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Thread: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

  1. #941
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by echelon View Post
    yeah, amalgam is a 4-off period. Regardless of if you're on a blue list or straight spy.
    preach!

  2. #942

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    What the hell would you even cut Amalgram for that matters in any way, shape or form when we already have 4 slots to fill?

    I've been playing with Pharaoh and can't really say it's made much of a difference in any matchup so far, I feed it to Ichorid more than anything.

  3. #943
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    echelon, I've played your list a few times and really like it. Would you make any changes to the SB in light of the recent bannings?

  4. #944

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Well if everybody maintain that Prized Amalgam is a auto-included in 4 copies, I must be wrong then.

    Thanks for your insights, guys!

  5. #945
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by C4Ctu5 View Post
    Well if everybody maintain that Prized Amalgam is a auto-included in 4 copies, I must be wrong then.

    Thanks for your insights, guys!
    Don't underestimate the power of a 3/3 it might come into play tapped but it is the biggest body that sticks around on our board. It is a good clock and gives the beat down plan real legs

  6. #946

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by C4Ctu5 View Post
    Prized Amalgam is just butter on your pop-tarts.
    Have you ever actually eaten butter on a pop tart? It's the best.

    Just like 4x Prized Amalgam.

  7. #947
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by gngpostalsrvc View Post
    echelon, I've played your list a few times and really like it. Would you make any changes to the SB in light of the recent bannings?
    That is so cool! For now I wouldn't really know what to change though. I'm unsure if trying to hedge for bad MUs at the cost of some consistency is better than just trying to kill them as fast as you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  8. #948

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by WarpWorld View Post
    Don't underestimate the power of a 3/3 it might come into play tapped but it is the biggest body that sticks around on our board. It is a good clock and gives the beat down plan real legs
    I defeated Reanimator with an active Elesh Norn BECAUSE of the Amalgams: they survive of course... D'returned the Flayer, sac'ed Flayer to Therapy, Undying damage and won when the Amalgams came back.

    These 4 are a must include :)

  9. #949
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Well done !

  10. #950
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I have a question to you guys...

    I goldfished a couple hands these days, to get a feel how many Dredgers I wanted to play, and also to test if I could implement/like a card like Serum Powder.

    One hand I had was the following:

    Bridge from Below
    Prized Amalgam
    Dread Return
    Street Wraith
    Force of Will
    Ichorid
    Phantasmagorian

    Would you keep such a hand Game 1? You essential had an 8th and 9th draw.

    Anyways, I decided to keep on the goldfish. Card 8 was Faerie Macabre and the 9th card from Sreet Wraith was another Amalgam.

    So... ...I drew no Dredgers, but if I discard Phant eot I could've binned all cards except FoW and have Ichorid & Bridge for 2 turns and 2 Amalgams. Is this enough in some matchups? Haven't played legacy for a long while, but I would like to know what you guys think about the hand and the situation.



    Quote Originally Posted by vieko View Post
    I defeated Reanimator with an active Elesh Norn BECAUSE of the Amalgams: they survive of course... D'returned the Flayer, sac'ed Flayer to Therapy, Undying damage and won when the Amalgams came back.

    These 4 are a must include :)
    Eh... something is wrong here. If you DR a Flayer it dies because Elesh Norn gives it -2-2. You still get the 2 damage trigger and the Undying trigger for 3 damage when it returns, but you can't sac it to Therapy due to Elesh Norns static ability. ...and you wouldn't afterwards because it would be dead then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells
    :16: - (See, now Erratic Explosion's a deck)
    Legendary Creature - Horror
    Haste, Hexproof, Double Strike, Trample
    Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells is indestructible.
    Permanents you control can't be sacrificed or copied.
    Whenever Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells attacks, defending player gets liver cancer (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
    13/13

  11. #951

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Pre ban my list included probes and spies, no FoW or other counters. There's seems to be a blue is the preferred version, it seemed like a variation before. I've played with whirlpool a few times, it just feels slower than spy to me. Is there room for both to keep the speed of spy and have the access to blue for the counters with whirlpool?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  12. #952

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by quikaxe View Post
    Pre ban my list included probes and spies, no FoW or other counters. There's seems to be a blue is the preferred version, it seemed like a variation before. I've played with whirlpool a few times, it just feels slower than spy to me. Is there room for both to keep the speed of spy and have the access to blue for the counters with whirlpool?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Drop the single Shambling Shell for a single Spy - done deal.

  13. #953

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by quikaxe View Post
    Pre ban my list included probes and spies, no FoW or other counters. There's seems to be a blue is the preferred version, it seemed like a variation before. I've played with whirlpool a few times, it just feels slower than spy to me. Is there room for both to keep the speed of spy and have the access to blue for the counters with whirlpool?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Sure, with 8 blue cards in the MD you SB in Force of Will and a supporting blue card, like Snapback as an arguably worse Contagion, and then you're fine - Whirlpool Rider was mainly added because it was 2cc for that other counter spell. Blue isn't really mandatory, Rest in Peace and Grafdigger's Cage are few and far between even in the decks that can play them because they want to abuse Snapcaster Mage themselves, I think you can get away with Unmask and Contagion just fine. The best cards in the SB are honestly all Leylines, Sanctity for Storm, Void for Reanimator and then black pitch removal for D&T creatures is all you really need (that M19 creature that exiles to wipe the yard will probably see a lot of play, I think it's even MDable)

  14. #954
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Hi,

    I would like to propose you a variant I' m testing actually with artifact. I try to find a solution to Grafdigger's Cage and other anoying card as Containment Priest.



    " The brown manaless "

    13 dredge:
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Thug
    1 Shambling Shell

    12 draw
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Urza's Bauble
    4 Street Wraith

    20 creatures
    4 Nether Shadow
    4 Ichorid
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Prized Amalgam
    4 Dryad Arbor

    15 Others
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Dread Return
    3 Phantasmagorian
    1 Flayer of the Hatebound


    Subboard
    SB: 4 Memnite
    SB: 4 Sword of the Meek
    SB: 3 Salvage Titan
    SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap




    Let me explain my choices:
    Main deck, the missing cards are Whirlpool Rider, but thanks to the 4 Mishra's Bauble, 4 Urza's Bauble and 4 Dryad Arbor witch are not usualy in the list you can make a big pressure immediatly.

    Post side against Grafdigger's Cage and Containment Priest. :

    +4 Memnite
    +4 Sword of the Meek
    +3 Salvage Titan
    -4 Prized Amalgam
    -3 Dread Return
    -3 Phantasmagorian
    -1 Flayer of the Hatebound

    Actually, we have only force of will to counter the cage. Some as done some green list with Nature's Claim but the problem is you need this card + a forest in your hand to make something. With the list I propose, you need a Dryad Arbor or a Memnite (1 of the 8 cards) . The aim is to dredge as much as possible thanks to the 12 draws. When the graveyard is quite full, you can play your 1/1 from your hand. 2-3 Sword of the Meek should come on board. Then sacrifice them to put a Salvage Titan. If you played a Memnite this mean you had sacrifice it to the titan and you have 2-4 2/2 creatures thanks to the Bridge from Below. You should hope after it will be enought to win
    There is maybe something better to do but rather than lost immediatly against a Grafdigger's Cage Turn 1, here you have a real strategy. And this work also against Containment Priest !


    Do not hesitate to comment this stategy and thanks to read it !


    Bougnat

  15. #955

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Bougnat View Post
    Hi,

    I would like to propose you a variant I' m testing actually with artifact. I try to find a solution to Grafdigger's Cage and other anoying card as Containment Priest.



    " The brown manaless "

    13 dredge:
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Thug
    1 Shambling Shell

    12 draw
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Urza's Bauble
    4 Street Wraith

    20 creatures
    4 Nether Shadow
    4 Ichorid
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Prized Amalgam
    4 Dryad Arbor

    15 Others
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Dread Return
    3 Phantasmagorian
    1 Flayer of the Hatebound


    Subboard
    SB: 4 Memnite
    SB: 4 Sword of the Meek
    SB: 3 Salvage Titan
    SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap




    Let me explain my choices:
    Main deck, the missing cards are Whirlpool Rider, but thanks to the 4 Mishra's Bauble, 4 Urza's Bauble and 4 Dryad Arbor witch are not usualy in the list you can make a big pressure immediatly.

    Post side against Grafdigger's Cage and Containment Priest. :

    +4 Memnite
    +4 Sword of the Meek
    +3 Salvage Titan
    -4 Prized Amalgam
    -3 Dread Return
    -3 Phantasmagorian
    -1 Flayer of the Hatebound

    Actually, we have only force of will to counter the cage. Some as done some green list with Nature's Claim but the problem is you need this card + a forest in your hand to make something. With the list I propose, you need a Dryad Arbor or a Memnite (1 of the 8 cards) . The aim is to dredge as much as possible thanks to the 12 draws. When the graveyard is quite full, you can play your 1/1 from your hand. 2-3 Sword of the Meek should come on board. Then sacrifice them to put a Salvage Titan. If you played a Memnite this mean you had sacrifice it to the titan and you have 2-4 2/2 creatures thanks to the Bridge from Below. You should hope after it will be enought to win
    There is maybe something better to do but rather than lost immediatly against a Grafdigger's Cage Turn 1, here you have a real strategy. And this work also against Containment Priest !


    Do not hesitate to comment this stategy and thanks to read it !


    Bougnat
    Interesting in theory. How gas this worked out in practice?

  16. #956
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    All I see is 12 cards that are dead when dredged... GGT now has dredge 5 in that list, functionally.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  17. #957
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Hi,

    after testing please find my feedback of this experimental version :

    Whirlpool Rider is clearly missing main deck. I use to play without before the ban of deathrite shaman, but it was because Chancellor of the Annex were always included X4 and were a good target for dread return.
    I ll include again 3 Whirlpool Rider MD.


    Mishra's Bauble and Urza's Bauble are a strong alternative to the ban of Gitaxian Probe. It helps you drawing + (less than gitaxian but helps you) making a choice for Cabal Therapy.
    Mishra's Bauble and Urza's Bauble will probably be present in my list.


    the option 4 Dryad Arbor MD +4 Memnite SB is really bad. They are ridiculous alone (1/1), the player remove them easily from the board and you need to destroy the structure of the deck to include them.....
    It was a try !


    4 Sword of the Meek 3 Salvage Titan were not bad. Sword of the Meek transform your 1/1 to 2/3, increasing the pressure until the letal combo. And Salvage Titan has 2 effects:
    - When you cast it you destroy 3 Sword of the Meek. You have a big body creature on table (6/4), but you have also 3 Sword of the Meek ready to come back to make pressure and you are close again to cast a Salvage Titan !!!
    - the 2nd card effect mean you can have it in your hand easily. This effect is nice to cast it, but it helps you also to discard an extra card (1 time) at the end of turn: you have you hand full (7), dredge (8), and return it in your hand (9)!
    I ll continue my test the 4 Sword of the Meek +3 Salvage Titan



    Bougnat



    PS: Sorry for the spelling and translation mistakes, I' m talking french.

  18. #958

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Bougnat View Post
    Hi,

    after testing please find my feedback of this experimental version :

    Whirlpool Rider is clearly missing main deck. I use to play without before the ban of deathrite shaman, but it was because Chancellor of the Annex were always included X4 and were a good target for dread return.
    I ll include again 3 Whirlpool Rider MD.


    Mishra's Bauble and Urza's Bauble are a strong alternative to the ban of Gitaxian Probe. It helps you drawing + (less than gitaxian but helps you) making a choice for Cabal Therapy.
    Mishra's Bauble and Urza's Bauble will probably be present in my list.


    the option 4 Dryad Arbor MD +4 Memnite SB is really bad. They are ridiculous alone (1/1), the player remove them easily from the board and you need to destroy the structure of the deck to include them.....
    It was a try !


    4 Sword of the Meek 3 Salvage Titan were not bad. Sword of the Meek transform your 1/1 to 2/3, increasing the pressure until the letal combo. And Salvage Titan has 2 effects:
    - When you cast it you destroy 3 Sword of the Meek. You have a big body creature on table (6/4), but you have also 3 Sword of the Meek ready to come back to make pressure and you are close again to cast a Salvage Titan !!!
    - the 2nd card effect mean you can have it in your hand easily. This effect is nice to cast it, but it helps you also to discard an extra card (1 time) at the end of turn: you have you hand full (7), dredge (8), and return it in your hand (9)!
    I ll continue my test the 4 Sword of the Meek +3 Salvage Titan



    Bougnat



    PS: Sorry for the spelling and translation mistakes, I' m talking french.
    I think Chancellor of the Forge is better than memmite, in the past good players, play it in the main and have good results. The problem with the Cage don't solution in the lategame

  19. #959
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    it might not be very good, but hollow one works well with phantasmagorian if they are running cage or surgical (and don't target phantasmagorian)
    -rob

  20. #960

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Bauble Dredge was a thing before Gitaxian Probe, personally I've been running Gigapede in order to optimize graveyards without exposing myself to graveyard wipes and liking it quite a bit.

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