Thanks for this great post Bougnat. Looking forward to exploring your ideas here. Dark Depths has gained in popularity so the bounce tech looks interesting. I would be interested in what cards you are sideboarding out in each matchup as well. Have you tried unmask, pharaoh, or surgical extraction in the sideboard? Congrats on your nice finishes.
Just felt like dropping in to say that I went 2–1 with Manaless Dredge on Sunday, and it was a blast. It was my first time playing Manaless at an event (I play LED Dredge sometimes); I wasn't expecting to get the chance to play that day, so I was borrowing the deck. In spite of the fact that I was playing with a four-card sideboard, I managed to beat Lands(!!!) and Elves. I lost to Grixis Delver and lost one in the other two rounds (Leyline and Tabernacle got me), but I think a full sideboard probably would've changed some things. I only ever 'boarded in one card; either Ashen Rider or Iona.
Definitely going to start messing around with a Manaless list. Might see whether it's worth it to incorporate LEDs.
All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
PM me if you want to contribute!
I've not been playing legacy in a long time, last time was last summer at a GP side event. I was on the blue version then with FoW, Probe, Whirlpools etc.
With both Gitaxian Probe and Deathrite Shaman banned now, which version would you recommend going forward? DRS ban seems great for us.
With Deathrite Shaman gone, my interest has once again peaked with this deck. Not that it was really a big deal before, but it put a competitive constraint on Manaless because of the card's ubiquity in the format. It wasn't something you intrinsically had to fear, but there was always the possibility that a hand without Street Wraith or Phantasmagorian just folded to any random Deathrite deck in the format.
Otherwise, it was pure gas.
I think this deck will pick up directly where it left off in 2012. Not only is Top gone (to ensure Miracles had the ability to find answers), but now Deathrite is gone, too. Probe leaving didn't really hurt Manaless, because it was just a free accelerator and here and there a pitch card to Force.
I think the time to reinvest is now. People are already kicking up Canadian Thresh talk into high gear, and if that deck starts shooting up the ranks, this was one of the premiere decks in the format to feast on it (like it did during its heyday).
EDIT: I would stick with blue. It's hard to say where Storm goes without Probe, but Manaless can get around its loss with no problem.
Here's what a Summer of 2018 Manaless Dredge list looks like from me:
Manaless Dredge
[4x] Golgari Grave-Troll
[4x] Stinkweed Imp
[4x] Golgari Thug
[4x] Ichorid
[4x] Nether Shadow
[4x] Narcomoeba
[4x] Bridge from Below
[4x] Cabal Therapy
[4x] Dread Return
[4x] Phantasmagorian
[4x] Street Wraith
[4x] Force of Will
[4x] Prized Amalgam
[4x] Whirlpool Rider
[2x] Faerie Macabre
[1x] Shambling Shell
[1x] Flayer of the Hatebound
//Sideboard
[4x] Leyline of Sanctity
[4x] Disrupting Shoal
[4x] Mindbreak Trap
[2x] Faerie Macabre
[1x] Ashen Rider
...To start. Beware of Crop Rotation and Thoughtseize decks. Leyline of Sanctity is your bread and butter there.
Sorry, I had to change the list. The new list is posted above (edited).
1. You want Faerie main. The amount of Reanimator decks you'll see pop up - at first - will be staggering. This includes Loam strategies, as well. If you look at the lists I've played historically, I always run a pair.
2. You want Leyline of Sanctity. Badly. Crop Rotation and Thoughtseize decks will emerge.
3. Four Force or bust main.
4. Prized Amalgam, the fourth Force and a set of Whirlpool Rider fills out the Probe slot from before.
5. Mindbreak Trap with Leyline (and Force) shores up the Storm match-up as it always does.
6. Expect Stoneforge and Rest in Peace/Containment Priest to show up. This is where four Shoals are needed. You have two-cost spells in other Shoals, Narcomoeba and the full set of Riders (twelve total). That with Force should be enough.
Leyline of Sanctity comes in against the following decks and strategies:
1. Discard-centric decks.
2. Burn decks.
3. Storm/Belcher decks.
4. Crop Rotation->Bog decks.
It's going to be so good. I remember how many times that card saved me from getting locked out. Don't underestimate its power; it's probably one of the best sideboard options the deck has.
I see little to no reason to use Chancellor of the Annex or Force of Will anymore, with Deathrite Shaman gone there will be a rise of Reanimator and a fall of Storm.
I aggre with that, Force of will really don't seems relevant in the game 1.
I play a lot versus ANT and I can assure that Mindbreak Trap don't do a trick because ANT have too much discard. Moreover without Probe her discard number will increase.
With the disparition of Shaman, the number of graveyard hate will rise from 3 to 4 or 5 in all sideboard I think. Our worst enemie : Grafdigger's Cage will come back.
Do we take this opportunity to up the number of dredgers in the main? At 15 dredgers I still find I have to mull way too often. Can those Probes turn into Greater Mossdogs for higher overall consistency at the cost of speed?
Chancellor of the Annex does nothing to stop Rest in Peace or Containment Priest, the opponent has 12 cantrips to cast into Chancellor of the Annex on turn one for a turn two lock, and neither of those cards are in the MD for Force of Will to counter i.e. there is no reason to MD Force of Will ourselves in order to let them know we are playing Force of Will for game 2. With Storm increasing discard, MD Force of Will has little to no impact on combo and the deck is likely better off with a card like Gigapede, Mossdog, Chancellor of the Forge for a minor increase in consistency or Vengeful Pharaoh to prortect the deck from slow starts vs aggro.
Sooo, anyone else wanna get crazy and do the Hoard Moar thing again? I remember playing this back in 2016 shortly after Prized Amalgam came out, and it was fun to play. Resorted back to a more typical blue Whirlpool Rider/Fow deck lately. There was talk about this back around page 21, little before, little after.
Need to figure out what to do with those g.probe slots, but with DRS gone, less bodies to get eaten from the yard. I do expect there to be an uptick in Cage decks, but RIP will likey still be in the expected decks (D&T, Miracles).
Deck I last played with first posted by mistercakes:
4 Narcomoeba
4 Street Wraith
2 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Nether Shadow
2 Ashen Ghoul
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ichorid
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Bridge From Below
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Prized Amalgam
3 Dread Return
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Nature's Claim
2 Undiscovered Paradise
Thinking about adding a Therapy +1, Shell +2, Ashen +1 to replace the G. Probes. And scrapping the LED sb (because those cards are in another deck) for +4 FoW, +4 Faerire, +1 MB Trap, +3 Contagion
// Legacy - Manaless Dredge Horde Moar
// LULZ
// 60 Maindeck
// 47 Creature
4 Narcomoeba
4 Street Wraith
2 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Nether Shadow
3 Ashen Ghoul
4 Ichorid
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Prized Amalgam
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Shambling Shell
// 2 Enchantment
2 Bridge from Below
// 4 Land
4 Dakmor Salvage
// 7 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Dread Return
// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
// 11 Instant
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 3 Contagion
Hi everybody,
ahg113 I liked the last list you posted, I'm going to give it a try. I never played with Dakmor Salvage, so I'm curious to try it. Actually, after the ban of Gitaxian Probe I felt a bit lost. I'm going to replace it with something else also on my other list with Balustrade Spy, the fearless one; I still don't know how.
Looking at the list, I have a couple of questions:
- The plan against Grafdigger's Cage and Rest in Peace is Force of Will, am I right?
- Why only 2x Bridge from Below?
- Is Vengeful Pharaoh main mainly for Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Containment Priest?
- Is Iona, Shield of Emeria so important?
Thanks for your attention.
Happy dredging to everybody!
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