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Thread: [EDH] Chainer, Dementia Master

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    [EDH] Chainer, Dementia Master

    Chainer, Dementia Master: A Primer

    This deck developed out of a test in my local playgroup to create a “blue-less” metagame. That is, all EDH cards were legal (the regular ban list applied) except for anything with an Island symbol on the card (in case you’re wondering, Ghave, Guru of Spores has a field day with that format). In refining, testing, and tweaking Chainer for that format, I realized it had potential against other strong EDH decks.

    I’ll go over the the commander, present the decklist, explain card choices, examine strategies and lines of play, discuss strengths and weaknesses, and end with card replacements and exclusions.

    The Commander

    When it comes down to it, Chainer is a control deck with a combo finish. The idea is to do what black is good at: kill creatures, find key cards, sacrifice permanents for profit, and starve your opponents of resources. Chainer happens to fit the bill for a perfect build-around commander with his specific, yet powerful abilities:

    “All Nightmares get +1/+1.” - Do not forget this ability, it can help with late-game damage wars.

    “BBB, Pay 3 life: Put target creature card from a graveyard into play under your control. That creature is black and is a Nightmare in addition to its other types” - This is the reason to play Chainer. For the low cost of three mana and three life, you get to play with the creatures in every graveyard at the table. This effect can be played at instant speed and can be stacked as many times as you are willing to play BBB and three life. Keep in mind of the color change and the fact that the creature is now a Nightmare; this leads into…

    “When Chainer, Dementia Master leaves play, remove all Nightmares from the game.” - You can use this line to remove problematic creatures from other graveyards in response to removal on Chainer. Otherwise, you generally have to play around this with your own creatures, but it’s not hard with the way the deck is built.

    I’ve been told by many people to play Geth, Lord of the Vault as my commander, but he functions quite differently. Chainer is able to pull creatures from any graveyard, including your own, so a Geth deck would only function like this deck if it were playing against this deck.

    Decklist

    23 Swamp
    Bojuka Bog
    Cabal Coffers
    Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
    Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    Marsh Flats
    Verdant Catacombs
    Bloodstained Mire
    Polluted Delta
    Phyrexian Tower
    Volrath’s Stronghold
    Deserted Temple
    High Market
    Thespian’s Stage
    Vesuva

    Viscera Seer
    Blood Artist
    Reassembling Skeleton
    Withered Wretch
    Bloodghast
    Pawn of Ulamog
    Falkenrath Noble
    Mindslicer
    Gray Merchant of Asphodel
    Sadistic Hypnotist
    Ogre Slumlord
    Kokusho, the Evening Star
    Butcher of Malakir
    Sheoldred, Whispering One

    Crypt Ghast
    Nirkana Revenant
    Mana Crypt
    Sol Ring
    Jet Medallion
    Ashnod’s Altar
    Phyrexian Altar
    Solemn Simulacrum
    Gauntlet of Power
    Caged Sun

    Entomb
    Vampiric Tutor
    Diabolic Intent
    Demonic Tutor
    Grim Tutor
    Diabolic Tutor
    Sidisi, Undead Vizier
    Diabolic Revelation
    Rune-Scarred Demon
    Expedition Map

    Skeletal Scrying
    Dark Confidant
    Phyrexian Arena
    Dark Prophecy
    Infernal Tribute
    Disciple of Bolas
    Graveborn Muse
    Harvester of Souls
    Skullclamp

    Fleshbag Marauder
    Merciless Executioner
    Attrition
    Damnation
    Hellfire
    Massacre Wurm
    Oblivion Stone

    Phyrexian Reclamation
    Bitterblossom
    Gate to Phyrexia
    Contamination
    Yawgmoth’s Will
    Dread Return
    Grave Pact
    Altar of Dementia
    Crucible of Worlds
    Smokestack

    Liliana of the Veil
    Karn Liberated

    Card Choice Explanations

    Lands: I run 37 for consistency. You could probably get away with fewer, but land drops are important because Chainer is quite greedy with his mana.

    23 Swamp - Necessary for the function of the deck. This really should be 24 Swamps for better interaction with the mana doublers, but 23 is almost good enough and we have other things to run. These could be Snow-Covered and, in fact, were at one point when Extraplanar Lens was in the deck. That card is a trap, though, so don’t play it.

    Bojuka Bog - Slow but free graveyard removal. I always seem to draw this in my opening hand, but it’s good enough to keep for now.

    Cabal Coffers - Anybody who has played black knows this is the real commander of the deck.

    Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - A weaker Cabal Coffers but still very good with all the permanents we run.

    Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - Standard alongside Coffers. It can “turn on” some decks though, so be careful with how quickly this comes out.

    Marsh Flats - You don’t have to run fetches, but they provide a slight value boost with Crucible of Worlds in the deck. In order to be optimal, you need fetches.

    Verdant Catacombs - Fetch #2

    Bloodstained Mire - Fetch #3

    Polluted Delta - Fetch #4

    Phyrexian Tower - A sacrifice outlet and mana acceleration all in one! The mana it produces is perfect for…

    Volrath’s Stronghold - … this bad boy! Recursion to the top of the library isn’t great, but it’s on a land which makes it playable.

    Deserted Temple - Second activation out of Coffers and Nykthos for even more mana.

    High Market - This is a nice sacrifice outlet. I used to run Miren, the Moaning Well but the cost is kind of prohibitive.

    Thespian’s Stage - Good for copying clutch lands around the table.

    Vesuva - This is generally Coffers #2. It comes into play tapped, so it can be awkward. Luckily, we have a bunch of very good lands to copy.

    Creatures: The creatures mostly serve as utility and have synergy with cards moving in and out of the graveyard.

    Viscera Seer - A sac outlet and card quality all for B. I like seeing this at pretty much every point in the game.

    Blood Artist - This provides small value over time that can swing the game in your favor. Passive life gain is very important for Chainer. There is a reason people pay 10x what this card is worth to pick it up.

    Reassembling Skeleton - Small recursive body. He is nice with all the sac outlets we run.

    Withered Wretch - A worse version of Scavenging Ooze but a necessary evil. He does add to our devotion count quite nicely.

    Bloodghast - This is the reason to hit land drops every turn. He comes back for free and loves being binned for value.

    Pawn of Ulamog - His trigger is a bit restrictive as the creature needs to be yours and a non-token, but he does help chain together combos with the two Altars.

    Falkenrath Noble - A bigger Blood Artist. Not as good, but it does fly over blockers for damage…?

    Mindslicer - Your graveyard is your hand, so there is no use hanging onto it. Also, this messes with the other players’ game plans and gives you more toys to play with. What’s not to like?

    Gray Merchant of Asphodel - He’s probably better than Kokusho at killing the table. His devotion trigger will generally hit double digits, reducing the overall amount of mana you need to spend to kill the board.

    Sadistic Hypnotist - This is a hateful card that is only tamed by the sorcery speed timing requirement. This card makes more people scoop than Kokusho (don’t scoop, it’s bad value).

    Ogre Slumlord - Pawn of Ulamog’s big brother with a slightly looser requirement to trigger. The deathtouch can be nice for blocking.

    Kokusho, the Evening Star - This is the second main kill of the deck. Remember, this is a “dies” trigger while Merchant’s is an “enters the battlefield” trigger.

    Butcher of Malakir - Grave Pact on a body that can be recurred.

    Sheoldred, Whispering One - She’s slow and people hate her which turns you into a target. Still, she’s good enough to run.

    Mana Ramp: A necessary evil of the format but, luckily, black has some unique options. It should be noted that Cabal Coffers and friends can be included in this category as they have a functional mana cost around -2 or -3 starting on turn five.

    Crypt Ghast - The cheapest mana doubler we have and it can be recurred. When playing this card, try to plan around it to maximize the mana you have available. Remember to extort when you have the mana available.

    Nirkana Revenant - Bigger, but probably not better than Crypt Ghast. Can be a kill condition.

    Mana Crypt - Oh my, so good. Necessary and the damage is almost irrelevant.

    Sol Ring - I know a lot of groups that have a house rule banning turn one Sol Rings.

    Jet Medallion - As long as you can play two black spells per turn, this becomes very good. It’s not hard to accomplish, however; it doesn’t help with Chainer’s ability cost.

    Ashnod’s Altar - Sacrifice a creature, make mana, profit.

    Phyrexian Altar - Do it better! This is the crutch a few of the infinite combos in the deck as it can pay for Chainer’s ability with a few creatures in play. This deck suffers quite a bit without access to this card.

    Solemn Simulacrum - It’s a staple in Commander. With Chainer, you can hit land drops and draw cards every turn.

    Gauntlet of Power - Standard mana doubler. It also pumps your tokens. It has a strange interaction with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth: if you choose black, any player who doesn’t have a black commander can attempt to tap a basic land for black and will add two colorless mana to their pool instead.

    Caged Sun - This one is only for you and will double any black source. Don’t forget about the anthem effect; that can help close out some games.

    Tutors: Black has a very strong suite of tutors that can find anything. Most of the time, you will not need to reveal what you got to the other players which can be helpful for mind games.

    Entomb - So good at instant speed with Chainer on board. This card will generally allow you to find an answer to the board.

    Vampiric Tutor - Early game, look for ramp. Late game, find your kills. There is enough draw in the deck to get your answer the same turn you cast this.

    Diabolic Intent - A Demonic Tutor with a “drawback”. You can usually profit from the sacrifice.

    Demonic Tutor - Gold standard, baby!

    Grim Tutor - This card shows how good Demonic Tutor is.

    Diabolic Tutor - Much more mediocre than the other tutors, but it still finds you whatever you need and is great late game.

    Sidisi, Undead Vizier - This is very new, but he can exploit himself to create a loop with Chainer that reads: “BBB, Pay 3 life: Search your library for a card and put that card in your hand. Shuffle your library.”

    Diabolic Revelation - Draw X, where X is every card you need to win the game.

    Rune-Scarred Demon - Expensive, but it’s a creature and can be recurred for value. Like Sidisi, but worse without a sac outlet.

    Expedition Map - Go find that Cabal Coffers! Honestly, this card is not great beyond that, but Coffers is so good that it’s a pretty important tutor.

    Card Draw: Necessary to stay ahead on answers. Some of these double as engine pieces.

    Skeletal Scrying - This is a test slot for the time being, but it has the potential to draw a bunch of cards before my turn so I can untap and win. The life loss is generally inconsequential and you can remove cards from your yard that aren't needed any longer.

    Dark Confidant - Cheap and a body that can be sacrificed when the pain gets too great.

    Phyrexian Arena - Passive, inoffensive card draw. The life loss can be mitigated.

    Dark Prophecy - Quite good and the BBB mana cost helps devotion. The trigger is a not a may, so keep that in mind when your life total dips low.

    Infernal Tribute - The errata reads “sacrifice a nontoken permanent”. It’s still very good to help dig into your deck. Needs expendable creatures to function well so this card is borderline win-more.

    Disciple of Bolas - Recur this with Chainer for value and life gain. It cannot sacrifice itself, so this card suffers from an empty board.

    Graveborn Muse - Phyrexian Arena #2. There are a few zombies in the deck which can make the card draw more significant. Again, not a may, so watch that life total.

    Harvester of Souls - It’s a Dark Prophecy for when any creature dies. The trigger is a may, so watch what’s going on with the board so you don’t miss triggers.

    Skullclamp - It adds a mana to your sacrifice effects and is only sorcery speed, but this thing draws cards like crazy.

    Removal:

    Fleshbag Marauder - This can sacrifice itself to its own trigger to create a loop with Chainer to clear creatures off the board.

    Merciless Executioner - Used to be Slum Reaper but this is better because of the mana cost. I don’t think I want three of this effect quite yet, but it’s nice to have the option.

    Attrition - Narrow, but it’s a sac outlet and removal all in one.

    Damnation - Standard sweeper for when you need a reset button. It’s almost unnecessary, but is the best option when you don’t have a board state.

    Hellfire - This might need some explaining. It’s a sweeper that doesn’t hit your board. The life loss is 3 plus 1 for each creature that dies, not 3 for each creature. I have yet to have this card kill me and, in fact, it generally puts me in the best position of the group. Just try it out and see what it can do for you.

    Massacre Wurm - Wrath effect with passive damage stapled on. It can help stymie Reveillark loops.

    Oblivion Stone - This is your “Oh Shit” button for when you have lost control of the board. Don’t play it out without the mana to activate it - it tends to make people mad. Mad people like punching you with creatures.

    Utility:

    Phyrexian Reclamation - The activation costs less than Chainer’s so you can grab cards out of your graveyard in response to removal. This is essentially Chainer-lite.

    Bitterblossom - Passive token generator. It was better when Braids, Cabal Minion was legal but it still makes blockers and tokens to sacrifice.

    Gate to Phyrexia - An interesting card. It’s a slow sac outlet with an ability you don’t generally see in black. Still testing this, but it’s positive so far.

    Contamination - A nice lock piece with an upkeep requirement you can spin to your advantage. This card can give you enough time to assemble a win.

    Yawgmoth’s Will - This card is so good. Keep in mind that Chainer loops will not work while this effect is active and you can really screw yourself if stuff gets destroyed. Still, it’s restricted in Vintage for a reason.

    Dread Return - This card is quite nice as a Chainer activation that does not require life as part of the cost. It's pretty good when you're behind on board and can be a narrow sac outlet in order to get an engine on board.

    Grave Pact - Another way to keep the board clear. If another player has a Pact out, the interactions can become fairly asinine, but we generally benefit from stuff going to the graveyard.

    Altar of Dementia - You can use it on yourself to find more toys to play with. You can also activate this infinitely (with some setup) to mill the other players out of the game.

    Crucible of Worlds - Coffers tends to die a lot and this helps get it back. It is also pretty great with fetchlands.

    Smokestack - Slow, but it can become quite heinous. Stack your triggers correctly on your upkeep to avoid the extra sacrifice!

    Planeswalkers:

    Liliana of the Veil - Probably not the Liliana you thought you would see, but she’s the best. It’s card advantage and toys for Chainer and a sac outlet all in one. The ultimate is irrelevant because you’ll never get to it.

    Karn Liberated - Removal, plain and simple. Two Vindicates or strip cards out of problematic players’ hands.

    Strategies and Lines of Play

    Chainer plays out as a permanent-heavy control deck. It is very mana-hungry so it’s important to establish a board presence early. The first few turns are spent building resources or setting up ways to generate resources (cards and mana). Do not be afraid to let your life total dip below 20, but be aware that you need life to win the game. After you have established that, you will generally want to get Chainer on the board and start accruing value from his ability. Keep in mind that the deck doesn’t function as well without access to its commander. From there, the game will develop along these paths:

    Plan A: Get access to Merchant of Asphodel/Kokusho, the Evening Star. Find a reusable sac outlet. Spam these creatures in and out of the graveyard to either end the game or put you at a nice, comfortable life total.

    Plan B: Find Altar of Dementia. Assemble an infinite loop and mill the other players out of the game. This usually involves the creatures that make tokens, the Altars, and Chainer or Phyrexian Reclamation.

    Plan C: Find Blood Artist and Falkenrath Noble. Abuse the graveyard and ping the other players to death. Find card draw engines and stock removal for anyone who tries to stop you.

    Plan D: Token beatdown. Kill the board with anthem effects and rat/faerie/spawn tokens.

    Plan Z: Commander Voltron. Don’t do this.

    Strengths and Weaknesses

    Chainer excels against any type of deck that uses creatures to win. It can be extremely difficult for these decks to mount any sort of offense against you as you can passively wipe the board as you set up your recursion engines.

    Mid-range and control decks that attempt to set up a board presence against you are generally too slow to beat you at your own game. These decks can pack removal, so be aware of that.

    Combo decks will roll over Chainer, so don’t even try. He will never be Tier 1 because he can’t interact enough. If you’re lucky, you could strip their hand with Mindslicer and set up an engine to win, but that may only happen in one out of ten games.

    Chainer is a permanent-heavy deck so anything that attacks pieces you’ve put in play can be problematic. Try to keep a sac outlet and Chainer in play.

    Anything that attacks your graveyard must be played around carefully. Chainer can recur at instant-speed, but things like Tormod’s Crypt and Relic of Progenitus can hurt if you get caught with your pants down. Try to keep mana open to put your kill conditions in a “safe zone” to avoid having them removed from the game.

    Card Replacements and Exclusions

    Some of the more expensive cards in the deck can be replaced but it does lower the overall potential of the deck. These cards are there for a reason.

    Mana Crypt - Replace with another ramp spell like Magus of the Coffers or Gilded Lotus.

    Grim Tutor - I think Beseech the Queen is the best replacement, but you have to reveal the card you find.

    Dark Confidant - Pretty much any other draw spell on a stick. You could run Dark Tutelage.

    Damnation - This card jumped in price a lot. There are other black mass removal spells you can play, but they don’t hit the same sweet spot of mana cost and effect.

    Bitterblossom - You don’t have to run this, but it’s so cheap to cast and it provides a very useful passive effect. I’d replace it with another sac outlet, or some mana ramp.

    Crucible of Worlds - Again, a small effect, but it adds up. If you can’t find one, supplement with a pet card you want to play.

    The planeswalkers can be replaced with removal since that’s essentially what they do. Nothing is quite as flexible though. I’d say [card]All is Dust[/cards] comes pretty close for Karn. Maybe [cards]Syphon Mind[/card] for Liliana?

    I will attempt to go over notable exclusions from the deck, but there are a ton of cards that could fit. There is only so much room in the deck and the balance between the different pieces needs to be maintained.

    Exsanguinate - This card does not fit with the synergy of the deck and requires me to use most of my mana on a turn to get value. I have creatures that do the same thing (at instant speed with Chainer). It also is a card that really aggravates the other players and makes me a target. It was included in the deck until very recently, so I’ve had a lot of experience playing it. With another commander, I’d say it’s quite playable.

    Strip Mine - It doesn’t produce black mana, but it could be an easy inclusion over another land in a playgroup with a lot of must-answer lands.

    Sangromancer - I’ve seen this in a few versions of Chainer, but it doesn’t interact with our side of the board and relying on opponents to trigger your abilities is a terrible way to play. It’s cute with Memory Jar, but I don’t run that.

    Rings of Brighthearth - I used to run this and it’s quite good when it gets going, but, by now, everyone knows what it does and it will turn you into a target even if you have nothing to abuse with it on board.

    Artifact mana rocks - the deck needs black mana, so the doublers are generally superior.

    Conclusion

    Chainer is a strong board control deck with a variety of combo or synergistic finishes. It manages problems until it “stumbles” upon the pieces necessary to set up graveyard loops. While being only one color, it can emulate the mana ramp of green decks, the card draw of blue decks, the damage output of red decks, and the board control of white decks. It attacks the board in a fairly unique way which makes it fun and challenging to play correctly. While not Tier 1, it can generate difficult-to-answer board states and has no problem keeping up with other competitive decks.

    Change Log

    4/7/2015:
    - Bloodgift Demon
    - Carnage Altar
    + Skeletal Scrying
    + Dread Return
    Last edited by Baumeister; 04-07-2015 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Card Changes

  2. #2
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    Re: [EDH] Chainer, Dementia Master

    That's a pretty impressive primer! I had only a couple of thoughts reading it:
    Nezumi Graverobber is twice as expensive to activate as Withered Wretch, but has a huge upside. I guess this depends on what kind of graveyard removal you need.
    Is Dread Return too low-impact to run? You have lots of little recursive creatures, some great reanimation targets, and a lot of sacrifice outlets. On the other hand your general already handles the reanimation side of things and you have plenty of sacrifice outlets.

    I especially like the Hellfire and the use of some of the triple-black enchantments. Looks good!
    InfoNinjas

  3. #3

    Re: [EDH] Chainer, Dementia Master

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTroll View Post
    That's a pretty impressive primer!
    Thanks! It's a regurgitation of a couple of years of fiddling with this deck.

    Nezumi Graverobber is twice as expensive to activate as Withered Wretch, but has a huge upside. I guess this depends on what kind of graveyard removal you need.
    For what that slot is intended for, I believe Withered Wretch is better for a few reasons. First, you mentioned the mana and that's probably the key point. I can remove twice as many cards from various graveyards with Wretch as opposed to the Graverobber. Secondly, this is minor, but Wretch helps devotion more and our main kill is Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Lastly, the second ability on a flipped Graverobber competes with Chainer. I never really find myself needing another reanimator past the commander.

    Is Dread Return too low-impact to run? You have lots of little recursive creatures, some great reanimation targets, and a lot of sacrifice outlets. On the other hand your general already handles the reanimation side of things and you have plenty of sacrifice outlets.
    I ran Dread Return for a long time in this deck but it ended up being cut due to lack of space. Again, Chainer is the best reanimation in the deck and I always have access to him. If I could find space, I'd probably run it as it's quite synergistic with the rest of the deck.

    EDIT:

    I tested Dread Return and it was quite solid. Good suggestion!

    Also, Carnage Altar and Bloodgift Demon have both come out to make room for Dread Return and Skeletal Scrying as a test slot. Those cards were redundant copies of other effects I already had in the deck and were honestly quite bad. I'm hoping Scrying gives me a way to reuse some of my resources to replenish my hand. The other option I was looking at was Reprocess but I believe Scrying is a little better when behind on board.
    Last edited by Baumeister; 04-07-2015 at 09:06 AM. Reason: Update

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