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Thread: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

  1. #901

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Bougnat View Post
    Hi,


    Please excuse me if I make some mistake in English, I’m French, it's my first post on The source and it’ s not always easy to translate…

    I will present you my version of dredge manaless, with some choices witch are not common. I would like first to thank all of you : I decided to play this deck because of this great primer 3 years ago, and the discussion help to increase our level . I precise I tried quite all existing versions to arrive at this one (balustrade spy, whirlpool rider, shifting wall, black/blue/green reserve, force of will main deck or not …. ).
    Thanks for this great post Bougnat. Looking forward to exploring your ideas here. Dark Depths has gained in popularity so the bounce tech looks interesting. I would be interested in what cards you are sideboarding out in each matchup as well. Have you tried unmask, pharaoh, or surgical extraction in the sideboard? Congrats on your nice finishes.

  2. #902
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Just felt like dropping in to say that I went 2–1 with Manaless Dredge on Sunday, and it was a blast. It was my first time playing Manaless at an event (I play LED Dredge sometimes); I wasn't expecting to get the chance to play that day, so I was borrowing the deck. In spite of the fact that I was playing with a four-card sideboard, I managed to beat Lands(!!!) and Elves. I lost to Grixis Delver and lost one in the other two rounds (Leyline and Tabernacle got me), but I think a full sideboard probably would've changed some things. I only ever 'boarded in one card; either Ashen Rider or Iona.

    Definitely going to start messing around with a Manaless list. Might see whether it's worth it to incorporate LEDs.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  3. #903

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I've not been playing legacy in a long time, last time was last summer at a GP side event. I was on the blue version then with FoW, Probe, Whirlpools etc.
    With both Gitaxian Probe and Deathrite Shaman banned now, which version would you recommend going forward? DRS ban seems great for us.

  4. #904

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    With Deathrite Shaman gone, my interest has once again peaked with this deck. Not that it was really a big deal before, but it put a competitive constraint on Manaless because of the card's ubiquity in the format. It wasn't something you intrinsically had to fear, but there was always the possibility that a hand without Street Wraith or Phantasmagorian just folded to any random Deathrite deck in the format.

    Otherwise, it was pure gas.

    I think this deck will pick up directly where it left off in 2012. Not only is Top gone (to ensure Miracles had the ability to find answers), but now Deathrite is gone, too. Probe leaving didn't really hurt Manaless, because it was just a free accelerator and here and there a pitch card to Force.

    I think the time to reinvest is now. People are already kicking up Canadian Thresh talk into high gear, and if that deck starts shooting up the ranks, this was one of the premiere decks in the format to feast on it (like it did during its heyday).

    EDIT: I would stick with blue. It's hard to say where Storm goes without Probe, but Manaless can get around its loss with no problem.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  5. #905

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Here's what a Summer of 2018 Manaless Dredge list looks like from me:

    Manaless Dredge

    [4x] Golgari Grave-Troll
    [4x] Stinkweed Imp
    [4x] Golgari Thug
    [4x] Ichorid
    [4x] Nether Shadow
    [4x] Narcomoeba
    [4x] Bridge from Below
    [4x] Cabal Therapy
    [4x] Dread Return
    [4x] Phantasmagorian
    [4x] Street Wraith
    [4x] Force of Will
    [4x] Prized Amalgam
    [4x] Whirlpool Rider
    [2x] Faerie Macabre
    [1x] Shambling Shell
    [1x] Flayer of the Hatebound

    //Sideboard
    [4x] Leyline of Sanctity
    [4x] Disrupting Shoal
    [4x] Mindbreak Trap
    [2x] Faerie Macabre
    [1x] Ashen Rider

    ...To start. Beware of Crop Rotation and Thoughtseize decks. Leyline of Sanctity is your bread and butter there.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  6. #906

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Here's what a Summer of 2018 Manaless Dredge list looks like from me:

    Manaless Dredge

    [4x] Golgari Grave-Troll
    [4x] Stinkweed Imp
    [4x] Golgari Thug
    [4x] Ichorid
    [4x] Nether Shadow
    [4x] Narcomoeba
    [4x] Bridge from Below
    [4x] Cabal Therapy
    [4x] Dread Return
    [4x] Phantasmagorian
    [4x] Street Wraith
    [4x] Force of Will
    [4x] Prized Amalgam
    [4x] Whirlpool Rider
    [2x] Faerie Macabre
    [1x] Shambling Shell
    [1x] Flayer of the Hatebound

    //Sideboard
    [4x] Disrupting Shoal
    [4x] Leyline of Sanctity
    [4x] Mindbreak Trap
    [2x] Faerie Macabre
    [1x] Ashen Rider

    ...To start.
    Nice..you write side guide vs tiers decks? Thanks

  7. #907

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Sorry, I had to change the list. The new list is posted above (edited).
    The Night HE Came Home.

  8. #908

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Sorry, I had to change the list. The new list is posted above (edited).
    I think this list is good in New meta post bann shaman

  9. #909

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    1. You want Faerie main. The amount of Reanimator decks you'll see pop up - at first - will be staggering. This includes Loam strategies, as well. If you look at the lists I've played historically, I always run a pair.
    2. You want Leyline of Sanctity. Badly. Crop Rotation and Thoughtseize decks will emerge.
    3. Four Force or bust main.
    4. Prized Amalgam, the fourth Force and a set of Whirlpool Rider fills out the Probe slot from before.
    5. Mindbreak Trap with Leyline (and Force) shores up the Storm match-up as it always does.
    6. Expect Stoneforge and Rest in Peace/Containment Priest to show up. This is where four Shoals are needed. You have two-cost spells in other Shoals, Narcomoeba and the full set of Riders (twelve total). That with Force should be enough.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  10. #910

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    1. You want Faerie main. The amount of Reanimator decks you'll see pop up - at first - will be staggering. This includes Loam strategies, as well. If you look at the lists I've played historically, I always run a pair.
    2. You want Leyline of Sanctity. Badly. Crop Rotation and Thoughtseize decks will emerge.
    3. Four Force or bust main.
    4. Prized Amalgam, the fourth Force and a set of Whirlpool Rider fills out the Probe slot from before.
    5. Mindbreak Trap with Leyline (and Force) shores up the Storm match-up as it always does.
    6. Expect Stoneforge and Rest in Peace/Containment Priest to show up. This is where four Shoals are needed.
    Leyline of Sanctity you side in vs storm and?

  11. #911

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Leyline of Sanctity comes in against the following decks and strategies:

    1. Discard-centric decks.
    2. Burn decks.
    3. Storm/Belcher decks.
    4. Crop Rotation->Bog decks.

    It's going to be so good. I remember how many times that card saved me from getting locked out. Don't underestimate its power; it's probably one of the best sideboard options the deck has.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  12. #912

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I see little to no reason to use Chancellor of the Annex or Force of Will anymore, with Deathrite Shaman gone there will be a rise of Reanimator and a fall of Storm.

  13. #913

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I see little to no reason to use Chancellor of the Annex or Force of Will anymore
    I aggre with that, Force of will really don't seems relevant in the game 1.

    I play a lot versus ANT and I can assure that Mindbreak Trap don't do a trick because ANT have too much discard. Moreover without Probe her discard number will increase.

    With the disparition of Shaman, the number of graveyard hate will rise from 3 to 4 or 5 in all sideboard I think. Our worst enemie : Grafdigger's Cage will come back.

  14. #914

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Do we take this opportunity to up the number of dredgers in the main? At 15 dredgers I still find I have to mull way too often. Can those Probes turn into Greater Mossdogs for higher overall consistency at the cost of speed?

  15. #915

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I see little to no reason to use Chancellor of the Annex or Force of Will anymore, with Deathrite Shaman gone there will be a rise of Reanimator and a fall of Storm.
    As Michael maentioned above, the rise in rip / priest decks justify fow and/or chacellor

  16. #916

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    As Michael maentioned above, the rise in rip / priest decks justify fow and/or chacellor
    Chancellor of the Annex does nothing to stop Rest in Peace or Containment Priest, the opponent has 12 cantrips to cast into Chancellor of the Annex on turn one for a turn two lock, and neither of those cards are in the MD for Force of Will to counter i.e. there is no reason to MD Force of Will ourselves in order to let them know we are playing Force of Will for game 2. With Storm increasing discard, MD Force of Will has little to no impact on combo and the deck is likely better off with a card like Gigapede, Mossdog, Chancellor of the Forge for a minor increase in consistency or Vengeful Pharaoh to prortect the deck from slow starts vs aggro.

  17. #917

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Chancellor of the Annex does nothing to stop Rest in Peace or Containment Priest, the opponent has 12 cantrips to cast into Chancellor of the Annex on turn one for a turn two lock, and neither of those cards are in the MD for Force of Will to counter i.e. there is no reason to MD Force of Will ourselves in order to let them know we are playing Force of Will for game 2. With Storm increasing discard, MD Force of Will has little to no impact on combo and the deck is likely better off with a card like Gigapede, Mossdog, Chancellor of the Forge for a minor increase in consistency or Vengeful Pharaoh to prortect the deck from slow starts vs aggro.
    i`m sorry to disagree. maybe you are right about chacellor but whta if our opponent knows we run fow? Players know that manaless run it.

    Do you suggest replace that slot with pharaoh, gigapede and so on?

  18. #918

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Sooo, anyone else wanna get crazy and do the Hoard Moar thing again? I remember playing this back in 2016 shortly after Prized Amalgam came out, and it was fun to play. Resorted back to a more typical blue Whirlpool Rider/Fow deck lately. There was talk about this back around page 21, little before, little after.

    Need to figure out what to do with those g.probe slots, but with DRS gone, less bodies to get eaten from the yard. I do expect there to be an uptick in Cage decks, but RIP will likey still be in the expected decks (D&T, Miracles).

    Deck I last played with first posted by mistercakes:

    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Street Wraith
    2 Bloodghast
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Dakmor Salvage
    4 Nether Shadow
    2 Ashen Ghoul
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Ichorid
    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 Bridge From Below
    2 Vengeful Pharaoh
    4 Phantasmagorian
    4 Prized Amalgam
    3 Dread Return
    1 Flayer of the Hatebound
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Nature's Claim
    2 Undiscovered Paradise

    Thinking about adding a Therapy +1, Shell +2, Ashen +1 to replace the G. Probes. And scrapping the LED sb (because those cards are in another deck) for +4 FoW, +4 Faerire, +1 MB Trap, +3 Contagion

    // Legacy - Manaless Dredge Horde Moar

    // LULZ

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 47 Creature
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Street Wraith
    2 Bloodghast
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Nether Shadow
    3 Ashen Ghoul
    4 Ichorid
    2 Vengeful Pharaoh
    4 Phantasmagorian
    4 Prized Amalgam
    1 Flayer of the Hatebound
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    2 Shambling Shell

    // 2 Enchantment
    2 Bridge from Below

    // 4 Land
    4 Dakmor Salvage

    // 7 Sorcery
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Dread Return


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 4 Creature
    SB: 4 Faerie Macabre

    // 11 Instant
    SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 4 Force of Will
    SB: 3 Contagion

  19. #919
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Hi everybody,

    ahg113 I liked the last list you posted, I'm going to give it a try. I never played with Dakmor Salvage, so I'm curious to try it. Actually, after the ban of Gitaxian Probe I felt a bit lost. I'm going to replace it with something else also on my other list with Balustrade Spy, the fearless one; I still don't know how.

    Looking at the list, I have a couple of questions:

    Thanks for your attention.

    Happy dredging to everybody!

  20. #920

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I'd run macabre md

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