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Thread: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

  1. #1141
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    I had some decent results with led out of the sb a while ago (probe was legal and didn't run unmask)

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post949601

    I really liked pairing led with faithless after sb. Led out of sb is pretty legit for manaless, especially with all of the thoughtseize now. It does probably make sense to play leyline(s) now.
    I have done that before myself and it was cute but I ultimately decided that it took up to many sb slots and to just play other things instead. It is always fun to jam and get them

  2. #1142
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    A new addition for the blue lists.


  3. #1143
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I'm guessing that's the Force of Negation?

    Should be good enough, if the deck can support it. Won't stop Surgical, but will stop everything that stops us dead in our tracks. More Forces means better consistency
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  4. #1144
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    I'm guessing that's the Force of Negation?

    Should be good enough, if the deck can support it. Won't stop Surgical, but will stop everything that stops us dead in our tracks. More Forces means better consistency
    Doesn't stop Ooze or Priest but should still replace Disrupting Shoal in the SB.

    Also, I guess that means Whirlpool Rider can come out for Whirlpool Drake or whatever.

    Sucked to lose Probe, but I think it was made up to us with Creeping Chill, Prized Amalgam, Force of Negation, and even that Sphinx
    Last edited by Scott; 05-20-2019 at 03:45 AM.

  5. #1145

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    How do we feel about Force of Vigor?

    2GG
    Instant
    If itís not your turn, you may exile a green card from your hand instead of paying this cardís mana cost.
    Destroy up to two target artifacts or enchantments.

    I think itís a card we want, though it still has the FoW problem of timewalking us for several turns when we have to use it.

  6. #1146
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Isn't this exactly what the deck needed to fight Leyline of the Void? I think it's safe to say this should be a 4-of in every Manaless sideboard.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  7. #1147

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    The only notable potential downside I see is having to up the number of green cards to use it consistently. Perhaps add Arbors and Natureís Claims to the board as well, or is that too excessive?

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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by crowe_1 View Post
    The only notable potential downside I see is having to up the number of green cards to use it consistently. Perhaps add Arbors and Natureís Claims to the board as well, or is that too excessive?
    Hmm, yeah, kind of a conundrum. I really want to play this card, but I've never been a fan of the Arbor/Nature's Claim package as odds are low of having both in your hand. The only other green manaless card I can think of right now--besides the current 12 of Grave-Troll, Shambling Shell, and the new card out of the board--is old school Gigapede, and I'm also not a fan of diluting the deck with subpar cards. Don't make me think about Greater Mossdog.

  9. #1149
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by crowe_1 View Post
    The only notable potential downside I see is having to up the number of green cards to use it consistently. Perhaps add Arbors and Natureís Claims to the board as well, or is that too excessive?
    A full set of Shambling Shell at a minimum is needed alongside the GGT's. Golgari Brownscale is a pretty weak dredger, so that one is pretty much out. Greater Mossdog is really all that's left. If we use traditional Force of Will math we would need a minimum of 16 green cards (including Force of Vigor) to pull it off. Gigapede might have potential, and it isn't a terrible Dread Return target.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  10. #1150

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    One positive about Arbor/Vigor/Claim is that two of them in any combination work together. But I think thatís a lot of slots to take up in the board. Arbor could also be Elvish Spirit Guide.

  11. #1151
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I do prefer Force of Vigor over the Arbor/Claim plan. Being able to potentially destroy 2 things is also pretty damn cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  12. #1152
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    what a insane card. ripping through multiple leylines or killing cage for 0 mana.
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  13. #1153
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Maybe we could add Noxious Revival to our SB to up the green cards count?

    Also, with the non-blue Echelon version, we have one Progenitus, which is also green.

    I really like Force of Vigor. Double-timewalking ourselves might be an issue, but again, the opponent might have mulligan aggressively to find LotV/Cage.
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  14. #1154
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Do you guys have any other suggestions for green cards? besides the 4 shells main...
    Eldrazi stompy list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/noloam

    sideboard guide can be found on page 84

  15. #1155

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Do any of you guys actually run some statistics on how many green cards your actually want to have a decent chance for having & being able to cast it?

  16. #1156
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Noloam_ View Post
    Do you guys have any other suggestions for green cards? besides the 4 shells main...
    just play much alike the green shell that floated around a couple of years ago: dryad arbor, bloodghast; post side: 4 of these, 2 Gx fetches, 1 forest, 3 n. claim ...

    something like this:

    4 dryad arbor
    4 blooghast
    4 ichos
    4 narcos
    4 amalgams
    4 bridges
    4 therapies
    4 GGT
    4 Stimp
    4 thugs
    2 shells
    3 Wrider
    1 Flayer
    4 Dreturn
    4 SWraith
    4 phantasmagorian
    2 fow

    SB
    4 force of vigor
    2 fetch Gx
    1 forest
    3 n. claim (or reverent silence)
    2 fow
    3 U shoal (or 2 U shoals + 1 ashen rider)

    it should work. post SB you have 17 green cards and 17-18 blue cards
    CONS:
    - no creeping chills which are pretty good in grindy MU
    - no MBtrap nor Wchancellor both good against storm
    - no gravehate (faeries, surgicals or Bleylines)
    - no creature removals (pharaoh, contagion or Bshoal)

    but if you don't want to play the blue package you can always switch with one of the other one (creature hate, gy hate, storm hate) and subs the MD fows with Wchancellors or creeping chills.

    just my 2 cents

  17. #1157
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Daize View Post
    Do any of you guys actually run some statistics on how many green cards your actually want to have a decent chance for having & being able to cast it?
    16 cards is the magic minimum number

  18. #1158
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Daize View Post
    Do any of you guys actually run some statistics on how many green cards your actually want to have a decent chance for having & being able to cast it?
    16, b/c FoW math.

    Edit: hellhound beat me to it
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  19. #1159

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Noloam_ View Post
    Do you guys have any other suggestions for green cards? besides the 4 shells main...
    Gigapede, Greater Mossdog, Dryad Arbour or Basking Rootwalla (not strictly worse than Dryad Arbour because of Spy lists) are the stand out creatures, but Slitherhead is growing on me for being a B/G creature to feed Ichorid and Force of Vigor while adding relevant damage.

  20. #1160
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Gigapede, Greater Mossdog, Dryad Arbour or Basking Rootwalla (not strictly worse than Dryad Arbour because of Spy lists) are the stand out creatures, but Slitherhead is growing on me for being a B/G creature to feed Ichorid and Force of Vigor while adding relevant damage.
    slitterhead sounds fun :). I do think gigapede is also a serious option. cant somebody come up with a serious list with force of vigor?
    Eldrazi stompy list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/noloam

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