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Thread: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

  1. #881
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Congrats on the result & nice report!

    As for Spy killing you after a Show and Tell, one word...

    Progenitus

    I've been running one in my MD for several years now and love it
    Are you running Forces at all in that list? I'm thinking about cutting Probe for all of the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread, so my blue count is looking incredibly suspect. Dropping riders would be the nail in the coffin. Honestly, I only had one counter war all weekend and faced very little hate, so I'm unsure about the blue plan in general.

  2. #882
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Nope, no FoWs for me
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  3. #883

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by primeform View Post
    Need the probes for blue count to keep force of will main deck. Also probe is good against anything without counterspells so 0 seems excessive. Also having 3 of versus 4 of maindeck is 31.5 pct versus 40 pct to have it opening hand. I made the hard decision to go with 4 amalgams over 4 probe, but could see an argument the other way. Thanks for the replies about maindeck but for now Im looking for sideboard help based on the 60 I have chosen. I understand the merits of fearless and horde but decided to go with the blue version with 12 dredgers.
    I thought the fow might be an argument in keeping them, but between the amalgrams, narcos, and the riders, you were at 10 non-fow blue cards. I don't do math that well but that seemed like enough to keep the blue count high enough to make forces viable without the probes.

    And I wasn't trying to sway you to fearless or horde, was just trying to explain where I had experience (fearless/horde) and where I didn't (fow versions) so you knew how serious (or not) to take my response, haha.

  4. #884

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    I thought the fow might be an argument in keeping them, but between the amalgrams, narcos, and the riders, you were at 10 non-fow blue cards. I don't do math that well but that seemed like enough to keep the blue count high enough to make forces viable without the probes.

    And I wasn't trying to sway you to fearless or horde, was just trying to explain where I had experience (fearless/horde) and where I didn't (fow versions) so you knew how serious (or not) to take my response, haha.
    I appreciate your responses! I think alot of this thread is dedicated to discussing the advantages and disadvantages of the fearless/horde/blue versions and not enough about which cards are good in what matchups. I was just trying to direct the conversation to matchup and sideboard discussions that are useful for all 3 versions and specific sideboarding plans for people running force of wills in side or main. I know that everyone in this forum has great info to share from experiences with whatever form of the deck they are running. If we can bring all these ideas together, people will be more efficient with whichever version they decide on. I thought DTEs sideboard post from earlier in the thread was a great example of talk about what matchups each card are strong in and where we should be siding them out.

  5. #885

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    We play this deck because they can't interact with us on the stack, why would you make their counters relevant?
    Fire.
    DDD

  6. #886
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Hey guys, what actually list is?

  7. #887

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Kristopher Melby topped 16 the legacy classic this weekend !!
    congrats

    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=119987

  8. #888
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick752 View Post
    Hey guys, what actually list is?
    Well, here's my Spy list for example. The Progenitus isn't necessarily a popular choice, but I really like it.

    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Thug
    3 Shambling Shell

    4 Ichorid
    4 Prized Amalgam
    4 Nether Shadow
    4 Narcomoeba

    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    3 Balustrade Spy
    1 Flayer of the Hatebound
    1 Progenitus

    4 Phantasmagorian
    4 Street Wraith

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Dread Return
    4 Bridge from Below

    SB:
    3 Vengeful Pharaoh
    4 Contagion
    4 Unmask
    4 Mindbreak Trap

    @P-E: That SB must be the funniest one ever. It's pretty much does exactly nothing. If you're able to resolve a DR, you should be able to take the game then and there. Not durdle along.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  9. #889

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    that side is horrible but maybe he went yolo
    i should have put 15 relentless rats or something like that in this case haha

  10. #890
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by P-E View Post
    that side is horrible but maybe he went yolo
    i should have put 15 relentless rats or something like that in this case haha
    Right but he has the FOW package for hate and a bunch of fun of DR targets for the other matchups. I would love to know what he was bringing if for different matchups.

  11. #891
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    All vanillas. Squires and whatnot
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  12. #892

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Grand arbiter pitches on Fow ^^

  13. #893

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I've been seeing decks with Progenitus and other big creatures with the shuffle effect going around. I can understand for show and tell match ups but other then that is there any other reason to have those creatures in the main board?

  14. #894

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyWuppy View Post
    I've been seeing decks with Progenitus and other big creatures with the shuffle effect going around. I can understand for show and tell match ups but other then that is there any other reason to have those creatures in the main board?
    You win if Reanimator uses Reanimate on your Balustrade Spy targeting you with it's ability. Otherwise you'd deck yourself and die.

  15. #895
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Also, just DR'ing Balustrade Spy then says "I win next turn", since you'll be able to swing w/ 4 Ichorids, 4 Prized Amalgams and 4 Nether Shadows and probably a Narcomoeba or 2 for at least 30 or so damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  16. #896
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Hi,


    Please excuse me if I make some mistake in English, Iím French, it's my first post on The source and ití s not always easy to translateÖ

    I will present you my version of dredge manaless, with some choices witch are not common. I would like first to thank all of you : I decided to play this deck because of this great primer 3 years ago, and the discussion help to increase our level . I precise I tried quite all existing versions to arrive at this one (balustrade spy, whirlpool rider, shifting wall, black/blue/green reserve, force of will main deck or not Ö. ).


    The list :

    14 dredge :
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    2 Shambling Shell

    8 draw :
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Gitaxian Probe

    16 free creatures+4 bridge:
    4 Ichorid
    4 Nether Shadow
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Prized amalgam
    4 Bridge from Below

    9 usefull creatures :
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Phantasmagorian
    1 Flayer of the Hatebound

    7 graveyard spell :
    3 Dread Return
    4 Cabal Therapy

    2 hand free spell :
    2 Contagion


    SB: 1 Sickening Shoal
    SB: 2 Contagion
    SB: 4 Snapback
    SB: 4 Force of Will
    SB: 4 faerie macabre




    No balustrade spy or whirlpool rider:

    When we play dread return, this mean we have already 3 creatures on board. Most of time, we have done 1 cabal therapy, or we have at least 1 bridge from below in the graveyard. What I want to explain is balustrade spy or whirlpool rider are finally orverkill, and make a dread return on chancellor of the annex is enough to win. It s a too big creature for most of the removals, has flying and a condition against storm deck. If you are disagree, please just check before a dread return how the board is, and if it is not too big for your opponent. This allow us to have 3 free slot in the main deck. I remove also the 4th dread return to include a playset of Prized amalgam to increase a constant pressure on opponent.
    Finally the spy version is more a combo deck with a 2nd plan aggro, and this version is an aggro deck with a second plan combo.



    2 contagion main deck :

    The ďonly oneĒ problem we have 1st game is deathrite shaman. The 2 contagion help us against it and give us 2 free slot in the reserve for the other decks.



    The reserve:

    2 contagion + 1 sickening shoal : I enter them always against deathrite shaman decks.
    4 snapback : they are good against dark depths and infection
    4 force of will : against storm and deck with rest in peace.
    4 faerie macabre: against reanimator, dredge, and lands/loam.



    With this list I won a belgium tournament in january (23 players), finish 9th in march (31 players) and made 2 time 2nd on small tournament (14 and 11 players). Actually the metagame is full of grixis, and it is really good for us: itís a positive matchup, and they generally just put 2 surgical extraction in the reserve. With the ban of senseiís divining top, the number of miracle deck has decreased, witch mean also less Rest in peace in the reserve ! Itís clearly a favorable metagame for dredge manaless actually.

  17. #897
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I'm afraid I strongly disagree. "I win this turn" > "I win in a couple of turns if you don't answer this thing".
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  18. #898
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    I'm afraid I strongly disagree. "I win this turn" > "I win in a couple of turns if you don't answer this thing".

    It' s clear if you focus only on this aspect, i' m agree with you : win this turn > win in a couple of turns . But removing the spy give you at least 3 free slot. And add chancellor of the annex x4 + prized amalgam x4 also give you more resilience.

    As I said, from a combo deck with an 2nd aggro plan here we have an aggro deck with a 2nd plan aggro. Metagame is slower than before, this mean aggro plan is available.

  19. #899
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Bougnat View Post
    It' s clear if you focus only on this aspect, i' m agree with you : win this turn > win in a couple of turns . But removing the spy give you at least 3 free slot. And add chancellor of the annex x4 + prized amalgam x4 also give you more resilience.

    As I said, from a combo deck with an 2nd aggro plan here we have an aggro deck with a 2nd plan aggro. Metagame is slower than before, this mean aggro plan is available.
    Regular Spy lists run Chancellors and Amalgams. They've been on Amalgam ever since it came out and recently swapped Gitaxian Probe in favor of Chancellors, so what's your point? The change you've made basically boils down to swapping out Spies in favor of Probes, which we cut b/c they risk blowouts and are dead in the graveyard.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  20. #900

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Bougnat View Post
    It' s clear if you focus only on this aspect, i' m agree with you : win this turn > win in a couple of turns . But removing the spy give you at least 3 free slot. And add chancellor of the annex x4 + prized amalgam x4 also give you more resilience.

    As I said, from a combo deck with an 2nd aggro plan here we have an aggro deck with a 2nd plan aggro. Metagame is slower than before, this mean aggro plan is available.
    Probe is a liability to counters, and while I don't think the combo is all that necessary there isnt really a card with enough utility to take its place unless you want to look at Gigapede.

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