I am joining a new playgroup this week and looking forward to running Manaless Dredge again. I might follow up with a general report, although I will probably hold off until I get back to playing a weekly tournament. Any tips? What do most players forget to do or not do after a long break from piloting Manaless Dredge?
DDD / Death & Taxes
For me, its mostly remember all of the shenanigans involving the stack, Phantasmagorian, and cyling Street Wraith. There's some stupidly busted stuff you can do if you can remember how to manage the stack properlyOriginally Posted by easysantiago
Triggers, triggers, triggers! Untap, UPKEEP (check triggers), draw step? Dredging -> Narco triggers? Stuff dies -> Bridge triggers?
When playing Manaless I just recite "Untap, upkeep, draw step?" as a sort of mantra so I don't miss anything.
It would be dependant on getting a Bridge into the grave quickly I would think. Not always that easy in a world with Extraction, DRS etc.
Hmm..
Have you had much luck with a Tallman build in the past Michael?
If my opponent would try to eat a Bridge from Below with his filthy little Shaman I would instantly call a Judge ;)
what are your guys thoughts on a transformational, but still keeping most dredge sb of
4 vamp hexmage
4 dark depths
4 urborg
3 thespian stage
(would also fit 2 dakmor salvage in maindeck)
-rob
This mantra works well!
DDD / Death & Taxes
I really like the idea of a transformational sideboard, but I have only done it by going from an all-in build to Blue Manaless. Win game 1, bring in the Blue package to deal with the hate in game 2.
DDD / Death & Taxes
Don't like it. How do you want to assemble the combo..? After your opening 7/8, you normally don't draw any cards. Any missing combo pieces will just be dredged into your graveyard. Even if you do manage to assemble the two lands, you'd have to have 3/4(!) lands in play total, 2 of which have to produce mana, to perform your plan. First off that just takes too friggin' long and second this deck doesn't produce all that much mana (surprisingly).
And when having to resort to Hexmage as a secondary way to get your token - why not DR combo out the regular way and forfeit the Depths combo? The token doesn't even kill your opponent on the spot unless you add stuff to your combo like Flamekin Zealot. Normally when you can safely cast DR you win on the spot, why change that to a "I'll kill you next turn" mode that doesn't work all that well with the decks natural plan?
You'd be better off doing this in LED Dredge where you can at least run Life from the Loam to get back any dredged combo pieces and even then it's still shaky at best.
Did no one play at GP SeaTac?? I want to see some reports, to know how hostil the enviroment is at least
Worry less about how "hostil" the meta is, play dredge and make them have the hate.
I already do that. But my comunity is quite small. I wanted to hear about the big Legacy tourney
I played vs Manaless Dredge in round 6 [both of us were out of the running for day 2 at that point]. The deck was piloted by a Jamal S. and he was against me on Reanimator. Then end result was 2-1 in my favor with game 1 and 3 concluding with entomb/reanimated elesh norn.
Game 1 he had 2x phantasmagorian in his opener [if memory serves], and showed proficiency in juggling them (not much I can do to threaten one, but good to see continued attention to detail after 6 hours. I would not have been able to interact meaningfully with a DRS were my deck to have had one).
Game 2 I mull to 5 or 4 looking to find lands; game starts and I can't find the reanimation spell for entombed elesh (good name by him with cabal therapy).
Game 3 I choose to go second, get elesh in yard. He draws and moves to discard phantasmagorian. I play land #2 and drop a Jace, Vryn's Prodidgy before he can cabal. He does some dredging and doesn't find too much to get zombies on the field. I entomb reanimation spell and flash it back. After the game he shows me his hand and has force/no blue card. Not sure exactly what sideboard he was on past the Chancellor/FoW.
I'm pretty sure there's a timeshifted match in the VODs from the GP where another manaless dredge player is featured. This guy had FoW, Chancellors, and Disrupting Shoalolololols (and it was awesome!). Pretty sure it was around the 1-0 to 4-0 matches from day 1
Could I see a list? I am actually interested in whether or not one should run FoW in the main as in the process of dredging it reveals to the opponent we have counterspells. Is it better to have the usual whirlpool riders, git probes in the main and side in the FoW to surprise the opponent?
Please do correct me if I'm wrong. The FoWs Maindeck are for storm and faster combo. What if the meta consists mainly of DnT, Lands and Delver decks? Could we afford to relegate the FoW to the sideboard for G2?
i think one way you can play FoW if you're worried about slowing the deck down too much is by playing some LED's in the deck. i've tried them before, and they aren't 100% amazing, but they have their moments.
ex: cycle street wraith and crack LED in response, dredge back stinkweed imp and then cast it. (there's not a lot of lines of play like that, but it will get you to discard your hand if you need to)
-rob
If you're down to this very narrow line of play then you're in a bad spot.
and there are many games where you have to force a card and then you're stuck without dredging for 2-3 turns. (or they resolve another hate card and you lose) just a suggestion!
-rob
Manaless gives you the short end of the stick in that regard. Neither of the choices are that great to deal with and it is a bit of an uphill battle at that point. If you're worried about turn one hate run Force and C.Annex. Helps improve your anti hate quite a bit.
You could do that, but be aware that a "good" (read: prepared) opponent will expect Force cause there is no reason to run whirlpool creatures when you arent't in blue.
I agree with Jester here. Even if they see it game one, it forces them to have hate AND a solution to deal with your counters all in one go. I really don't see a point behind hiding it unless your over all goal is a little more speed.
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