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Thread: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

  1. #961

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Casual scum n00b question: With Whirlpool Rider's triggered ability, let's say you're shuffling 5 cards into your library and drawing/dredging 5 times. You can dredge into a dredger the first time, and then use that new dredger's static ability for the next dredge, and so forth, right? So you don't have to start out with 5 dredgers in your GY when Rider enters the battlefield if you want to dredge 5 times.

    But you can't activate Phantasmagoria's ability from the graveyard in between dredges to dredge with the same dredger repeatedly, right? It's just that with each successive draw, you either draw, or you choose between drawing and dredging if a dredger is in your GY, even if the dredger only got there from the last dredge.

    I said dredge a lot.

  2. #962
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Lava Snacks View Post
    Casual scum n00b question: With Whirlpool Rider's triggered ability, let's say you're shuffling 5 cards into your library and drawing/dredging 5 times. You can dredge into a dredger the first time, and then use that new dredger's static ability for the next dredge, and so forth, right? So you don't have to start out with 5 dredgers in your GY when Rider enters the battlefield if you want to dredge 5 times.

    But you can't activate Phantasmagoria's ability from the graveyard in between dredges to dredge with the same dredger repeatedly, right? It's just that with each successive draw, you either draw, or you choose between drawing and dredging if a dredger is in your GY, even if the dredger only got there from the last dredge.

    I said dredge a lot.
    Yes if you only have one dredger in your yard when you start and find another one as you go you get to keep dredging until you have drawn/dredged 5 times. It is also correct that you can't activate Phantasmagorian in the middle of resolving the ability from the rider. Each draw is treated separately which is why you can dredge each one or choose to draw the card if your library is getting to low on cards.

  3. #963

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Great, thanks.

  4. #964

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Yo I'm loving learning all the tricks; this deck is a blast.

    The trick that tickled me today was a probably obvious and elementary one with Street Wraith and Phantasmagorian. When activating Phantasmagorian's ability twice, it hadn't occurred to me to activate it to discard a dredger and wait for the second, maintain priority and activate Wraith, and then activate it a second time when its ability was back on top of the stack, based on what I dredged, to get stuff on top of a dredged Nether Shadow or whatever, or even to decide not to activate it a second time for whatever reason, or to (and I think this is my favorite) activate the ability then to once again discard the same dredger that I binned the first time and activated with Wraith.

    What do you guys choose to do against Sneak & Show when you have a Force of Will and blue card in hand, plus a Whirlpool Rider, and they cast Show and Tell? Obviously it's dependent on other cards in the graveyard and game state, but I was wondering about Forcing the SnT, or just letting it go, knowing that my Rider will probably win the game.

  5. #965

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Lava Snacks View Post
    What do you guys choose to do against Sneak & Show when you have a Force of Will and blue card in hand, plus a Whirlpool Rider, and they cast Show and Tell? Obviously it's dependent on other cards in the graveyard and game state, but I was wondering about Forcing the SnT, or just letting it go, knowing that my Rider will probably win the game.
    There is 2 possibility for him : Griselbrand or Emrakul. If he put Griselbrand and is full tap, he will draw 14 into maybe petal and force of will but won't create more threat. And Emrakul we don't really care. So if he is full tap and I have a dredger I put the Whirlpool Rider and dredge 7 into my draw, into 3 Cabal that he have to force and I basically win the game thanks to him ;)

  6. #966
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    @Lava Snacks: Another fun one is cycling a Street Wraith into another dredge or activating Phantasmagorian to get more Prized Amalgams in the yard as reaction to a Narcomoeba trigger

    I.e you dredge a Moeba into the yard, let the trigger go on the stack and in response cycle Street Wraith/dredge some more or activate Phantasmagorian to discard in-hand Amalgams so they see the Moeba hit the field and trigger themselves
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  7. #967
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenio View Post
    There is 2 possibility for him : Griselbrand or Emrakul. If he put Griselbrand and is full tap, he will draw 14 into maybe petal and force of will but won't create more threat. And Emrakul we don't really care. So if he is full tap and I have a dredger I put the Whirlpool Rider and dredge 7 into my draw, into 3 Cabal that he have to force and I basically win the game thanks to him ;)
    There's a bunch of sneak and show that are running 2 omniscience. He can also put sneak attack into play if he has the mana to kill you (maybe), but would have to sneak in emrakul.
    -rob

  8. #968
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    There's a bunch of sneak and show that are running 2 omniscience. He can also put sneak attack into play if he has the mana to kill you (maybe), but would have to sneak in emrakul.
    Omni is the card that scares me the most without Chancellor of the annex. If we put in something the flips are Library and they have a hasty emrakul it's still not the end of the game as long as we have more than 15 life. We sacrifice some number of narcomoebas and such to the Annihilator trigger and get zombies. Then we get amalgams at end of turn and our ichorids and Shadows on our upkeep. As long as we have progenitus or a card to draw we should just win. Now a hasty emrakul and griselbrand is lights out.

  9. #969

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    My favorite line of play is to discard a Phantasmagorian turn 1, activate it in the opponent's second main discarding one or more dredgers, in response cycle Street Wraith and dredge. Hopefully we hit a Narco and we get to return any Prized Amalgams discarded or milled in their end step.

  10. #970

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Long Time Manaless Dredger First time Poster looking to for Ideas for MD/SB options.

    I have always been fond of this deck as it was my first deck in to the format. This was a deck that help grind my way to a playset of both Force of Will and Tropical Island so I'd like to bring it back to my meta with a vengeance in the face of prison decks, control and the reassurance of goblins in my meta.

    The Mainboard is pretty stock and there isn't much going on aside from some choice card selections that are currently under going some testing. I paid more attention to the sideboard.

    With the sideboard I went all in on the Leyline hate plan. I have tried a different sideboard in the past running Nature's Claim but I found it weak to discard/ chalice prior my obtaining of Forces. With this board I am kind of hedging that my opponent will try to mull to Leyline of the Void for the hypothetical Turn 0 win. Alternatively, this is where I can mull and be potentially rewarded by hitting either Land Grant or Bayou with Reverent Silence or hit a fast enough start with Land Grant + Cabal Therapy to negate that Turn 1 Do Nothing on Games 2 & Game 3.

    This plan is admittedly soft to Grafdigger's Cage without Force backup or Turn 0 Chancellor Tax. I've been looking into ways around it but with the Leyline Hate package there isn't much wiggle room to work with.


    Its still a work in progress to see if it is viable .

    Also trying to answer how to sideboard the Leyline Hate plan either cutting 6 cards or adding in 6.

    Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

    MB

    4x Narcomoeba
    4x Stinkweed Imp
    4x Golgari Grave Troll
    4x Street Wraith
    4x Ichorid
    4x Prized Amalgam
    4x Phantasmagorian
    4x Golgari Thug
    4x Cabal Therapy
    4x Dread Return
    4x Bridge from Below
    4x Force of Will
    3x Shambling Shell
    3x Chancellor of the Annex
    3x Balustrade Spy
    1x Griselbrand
    1x Flayer of the Hatebound
    1x Laboratory Maniac ( A new addition as a possible win con + additional blue card)




    SB

    1x Progenitus
    1x Realm Razer
    1x Contagion
    1x Sickening Shoal
    1x Bayou
    2x Land Grant
    2x Ashen Rider
    3x Reverent Silence
    3x Mindbreak Trap

  11. #971
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Laboratory Maniac is an incredibly risky wincon for this deck as it'll either have to survive for a turn or you'll have to have a Street Wraith in hand the turn you DR it. Why bother with that if Flayer means a guaranteed kill the same turn you DR it?
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  12. #972
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Laboratory Maniac is an incredibly risky wincon for this deck as it'll either have to survive for a turn or you'll have to have a Street Wraith in hand the turn you DR it. Why bother with that if Flayer means a guaranteed kill the same turn you DR it?
    I agree that lab man is risky. I do know someone playing with lab man and elvish visionary as their main win con. I have been trying to get them switch to flyer but they like lab man.

  13. #973
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Yup, seems like a much safer and more robust way to win the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  14. #974
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Yup, seems like a much safer and more robust way to win the game.
    I believe he plays 1 lab man and 2 visionary. The down side is of course that lab man and visionary are not black for ichorids. Beyond that I don't think I matters how you win once you flip your library, only that you do win

  15. #975

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Laboratory Maniac is an incredibly risky wincon for this deck as it'll either have to survive for a turn or you'll have to have a Street Wraith in hand the turn you DR it. Why bother with that if Flayer means a guaranteed kill the same turn you DR it?
    The idea in theory is to minimize the amount of Dread Return to set up a window to win. Most Flayer wins need 3 Dread Returns minimum which leaves 1 Dread Return as a flex slot or counter fodder without full information with Cabal Therapy.

    I am not going to deny that it is a risky line but its one of several options the deck has in its arsenal albeit a risky one.. I don't think it will be a permanent stay in the MB. It either doesn't work out or proves its worth. It just an idea i'm tinkering around with adding more win cons to the deck that don't with through damage as to get from under certain creatures/lands that prevent damage.

    The safer line for the Lab Man play would still involve 3 Dread Return as I would have to get Azami, Lady of Scrolls to tap Lab Man to win after Spy mills me out. Might have to go that route for this line.

  16. #976
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Just DR Flayer and let triggers do the rest..?
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  17. #977

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Just DR Flayer and let triggers do the rest..?
    That'll do it most of the time.
    Flayer + Flayer with Undying + 4xPrized Amalgam = 4+5+4x3 = 21 damage worth of triggers.
    Yet another reason I'd never cut a Prized Amalgam.

  18. #978
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Yup
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  19. #979
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    .... and just flayer + prized amalgam you can kill a Griselbrand :)

  20. #980
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    what do you guys think of?

    Blazing Shoal, with Dragon Tyrant, reaper king. Sneaking in an extra 10 damage seems pretty sweet. Im gonna try it main -4 probe (after ban) -4 therapy (worse after probe ban) - 2 shambling shell
    Last edited by Noloam_; 08-31-2018 at 04:55 AM.
    Eldrazi stompy list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/noloam

    sideboard guide can be found on page 84

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