. I wouldn't say no a few nice GSZ targets.

That said, one thing that bothers me about the flavor: How can you exploit yourself?

On a different note:

I don't get the bitching about Megamorph.

It's clearly a story tie-in to Return to Zendikar, because after 10000 years, the Eldrazi broke free. And now Wizards tries to broaden their audience by recruiting teenagers with attitude.

How can you not love it when people scream "It's morphin time!" or "We need Megamorph power right now!" all the time in Draft?

Official DTK Theme

PS : This also confirms that Return to Zendikar is going to feature a variant of the level up mechanic since they can't pass up the chance for Standard to make people scream "Make my monster grow!".

So I wasn't the only one who thought about the Rangers!
At the moment I don't see anything that would actually be that good in Legacy, and these mechanics looks really like: "meh, stay in Standard".
Oh, well, maybe they are saving the "bombs" for later and I'm an idiot.
However, if this babe hits the ground, I'll play standard!

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Exploit seems great in all mikaeus, the unhallowed EDH decks.

[Meekrab]

- Formidable seems stupid, it's like Ferocious but twice as bad. In retrospect I actually liked Ferocious. Some of the spells with it were neat cards at least in Limited (Barrage of Boulders, Roar of Challenge, Stubborn Denial, Temur Battle Rage and of course Savage Punch), but assembling 8 total power is just soo conditional and "winmore" (you need multiple powerful creatures).

8 total power (on both sides of the board, even) happens basically every game in Limited and a lot of midrange vs. midrange games in Standard.

[wcm8]

Regarding Stratus Dancer: isn't the only way to 'counter' a Megamorph activation is by playing a card like Stifle, since morphing is what I assume to be a triggered effect?

Since very few combo decks run Stifle, then this card is pretty much like a Counterflux or Last Word against a critical Sorcery/Instant (e.g.: Show and Tell, Exhume, Natural Order, etc.) and it also leaves behind a Delver body to mop up their life total.

It's likely too slow for Legacy outside of fighting Miracles.dec, but I suppose it could be decent in a slightly slower format like Modern. In Legacy, tapping out on turn 3 for a Grey Ogre is pretty much a death sentence against most combo decks unless you are holding a full grip of FoW/Daze. But from there, it's pretty nice insurance against anything problematic.

And as mentioned before, it'd be sort of nice to have as a sideboard threat against Miracles since you can still beat down with the 2/2 gradually, and morph it if they decide to cast anything problematic (and Counterbalance does nothing to stop it countering their Terminus or whatever since the morphing isn't really a spell, and is instead a triggered ability).

Needless to say, but cards like Meddling Mage, Containment Priest, and Vendilion Clique are more immediate in their disruptive element and thus better Legacy cards. But I am open to the possibility of there being a Legacy-playable megamorpher.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Regarding Stratus Dancer: isn't the only way to 'counter' a Megamorph activation is by playing a card like Stifle, since morphing is what I assume to be a triggered effect?
.

Actually morphing is NOT a triggered ability (goes even around split second) however after they Megamorph you can Stifle the trigger when Stratus...
Just look at "when" "whenever" or "at" eg. you cant do much if someone flips up vesuvan shapeshifter but you can prevent him from turning face down in the upkeep!

[Ziveeman]

Flying
Whenever a dragon you control becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, Thunderbreak Regent deals 3 damage to that player.

Clearly fits in a Dragon stompy shell. Thoughts?

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Another illustrious addition to the "Whenever someone does something, LIGHTNING BOLT THEM IN THE FACE!" school of designing cards for Red.

Thanks Wizards!

[Lemnear]

WotC take on Sultai: Print 1cc blue Ancestral Recalls and 5cc black Demonic Tutors ...

[MaximumC]

That red Dragon seems very good. 4/4 with flying that does not "die to removal?" (It does something even if they nuke it from orbit before you untap). It's in the right colors and at the right cost to be considered in Dragon Stompy. I'm a huge fan!

Everything else from the set has been pretty "meh" from an Eternal standpoint so far, but fingers crossed.

[H]

New Commands are interesting (although, almost certainly not for Legacy).

Obviously the Blue ones will be poo-trash in comparison to the One-True Crypic, but I am interested in how the other 3 come out.

[Barook]

The number of shitty dragons spoiled so far scares me. I hope they don't just rely on their dragon gimmick to sell their set.

I have the feeling that none of those commands are going to be Legacy-playable.



GSZ-able Biorhythm. Not sure if there's any use for that.

[T-101]

New Commands could be cool. The UW one doesn't set a powerful precedent, but if there's a Delve X command, or CMC 3 or less Command, I'd probably try to use it.

Sadly, nothing quite playable yet, but we still got most of a big set to go.

[iamajellydonut]

GSZ-able Biorhythm. Not sure if there's any use for that.

I feel like when you have 11 available mana and eight power represented on the board, you kind of don't need anything else.