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Thread: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

  1. #1261
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Hi everyone, I'm pretty new to the manaless version of dredge and I was hoping a more advanced pilot could please give some insight on how to mulligan properly, especially in the face of a known leyline of the void with Force of Vigor in mind.

    Thank you!
    Once you go Legacy...

  2. #1262
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    Scott, what matches did you bring in Serum Powder for, and how did it work out? How about the second Gigapede?
    It hasn't come up much in my first week on MTGO, but I've liked it in paper. It comes in against anything that features a near auto-loss for Manaless, in this deck that 95% of the time doesn't want to mulligan. e.g. Powder + Force of Vigor against LotV/RiP/Cage, Powder + Shoal/Contagion vs. Priest/Ooze, Powder + LotV vs. graveyard combo. Manaless is unique in both truly requiring sideboard answers and being allergic to mulligans to find them.

    With the opponents wielding the London Mulligan for graveyard hate, the odds of drawing a 4-of aren't high enough for me. It's also nice with LotV on MTGO with B/R Reanimator everywhere, and presumably the equally rampant Bomberman, but I don't have a ton of games against it to know the impact. It's not like the other plans of Karn and Mentor are as scary to us. Although in that match up there's a sideboard balancing act because they probably bring in Priest so you want Shoals/Contagion, but still want the combo kill cards because of Bridge via Karn. But the match up topic is another discussion. Like most combo, it's tough, but I'll see how I fare with LotV. Some metas will want different combo hate cards.

    I haven't run numbers, but you're quite likely to get your required answer with 3-4 answers and 3-4 powders. In paper I've routinely had "mulligans" like: Opening 7 with Powder and no Force of Vigor -> New opening 7 with Powder and no Force -> New opening 7 with Force

    It consolidates the sideboard. It's not quite the same because it's only good on your opening hand and you can't draw into it, but it's like having 7 LotV, 7 FoV and 6 Sickening Shoals.

    Another route is to go and , so that you have multiple cards to answer RiP and Cage. I tried to make that work, and it has some nice things, like FoW answering everything but LotV and stopping RiP before its EtB effect, but I'm not big on it for a few reasons. There's the aforementioned space issue; you're probably low on Contagion effects or combo hate. And, again, post-London Mulligan, you only have four shots at a LotV answer in FoV. The blue route game me headaches in two other ways.

    The main reason is sideboarding. You're bringing in a half dozen cards but can't board out the combo package because you need Whirlpool creatures for the blue count, so you end up watering down business and often sputtering. Of course, even with a list like mine, sometimes it's better to keep the combo in if you're sideboarding. You may need speed, or you may not need Cabal Therapy because there are no counter spells or there's Chalice, or you can take out some Shambling Shells because you're not boarding in Force of Vigor and Shambling Shell consistency is worth less than your sideboard cards, etc.

    Secondly, with Hogaak we're now even more incentivized to dump our hand with Phantasmagorian, and it doesn't always come up, but it creates complications with Whirlpool reanimation, and same as before, can slow you down with fewer recurring creatures, Bridges, Therapies, etc.

    Gigapede always helps smooth things out, especially with Phantasmagorian. It's another green card for FoV, and especially shines in post board games when it frees you up to shrink your hand size with pitch cards, and still be able to get back a dredger from your hand. The main deck Gigapede is basically the best of mediocre options. Ideally, I think the deck wants another card that gets things going, like a 5th Ichorid, but there is none. I don't like early counter-able cards and I like cards that work from the graveyard; Gigapede fits the bill, and can often discard an Ichorid or Nether Shadow stuck in hand in the early game to get things going, triggering Prized Amalgam or getting you Bridge tokens. So it comes in when you bring in FoV, or when you bring in Shoal and have room. I've liked it.

    My thoughts are still evolving so this isn't set in stone, and there are other routes to explore.

  3. #1263

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Great write-up! Thanks!

  4. #1264
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    Great write-up! Thanks!
    Anytime! Oh, also, I forgot to mention another time you bring Gigapede in: against Tormod's Crypt and Nihil Spellbomb, so you can discard more than one card in a turn, while maintaining maximum hand size and get right back to discarding and dredging after they pop it.

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