I'll give Kelpie a shot, despite being skeptical. Dumb as it sounds, I'm generally trying to avoid a combo finish just to have some diversity in my decks (my other combo decks are faster anyway).
+1 Cabal Therapy (4)
-1 DR (3)
-1 Nether Shadow (3)
-1 Bloodghast (3) (unless there are other suggestions - may trim a flayer instead since this will churn through the deck quickly to find it)
+2 kelpie. (2)
Well see how that works. I don't have/run FOW so no need to keep the blue count up in the event it doesn't really work out. But, if it gets my bridges in the yard and more narcs in play, cabals to flashback for tokens, I'll be a happy dredger!
If you don't need blue cards for FoW just go w/ the Balustrade Spy build. DR Balustrady Spy = I win this turn, DR Kelpie = I might win next turn. It's the fastest and most efficient route to victory.
Last edited by Echelon; 09-20-2017 at 02:19 AM.
Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack
I agree 100%.
BUT, overrunning with the horde sounds fun too. I'm going to run with that for a bit and just see where it takes me.
Figured I'd give this one a bump. A Manaless list went 6-0 in the last legacy challenge and finished 3rd.
Spicy tech included 1x Sandwurm Convergence in the SB, likely for the SnT matchup.
List in the link below.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2017-10-09
It's a Spy list. The Convergence is just some nice trolling, or b/c they didn't have a second Ashen Rider.
It works fine if you have it, but that's a rather big if.
That's correct. 2x would be a better number but Ashen Rider is overall better. 1 of each for extra flavor and style points perhaps.
Coming back to Legacy, I sold all my playsets (kept 1x of each card for Commander though), so I had to choose a cheap deck, but powerful
I'm going Fearless because I was never comfortable with sideboarding in Dredge, and this deck is even worse at it than its brother.// 60 Maindeck
Aggro (18)
4x Bridge from Below
4x Ichorid
4x Narcomoeba
3x Nether Shadow
3x Prized Amalgam
Disrupt (7)
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Chancellor of the Annex
Engine (15)
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari Thug
3x Shambling Shell
4x Stinkweed Imp
Enablers (12)
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Phantasmagorian
4x Street Wraith
Late Game (8)
1x Ashen Rider
2x Balustrade Spy
4x Dread Return
1x Flayer of the Hatebound
// 15 Sideboard
15x Island
There is subtle balance to achieve between Shambling Shell / Chancellor of the Annex / Nether Shadow / Prized Amalgam. You want to play them all but there are only 12 spots for them, so 3x of each it is.
You need Shambling Shell because you can't play the deck with less than 15 dredgers.
You can't get rid of your creatures because you want to reanimate stuff ASAP and trigger your Bridges as often as you can.
You can't quite play without Chancellor of the Annex or you get wrecked by a lot more of fast decks, plus it's another Dread Return target, powerful against Storm.
Just cut Gitaxian Probe and run sets of four, you'll practically never resolve Gitaxian Probe vs any Island deck.
The deck is too slow without. You really want to set off with an additional dredge on your turn 2. I guess having it often countered is the price to pay to better the non-U match-ups.
Most non-blue (non-combo) MUs are pretty good, since they can't counter your combo finish.
I rebuilt the deck as well, 14 dredgers, SB looking like this:
4x FOW
4x leyline of sanctity
3x faerie macabre
3x sickening shoal
1x progenitus
Can't wait to play it at a live event, most fun I had in mtg was with this deck, ppl around confused or appalled. :-)
I would rather get rid of some DR targets. Chancellor is in itself a fine DR target and I wouldnt go home without 4.
It's tricky though. DR -> Balustrade Spy = I win this turn. DR -> Chancellor = I will probably win in a couple of turns. That "I win"-button lets you steal a lot of games (and yes, I know, Chancellor gives you a fighting chance in your really poor MUs, I'm aware. There's just so little space and so much one would want to run).
I would do this:
+1 Prized Amalgam. This little guy is awesome and does everything you want to do. It's a powerful recurring threat that is "Terminus proof". With Amalgams in the deck, the Miracles players never get a good window to play Terminus, something always sticks to the board. Also, Amalgams help you with the combo finish.
Dread Return targeting Flayer of the Hatebound, Flayer trigger deals 4 and all your Prized Amalgams trigger, sac Flayer to any sac outlet (Cabal Therapy or another DT), Flayer comes back with an undying counter and deals 5, end of turn 4x Prized amalgam enters the battlefield and Flayer triggers deal another 12 damage. That's 21 total.
Just make sure you sac any Amalgams already on the board before Flayer comes back the second time.
-1 Ashen Rider. Not super useful in the main. Reasonable sideboard card vs SnT decks, but still not awesome in my experience.
I play a blue version with Whirlpool Rider instead of Balustrade Spy. I cut 1 Bridge, Nether Shadow, Shambling Shell and Dread Return for some FoWs, but most or all of them should probably be in the board. I've been experimenting a bit since I got them.
You can totally get away with 3 Dread Return. I find I very rarely want all 4. You don't need to DT anything after the Flayer if you play 4 Amalgams, see above.
Also, you don't really need 15 dredgers. I've tried as few as 12 and it works, but would be comfortable with 14.
One last thing, not related to your list. I read about a handy trick in another thread, using Cabal Therapy and Surgical Extraction. I don't know if it has been mentioned here.
If you Cabal Therapy your blue opponent and they respond with Brainstorm, let it resolve, then with CT still on the stack Surgical their Brainstorm (or any other card) and get perfect information for your CT.
thanks for your advices. I keep Ashen Rider MD because I don't bother with a SB, and sometimes, sometimes, SOMETIMES you just encounter that random Lands deck with Glacial Chasm MD which nullifies you. It's a last resort card to solve these kind of problematic permanents in G1.
I don't agree with less than 15 dredgers. More than one time I've kept a hand with only 1 Shambling Shell and it turned good. We all know that the logic is 1 mulligan = 1 Timewalk for your opponent. Shambling Shell maybe only put 3 cards into the GY, but in this case has a good probability to hit a bigger dredger. Anyway even after 2 turns of Shambling Shells you'll end up with the same amount of cards in the GY than with 1 turn of GGT (= 6). The math is on the side of Shambling Shell and with my list I never mulligan.
It's also primary ammunition for Ichorids.
@Marina: If I ever were to replace a Shell (I'm on 15 dredgers as well) I'd probably replace it with a 4th Spy, since that'll make the combo finish slightly more consistent whilst still serving as Ichorid food. But that's pretty much the only trade I'd be willing to make.
On average the deck is faster without Gitixian Probe than with it since Gitxian Probe isn't a creature to activate Nether Shadow. As far as Shambling Shell is concerned, I think a lot of people don't understand that even if the deck can goldfish with 12 Dredgers it can't win without 16 Dredgers vs any form of hate post-board. Redundancy is the deck's bread and butter, it's as simple as that.
I'm not so sure about that. Getting Nether Shadow in play faster might mean more really fast wins, but I still think the average win is faster with probes than without them.
My Probes often set up strong T3s.
"Can't win" is quite the exaggeration. If you are referring to targeted graveyard hate such as Surgical Extraction, I find opponents usually go for my Ichorids, not my dredgers. I've won plenty of sideboarded games with 12 dredgers. I'm still not saying it's optimal and I'm playing 14 now, but noone benefits from statements like "it can't win". Let's try to keep the discussion a bit more nuanced. :)
Playing in a monthly tomorrow, 1st time in a real real long time (part way through Khans, stopped before they banned top, then stopped because team italia was sad).
Crazyness, have a horde way mode moar with Ashen ghouls, vampires, salvages, and transform sideboard with led's and faithless looting. I don't even remember the drugs I took to make this pile.
Anyhow, a friend told me that there is less gy hate, and I should expect splash hate from reanimator (mainly surgical). That and there is a bunch of drs out and about. Looking for an update on the scene and what can be recommended for manaless, non-spy.
I have the whirlpool riders and FoW options.
What are the decks to expect? What is a thing, not a thing? Playing in the Philly/Maryland area, expect blue, combo, tri-color good stuff decks. Aiming for .500 or better, more to hang out.
Best sb options?
Thanks for any help.
Good luck tomorrow. Don't forget to grace us with a report!
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