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Thread: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

  1. #1261
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Hi everyone, I'm pretty new to the manaless version of dredge and I was hoping a more advanced pilot could please give some insight on how to mulligan properly, especially in the face of a known leyline of the void with Force of Vigor in mind.

    Thank you!
    Once you go Legacy...

  2. #1262
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    Scott, what matches did you bring in Serum Powder for, and how did it work out? How about the second Gigapede?
    It hasn't come up much in my first week on MTGO, but I've liked it in paper. It comes in against anything that features a near auto-loss for Manaless, in this deck that 95% of the time doesn't want to mulligan. e.g. Powder + Force of Vigor against LotV/RiP/Cage, Powder + Shoal/Contagion vs. Priest/Ooze, Powder + LotV vs. graveyard combo. Manaless is unique in both truly requiring sideboard answers and being allergic to mulligans to find them.

    With the opponents wielding the London Mulligan for graveyard hate, the odds of drawing a 4-of aren't high enough for me. It's also nice with LotV on MTGO with B/R Reanimator everywhere, and presumably the equally rampant Bomberman, but I don't have a ton of games against it to know the impact. It's not like the other plans of Karn and Mentor are as scary to us. Although in that match up there's a sideboard balancing act because they probably bring in Priest so you want Shoals/Contagion, but still want the combo kill cards because of Bridge via Karn. But the match up topic is another discussion. Like most combo, it's tough, but I'll see how I fare with LotV. Some metas will want different combo hate cards.

    I haven't run numbers, but you're quite likely to get your required answer with 3-4 answers and 3-4 powders. In paper I've routinely had "mulligans" like: Opening 7 with Powder and no Force of Vigor -> New opening 7 with Powder and no Force -> New opening 7 with Force

    It consolidates the sideboard. It's not quite the same because it's only good on your opening hand and you can't draw into it, but it's like having 7 LotV, 7 FoV and 6 Sickening Shoals.

    Another route is to go and , so that you have multiple cards to answer RiP and Cage. I tried to make that work, and it has some nice things, like FoW answering everything but LotV and stopping RiP before its EtB effect, but I'm not big on it for a few reasons. There's the aforementioned space issue; you're probably low on Contagion effects or combo hate. And, again, post-London Mulligan, you only have four shots at a LotV answer in FoV. The blue route game me headaches in two other ways.

    The main reason is sideboarding. You're bringing in a half dozen cards but can't board out the combo package because you need Whirlpool creatures for the blue count, so you end up watering down business and often sputtering. Of course, even with a list like mine, sometimes it's better to keep the combo in if you're sideboarding. You may need speed, or you may not need Cabal Therapy because there are no counter spells or there's Chalice, or you can take out some Shambling Shells because you're not boarding in Force of Vigor and Shambling Shell consistency is worth less than your sideboard cards, etc.

    Secondly, with Hogaak we're now even more incentivized to dump our hand with Phantasmagorian, and it doesn't always come up, but it creates complications with Whirlpool reanimation, and same as before, can slow you down with fewer recurring creatures, Bridges, Therapies, etc.

    Gigapede always helps smooth things out, especially with Phantasmagorian. It's another green card for FoV, and especially shines in post board games when it frees you up to shrink your hand size with pitch cards, and still be able to get back a dredger from your hand. The main deck Gigapede is basically the best of mediocre options. Ideally, I think the deck wants another card that gets things going, like a 5th Ichorid, but there is none. I don't like early counter-able cards and I like cards that work from the graveyard; Gigapede fits the bill, and can often discard an Ichorid or Nether Shadow stuck in hand in the early game to get things going, triggering Prized Amalgam or getting you Bridge tokens. So it comes in when you bring in FoV, or when you bring in Shoal and have room. I've liked it.

    My thoughts are still evolving so this isn't set in stone, and there are other routes to explore.

  3. #1263

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Great write-up! Thanks!

  4. #1264
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    Great write-up! Thanks!
    Anytime! Oh, also, I forgot to mention another time you bring Gigapede in: against Tormod's Crypt and Nihil Spellbomb, so you can discard more than one card in a turn, while maintaining maximum hand size and get right back to discarding and dredging after they pop it.

  5. #1265

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Force of vigor changed my life!!!!

  6. #1266
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Really interesting to see Edge of Autumn being paired with the Dryad Arbor/Dakmor Salvage/Bloodghast package, in this list from TheSleepingEye that 5-0'd a MTGO league.

    // Creature (36)
    4 Bloodghast
    1 Flayer of the Hatebound
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Ichorid
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Phantasmagorian
    3 River Kelpie
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Street Wraith

    // Sorcery (12)
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Dread Return
    4 Edge of Autumn

    // Enchantment (4)
    4 Bridge from Below

    // Land (8)
    4 Dakmor Salvage
    4 Dryad Arbor

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 Contagion
    SB: 4 Force of Vigor
    SB: 1 Forest
    SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
    SB: 1 Petrified Field
    SB: 1 Reverent Silence

  7. #1267

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I think autumn version is more interesting than effective, specially post side. However 5-0 is pretty nice.

  8. #1268
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    I think autumn version is more interesting than effective, specially post side. However 5-0 is pretty nice.
    Basically my take too. I goldfished it ~50 times and it felt like it has the capability to sometimes be more explosive, but is less consistent overall.

  9. #1269

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    My meta is pretty Marit Lage-heavy. Are there any cards that Manaless can play that shut Turbo Depths down? I could put Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard for Bojuka Bog and discard, but I'll prob just get a 20/20 to the face anyway. I'm fine with just chalking it up as a loss, but wanted to double-check I wasn't missing any stronk mana-free sideboard hosers.

  10. #1270
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Lava Snacks View Post
    My meta is pretty Marit Lage-heavy. Are there any cards that Manaless can play that shut Turbo Depths down? I could put Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard for Bojuka Bog and discard, but I'll prob just get a 20/20 to the face anyway. I'm fine with just chalking it up as a loss, but wanted to double-check I wasn't missing any stronk mana-free sideboard hosers.
    Yeah, it's always fine to ask.

    The matchup is somewhat unfavorable. The main ways Manaless Dredge loses are to a Turn 2 Marit Lage or to Crop Rotation into Bojuka Bog. The Crop Rotation + Bog line is just a bullet you have to dodge. Leyline of Sanctity isn't worth it in this matchup, in my opinion. There's so much redundancy in Turbo Depths that giving up a turn to prevent Bog just results in dying to Marit Lage.

    I think it's best to simply DDD and cycle Street Wraith so that you preserve your ability to discard to hand size. If you move in too early on Phantasmagorian, they can permanently shut the door on you with Bog.

    Creeping Chill is a strong card in the matchup. It usually buys you another turn, which usually leads to a Narcomoeba, giving you another turn, which can result in a lethal Dread Return. If you play Contagion or Sickening Shoal in your sideboard, those cards can shrink Marit Lage enough to buy you another turn. Likewise, if you run enough green cards, Nourishing Shoal, while much worse, could do the same. For those with a heavy-blue list, there's probably the best answer in Snapback. I really like Snapback, but lists seem to be skewing green these days for Force of Vigor.

    Now for some really wacky and narrow options ... Ornithopter: It blocks and they can't even Sejiri Steppe through it. Dark Sphere is obviously way out there, but the art is badass. I enjoy unexpected angles and experimental sideboards, so if I was playing at a local with this deck and expected to run into a lot of Turbo Depths, I might be tempted to play an assortment of lands: Karakas, Maze of Ith, Ghost Quarter. The main way Turbo Depths interacts with troublesome lands is via Pithing Needle, and Depths players will probably name Phantasmagorian. If you lose the die roll and they don't know what deck you're playing, they may just name Wasteland with a Needle on Turn 1.

  11. #1271
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    I think autumn version is more interesting than effective, specially post side. However 5-0 is pretty nice.
    that name has come up with manaless for quite some time. probably flawless execution of the deck.
    -rob

  12. #1272
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    Hi everyone, I'm pretty new to the manaless version of dredge and I was hoping a more advanced pilot could please give some insight on how to mulligan properly, especially in the face of a known leyline of the void with Force of Vigor in mind.

    Thank you!
    Hi, Manroe. I noticed you didn't get any replies. Can you clarify your question? Are you asking what to board in and out?

    If that's not your question, I'll try to speak generally about the scenario: Your deck loses to Leyline, so you're really playing your opponent. If your opponent knows you lose to Leyline, he or she will mulligan to it. Thus, you should assume it will be there and mulligan aggressively to Force of Vigor, since that's your best hope. Alternatively, you can keep your seven and just hope to draw Force of Vigor in the first two turns. If your opponent is newer to Legacy, then you can keep your seven and take the gamble. Most decks that play Leyline can't hardcast them, so if you don't see it Turn Zero, you're in the clear.

    At this point, because of the state of Modern right now, I don't think the latter situation is probable anymore. Also, with the London mulligan, it's less punishing to mulligan deep for a hate card. Mulligans are obviously awful for Manaless Dredge, so that puts the deck at a sizeable disadvantage. Still, there's an actual good answer to Leyline now compared to the tortured sideboard plans people resorted to before in order to not just scoop to Leyline.

  13. #1273

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    @ESG Those are awesome ideas, thanks a lot. I actually already have Sickening Shoal in my sideboard and totally hadn't thought of boarding it in to buy myself another turn. I'm gonna try that, probably boarding out some combination of Phantasmagorian and Cabal Therapy.

  14. #1274

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Thinking about this list. I'm not wild about leylines. Debating whether or not to include Serum Powders. What are folks opinions? I'm not as keen on Lotleth without running Progentitus, may swap it back for a Flayer. Not totally set on the SB, I do enjoy the 4th Hogaak turned into a Gigapede. Opinions?

    4 Phantasmagorian
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Shambling Shell
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Ichorid
    4 Nether Shadow
    4 Prized Amalgam
    3 Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
    3 Balustrade Spy
    1 Lotleth Giant
    1 Gigapede
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Dread Return

    SB
    4 Faerie Macabre
    4 Force of Vigor
    4 Contagion
    3 Sickening Shoal

  15. #1275

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Ok, bump with a sb opinion follow-up question. (I miss the former activity around this place, nostalgia, i member.)

    4 Faerie Macabre
    4 Force of Vigor
    3 Sickening Shoal
    1 Gigapede
    3 ? (Chancellor/Chill/Rider/Serum/Contagion)

    What's the most value catch-all card to go in there? Thinking Rider or Chancellor, as I expect storm and S'n'T to be present in the local meta. The extra Gigapede follows Force into the deck, and it comes in against lands especially, or other non RiP/LotV decks.

  16. #1276
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    @ahg113: Ashen Rider does more against Show and Tell than Chancellor of the Annex does against Storm, so I'd go with that. I also prefer Mindbreak Trap over Chancellor in a metagame with more Storm. Yeah, Chancellor has wider applicability, but it's easy to play through from the opposing side. From the Storm side, they have to guess whether or not you are bringing in Leyline of Sanctity, so they'll probably hedge and bring in some bounce spells, usually shaving some discard spells, which gives your hidden information higher value.

    I think Serum Powder is defensible if you're playing in a room full of Leylines, but I don't care for it otherwise. Frankly, I wouldn't play this deck in a hostile field. This deck is best when people's graveyard hate is one-time and targeted rather than global and persistent. Up the page a bit, Scott reported liking Serum Powder in his build. If you play Serum Powder, it will help you find specific answers in postboard games, but it effectively shrinks your sideboard slots to 11 or 12, so weigh the pros and cons.

  17. #1277
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    @esg I don't like Ashen in the show and tell matchup they tend to board out all of their shows in post board games because it is generally better for us than them.

  18. #1278

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Hey all,

    First off, I did end up going with Ashen Rider instead of Chancellor, for the reasons given. I also made a few other mods decklist below. I took this for a spin at a Legacy event in Philly, part of a series. Out of 18 people (small crowd), I came in 9th. C'est la vie.

    4 Phantasmagorian
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Shambling Shell
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Ichorid
    3 Nether Shadow
    4 Prized Amalgam
    3 Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
    3 Balustrade Spy
    1 Gigapede
    1 Flayer of the Hatebound
    1 Lotleth Giant
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Dread Return

    4 Faerie Macabre
    1 Gigapede
    3 Ashen Rider
    4 Force of Vigor
    3 Sickening Shoal

    Didn't run into any S'n'T (nor storm), so the Riders weren't needed. Neither were the Faerie's as there wasn't any gy shenanigans. I always boarded in the FoV (used once), and often the Shoals. I may switch to a three Contagion, lots of dudes in the paper scene. Siding out was often a: Spy, D.Return, Phanta, Lotleth/Flayer, as the first four to bring in FoV. Then if bringing in the Shoals, a Shadow, 2nd Phanta, 2nd Dread Return. The 2nd Gigapede didn't come in all that often, but I'd drop another Phanta if doing so.

    8/4/2019 - Red Cap's Legacy

    Rd 1 (0-0-1) Galen - Humans
    G1, I win the roll, choose to play, opponent none the wiser (he's inexperienced against the deck.) This game took forever, I think there was 20 minutes left in the round at the conclusion. We had a stalemate of sorts, staring contest. He had a Thalia in play that slowed me down, because I'm staring at the combo in my GY, but don't have that pesky 1 mana to cast anything. He does crack in with his team, hopped up on +1/+1 counters for 8 with a Thalia, Noble H., Captain, and tokens. I crack him with a Hogaak and narco down to 11, Hogaak down to 3 (then lots and lots of staring), a narco down to 2. He gets impatient and decides to attack with his Thalia. That's an easy decision to block. My turn, cast my dread return, flip deck, win.

    G2, he chooses to play, goorvy. I mull to 6 looking for a FoV or Shoal. I get two Shoals in my new 6. He gets a fast start, and I pitch a GGT, which he surgicals. This is a play error on my part as I didn't have a wraith, and I did have a Gigapede. There was no need to expose my dredger at that point. It still could've gotten goinked in my upkeep, but learning lesson. While losing GGT isn't crippling, it just took too long to DDD because of the mulligan as well. Got over ran, it felt like playing Sligh.

    G3, I chose to draw. This game went into turns. He surgicaled Hogaak, and started to beat down with Champion, he casted a Pontiff that did some work. Had it kept playing out, he may have been ahead, but the game ends in a draw.

    Rd 2 (0-1-1) Charles - Elves
    G1, I won the roll, chose to draw. Yep, sometimes you just get got. He activates a Scooze early in the game, eats 5 dudes in one turn, I think I dredged twice, and I quickly concede (I'm at 11, he's at 25, has all of the mana).

    G2, chose to draw. I boarded in Shoal, and I did get to kill a Scooze, which was nice, and I had already discarded a dredger before hand. But then I die to a hoof and dude. Technically, that gets me down to 6, then a hoof attack takes me to 1, and there was no hail mary combo win. The big plays were him making me discard with thoughtseize (Hogaak), and a surgical on Cabal Therapy. Had the Therapy not been taken, with some bridges in my yard, i could've started my game plan in earnest, but I was stopped cold. Well timed in deed.

    Rd 3 (1-1-1) G - 12-Post

    G1, I win the roll, chose to draw. This is just a bad match-up for 12-post. I win on my third turn through a fast dude beat down. He does take 4 from Sylvan Library. I D.R. a Flayer on t3, he gets to 4 life and concedes as he's dead on board.

    G2, he chooses to draw. I draw my seven without looking at them and pass turn. It's akin to not looking at your cards in poker and raising pre-flop. Why did I do this, because G is one of my good friends and we're going to see Hobbs & Shaw after magic. I just run him over with so many dudes. I accelerate the game by using a wraith in response to him attempting to surgical a dredger. At least three ickys, a shadow, and narco, plus some number of bridges making tokens. Game over man.

    Rd 4 (1-1-2) Chris - Dark Maverick

    G1 I lost the roll, he decides to play. I wraith early, and he gets a Scooze at some point, eats three things- thug, shell*2. I have a gigapede that he does not eat, and use that to pitch a GGT. He takes some minor damage from canopy, a narco hit. On my turn 4 (I think, maybe 5) I combo out and flip the deck.

    G2 He chooses to play, he mulliganed. I open a decent'ish hand for a post sb - Fov, Shoal, Hogaak, dread, Prized *3. Well, that'd be nice if there wasn't a t2 Thalia. He also gets a Thalia, Heretic out in play. I made a huge play error here. He had Knights of the Reliquary out and I started playing scared of a Bog play. Looking back on it, I doubt he had a bog. I could've kept returning icky's to self sacrifice to get bridge triggers. I had a D.R. in the yard and should've just went for it. Instead, I had a bad attack that allowed him to sacrifice a Birds of Paradise for the high benefit of exiling the last of my bridges. Thalia, Heretic did some work slowing down my attacks. He also had a Mom and a Scryb Sprite which made attacking, and blocking, difficult. I played it wrong.

    G3 I chose to draw. He gets a few attacks in birds and knight with a Noble trigger. I attack a few times with a narco. The game goes to turns, and even though I build up an army, there isn't enough time. The game ends in a draw.


    I probably lose Rd 1, and win Rd 4, if the games continue instead of stopping in turns.

    Rd 5 (2-1-2) Nathan - Pox

    At this point, just playing because I paid for the time and I don't get a chance to sling paper often. My opponent knows what I'm playing and while I have no chance of top 8, he has the smallest of possibilities if he wins. He wins the die roll and proceeds to put me on the play, smart man.

    G1, I play, he mulls to 6. He t0 casts a thoughtseize and grabs a Wraith. Not much else is done and I combo out t3 or t4.

    G2, I draw, he mulls to 5, He keeps his hand, but isn't paying attention, he doesn't pre-game play his leyline, it puts him on tilt a tad, but it doesn't matter. He hard casts it t1, I already discard a card, but it's not a dredger, and I wouldn't dredge anyway. I'm drawing for a FoV, don't find it, lose to an Angler and Ghast.

    G3, I draw. He has Leyline again, plays it pre-game. His turn 0 he casts Thoughtseize, I tank for a second, and then realize I'm holding a FoV. So while I short change myself (down to 4 cards), I get his hate piece and slowly get back into the game. After I start dredging I get in some small beats with a narco, couple shadows, icky. He has both Lili's in play, so I'm attacking those as well as him before any nonsense can occur. Either he concedes, or I combo out, forgot to finish note taking. Cool guy, but I'm definitely the wrong deck for Pox to shine against.


    It was a good day. Finish just out of getting my entry fee back in store credit. I expected to see a lot more counterspells/delvers, or just blue flavored decks in general. I really enjoyed the singleton Gigapede in the deck, it's the 4th Hogaak. Unsure about how much a 2nd is needed in the SB. However, I did not play as much against Crop Rotation/Bog as expected, what the 2nd was in there for.

  19. #1279
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    @ahg113 Doesn't the Gigapede just make things so cozy.
    I saw you talking about Faerie Macabre, and I was like, that actually takes care of a lot that LotV takes care of, without Time Walking me and without being a permanent to be destroyed, so I played this same list in my last MTGO League, with 4 Macabre in place of 4 LotV. Ended up going 4-1. I don't think the Faeries did anything differently than LotV in this League specifically, but I think I prefer it going forward in general. Maybe you'll try out the Powders and you'll like it so the favor is returned. The Powders won me two games.

    BTW, you party poopers selling MTGO treasure chests are missing out by not spinning the wheel Of my 5 treasure chests for the finish, 1 of them had a $30 Surgical Extraction, and another had 125 play points, along with other stuff.

    1-2 vs. Yawgmoth Nic Fit

    Game 1 loss: The game was about to be put out of reach with a Phantasmagorian-assisted graveyard full of Shadows and such, after a Therapy showing no impediments, and an opponent's board with just two lands, when a top decked game 1 Bojuka Bog turned the tables.

    Game 2 win: I Serum Powder a hand without FoV and the replacement opening 7 has one. LotV meets FoV. Opponent attacks with two Explorers while I rebuild and he eventually deeds his own Explorers to get rid of my Bridges, with Ichorids and Amalgams threatening. He doesn't draw much else and my creatures keep recurring until I combo out with Spy.

    Game 3 loss: LotV again, which meets FoV again. I have a spare FoV. Graveyard fills up but it meets a Bog. I'm still at maximum hand size though, and eventually I recur a number of creatures, and even Sickening Shoal a Tireless Tracker to buy time, but a Titania, Protector of Argoth and Yawgmoth are too much.

    2-1 vs. 4-Color Control

    Game 1 win: W&6 ultimates and there are a lot of cantrips, removal, and Snapcaster shenanigans, but recurring creatures and Hogaak are too much.

    Game 2 loss: Probably a misplay as I respond to a turn 2 Thoughtseize with a Street Wraith to protect the Wraith, and my discarded Imp meets a Surgical. [Edit: I'm actually not sure. He still would have had the option to Surgical my Imp if I had activated Wraith because he could have discarded Wraith and then cast Surgical on Imp. But he may have still taken FoV, intending to Surgical it, and letting me have my dredgers. I don't know if he had two Surgicals from the start. I'd have to think about that.] The Thoughtseize takes my FoV which is also Surgically Extracted after a Brainstorm, so I know he's either leaning on a hardcast LotV or an Ensnaring Bridge. With W&6 on the board, he casts Ensnaring Bridge. I think what happened is that I had boarded out my combo kill, my FoVs had been Extracted, and time was a bit too short to try to get under the Bridge, so I conceded.

    Game 3 win: Combo comes back in, and I also have FoV in my opening 7. Bridges get Extracted, Jace hits the board, a Thoughtseize takes my FoV, and then Ensnaring Bridge lands. I get him down to 7, and then he gets his hand below 3 cards so only my one Shadow can attack. He chooses to Brainstorm with Jace rather than return Shadow to my hand. I dredge into a Flayer, tap Shadow and Ichorid to cast a Hogaak, and Dread Return the Flayer, which makes it game.

    2-0 vs Blue Artifact

    Game 1 win: Karn, Scion of Urza makes tokens, Engineered Explosives on 0 hits the battlefield, and Trinket Mage gets a Crypt, leaving me with an empty GY but a Narcomoeba, 2 Amalgams, and a full hand. I draw into a Wraith, cycle a GGT before blocks into 3 Bridges, block a Construct token, and have tokens and more creatures in the GY. I dredge again, and with only Trinket Mage as a blocker, and lethal or close to lethal presented, the opponent concedes.

    Game 2 win: I discard a GGT, which meets a Crypt. I draw a FoV, and discard Golgari Thug with a Wraith in Hand. Opponent casts Karn, the Great Creator and grabs Ensnaring Bridge. My cycled dredge includes 2 Amalgams and a Flayer. Draw step dredge includes Bridge, Dread Return, and Narcomoeba. On his turn, he casts grabs Defense Grid to stop FoV, casts Ensnaring Bridge, and casts a 0/0 Ballista to get rid of my Bridges. On my turn, I Dread Return Flayer, and it deals lethal to my opponent with itself and the returning Amalgams.

    2-0 vs. B/R Reanimator

    Game 1 win: Concession from opponent when they Faithless Looting a Griselbrand but don't have anything going on, and I have an opening hand with 2 Street Wraiths and Imp as my first dredger.

    Game 2 win: My opening 7 has no Faerie Macabres but does have Serum Powder. I Powder into a new opening 7 with 2 Macabres. At the end of my first turn, my opponent Entombs a Griselbrand. On his turn, he tries to Reanimate it, it gets exile by one of my Macabres, and he concedes.

    2-1 vs. D&T with Squadron Hawk

    Game 1 win: A pretty quick hand with Phantasmagorian overruns the opponent before he gets much going.

    Game 2 loss: I Powder away an average hand without anti-hate, and keep a new hand with GGT and Wraith but still no anti-hate. Giver of Runes then Thalia land. My Wraith and draw step dredges are good, and I make the (wrong?) decision to attack with two Narcomoebas and a Prized Amalgam into a Giver of Runes and Thalia, to put the pressure on, knowing he might sacrifice his Thalia to exile my Bridges, my thinking being that I have two Gigapedes in my graveyard, which can trade for a Dread Return and a GGT in my hand, hopefully for a combo kill in a turn or two, or just continue to swarm with Thalia gone. He blocks, exiles my bridges, and casts a 2nd Thalia on his next turn. Welp. After, he Surgically Extracts Ichorid. I still have creatures coming, but a couple get Plowed/Path to Exiled, and then he lands Containment Priest and a playset of Squadron Hawks. I concede.

    Game 3 win: I make a mistake at the beginning but I end up winning anyway. After drawing, my opening 8 is GGT, Wraith, FoV, Gigapede, Amalgam, Dread Return, Shambling Shell, and Shadow. He played a Vial off a Rishadan Port, and as he seems to be on the Priest/Surgical plan more than the RiP plan, I'm eyeing it to see if he's relying on Vial. I discard Gigapede thinking I'm saving the Wraith for a possible Surgical response anyway. That would be fine if there wasn't the possibility of using FoV on his turn, as I wouldn't be able to respond to a possible Surgical on Gigapede with a dredge, and I'd have a shrunken hand with no graveyard and missing a possible gotcha moment on Surgical. At the end of his turn, he still has no white source and hasn't played any other spells so I FoV the vial, and then in response to my Gigapede trigger, he Surgicals it. A turn later, he flashes in Containment Priest. He doesn't have a ton more going on, and my hand is good if I can get rid of the Priest, and I draw into Sickening Shoal a couple turns later. I kill Priest with Shoal and he casts Thalia. I Phantasmagorian dump recurring creatures and dredgers and get some more with a GGT dredge. He puts up a fight with blocking tricks with Karakas and multiple Thalias, removal, and even a Force of Virtue, but I have too many recurring creatures and Bridges.
    Last edited by Scott; 08-07-2019 at 02:15 PM.

  20. #1280

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by ahg113 View Post
    Ok, bump with a sb opinion follow-up question. (I miss the former activity around this place, nostalgia, i member.)

    4 Faerie Macabre
    4 Force of Vigor
    3 Sickening Shoal
    1 Gigapede
    3 ? (Chancellor/Chill/Rider/Serum/Contagion)

    What's the most value catch-all card to go in there? Thinking Rider or Chancellor, as I expect storm and S'n'T to be present in the local meta. The extra Gigapede follows Force into the deck, and it comes in against lands especially, or other non RiP/LotV decks.
    I am still sold on fow list. Maybe blue trap because there still are some Storm decks. Mine's looks like:

    4 fow
    4 vigor
    4 contagio
    3 macabre

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