Progenitus or colossus. Way better since they have a replacement effect and not a trigger that can be answered
Prog is most likely the best choice out of all; it can be pitched for Force of Will. Also, in the acute case that Prog is in play, it cannot be stped or wipe awayed.
I went with Progenitus as well. Mostly b/c I happened to have one. But yeah, it can also be pitched to FoW/Unmask/Contagion/whatever.
I agree with this ^^^^, however I usually went with Worldspine Wurm cos my Progs disappeared a while back, and cos it's cheaper.Originally Posted by zzap
Show and Tell would be the only way I would land it, and since Emrakul would make us sac our reanimated beat-stick more often than not, I like the idea that Wurm turns on Dread Return the next time we get to play sorcery-speed stuff.
That said, this line of play has never once actually happened for me yet (that I can remember anyway), but then I don't play Spy all that much unless I'm playing that silly Storm deck featuring Spy.
Besides, dropping Spy vs. Show & Tell is living the real dream, right.
"Oh no, my poor library". Next turn, combo out. "Nice Emrakul you got there".
opinion on this list?
THICKWICK (3-0)
LEGACY PREMIER #8762323 ON 09/13/2015
4 Bloodghast
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nether Shadow
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
3 Whirlpool Rider
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dread Return
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Force of Will
4 Bridge from Below
2 Dakmor Salvage
Sideboard
1 Force of Will
1 Blazing Archon
2 Contagion
2 Darkblast
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria 1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
A little light on the dredgers/Salvages but apart from that, it's close to what I play (I skipped on the blue package).
I'd say that's about as tight a list as it gets. Though, as long as there are no Disrupting Shoals in the 75, one might just as well run Whirlpool Drake instead of Rider (since you don't need CMC 2 blue cards, all you care about is that they're blue). The extra trigger can matter greatly and makes comboing out a lot easier.
Ha ha, nice one.Besides, dropping Spy vs. Show & Tell is living the real dream, right
"Oh no, my poor library". Next turn, combo out. "Nice Emrakul you got there".
So question. I took blue manaless to the local last night and ran into belcher round three. How would you sideboard against this deck with the list below? I really struggle with a sideboard plan before and after I got dump trucked.
List
4x Bridge from Below
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Chancellor of the Annex
4x Dread Return
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
4x Narcomoeba
4x Nether Shadow
4x Phantasmagorian
3x Shambling Shell
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Street Wraith
3x Balustrade Spy
1x Flayer of the Hatebound
1x Progentius
Sideboard
4x Force of Will
4x Disrupting Shoal
3x Faerie macabre
3x Whirlpool Rider
1x Ashen Rider
Out:
3 Balustrade Spy
4 Street Wraith
2 Phantasmagorian
1 Nether Shadow
1 Shambling Shell
In:
3 Whirlpool Rider
4 Force of Will
4 Disrupting Shoal
Gives you the highest number of disruption and blue cards to pitch to FoW. I'm not sure if you'll be able to Shoal anything, but at least you can pitch it to FoW.
Ok, that’s pretty close to what I did, I wasn’t sure if I should side out the B.Spy pacakage or not because it allows for such a quick win. I did keep the Street Wraith’s in though because it did give me a little ability to dig for a FoW or Shoal. I am pretty new to the deck; Tuesday was the first day I played it ever so I find the sideboarding to be a little challenging with the deck. Thanks
I sideboarded the following:
Out:
3 Balustrade Spy
1 Progentius
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Nether Shadow
1 Shambling Shell
1 Dread Return
IN:
4 FoW
4 Shoal
3 Whirlpool Rider.
Shoal gets the following cards:
Land Grant
Desperate Ritual/Pyritic Ritual
Burning Wish
Some sideboard cards
Oh man don't ever board out your Flayer (unless for some reason you also board out all Dread Returns).
That's the single card that lets you close the game quickly.
Also, boarding out all 4 of your Nether Shadow leaves you with so few creatures to feed to Cabal Therapy (important card vs. combo) and Dread Return. You need your creatures man, they're your "lands".
^^ Yup.
Phants, Shell are usually the cards I trim numbers down first and foremost.
After that it depends on how many side cards I'm choosing to bring in and what opponent I'm facing.
When I play manaless blue (I admit I've been playing storm lately), I play 4 Rider, 4 Force in the main. My main blue count is 16.
I do this because whilst Spy is a better reanimation target, Rider and Force in the main gives us more room in the side.
Yeah I didn't realize that until last night when I was gold-fishing the deck. I felt like I needed to answer the board, but why bother when you can win game. The nether shadows make sense, and cutting Street Wraith why isn't ideal is probably the most easiest choice. I was thinking about cutting the Spy's and just run maindeck Whirlpool riders to open up some sideboard space
So... The DTT era was a nightmare for this deck. But with it gone, people'll have to go through a bit more trouble to find their Grafdigger's Cages/RiPs etc, comparable to the pre-Khans meta. Miracles is probably going to run rampant again, which is a pretty good MU for this deck. The uprising of Elves! might suck though.
Anyone planning to bring this badboy out again? I fear my own meta is too hostile to graveyard strategies for this to be a viable choice, but other metas might differ.
Yeah I stopped playing Grave-based decks for while, mainly trying to win a game to be honest!!! Given that DTT demanded everyone had hardcore graveyard answers, I'm glad it's gone.That said, I didn't really notice Miracles NOT dominating. They were running DTT aswell round me, so they've been their normal winning-self regardless. I don't really expect that to change...
I am looking forward to pulling out LED/Manaless dredge again. I might wait to see how the meta shapes up though, same reason as yourself.
RE: Elves, I like Firestorm in LED-dredge, but manaless doesn't really have anything that powerful. Contagion doesn't quite have the same balls, but for me it's an automatic sideboard inclusion to deal with DRS.
Just wish they'd print something new relevant to this deck...
I'd be curious to see how a Manaless variant does with Hangarback Walker, Endless One, Phyrexian Marauder and Shifting Wall.
(All in on Bridge, I know. But still that'd be kind of cool.)
Not well. They're only useful in your opening hand. And yes, they count for Nether Shadow, but that's pretty much all it does. It's not like if you need the numbers for Grave Troll.
How many can you realistically use beyond the original 8?
If you cut all the fat (including FoW/Chancellor) you can get the number up to 12 or so. Which means 19% chance of not having any in your opener, 38% chance to have exactly 1, 29% at exactly 2, 11% at exactly 3 and roughly 2,5% at 4 or more.
So generally speaking, you'd have 1 or 2 in your opening 7 when running 12.
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