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Thread: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

  1. #1041
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    What's really funny is that Noxious Revival turns into a de facto Lightning Bolt with Creeping Chill.
    excluding when you have chill in opening hand and need to phantasmo it to the graveyard, what is the application for noxious and creeping chill?
    -rob

  2. #1042
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroYawgmoth View Post
    The real question is how to fit 4 Chill and 4 Noxious along with the FoWs...
    That seems ambitious for the main deck. I have only been playing with FoW when I run riders otherwise the blue count is generally low in spy builds without probe.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    excluding when you have chill in opening hand and need to phantasmo it to the graveyard, what is the application for noxious and creeping chill?
    It isn't the two together but separately. Revival saves a card or takes our opponents target in matchups like reanimator. I don't think it is better than faerie. Faerie and revival are fighting for the same spot and I think faerie is the better card.

  3. #1043

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    excluding when you have chill in opening hand and need to phantasmo it to the graveyard, what is the application for noxious and creeping chill?
    To put Creeping Chill back on top of your deck, dredge it and have your opponent take three more damage. That is a secondary application. Noxious Revival has utility otherwise in Manaless Dredge fighting against Surgical Extraction, fighting opposing reanimation strategies on turn zero, etc.

    What I'm saying is that if you're using C.C. as a card in the framework of the deck, then Noxious Revival becomes an additional "Lightning Bolt" effect with Chill, Ichorid, Amalgam, etc.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  4. #1044
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Sure, but what would you cut to facilitate it?
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  5. #1045
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I've never played with chill, but from the text it looks like it is a one time thing, exiled from the game. Revival should only impact manaless dredge with chill if both are in opening hand. (And you find a way to discard it)
    -rob

  6. #1046
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    I've never played with chill, but from the text it looks like it is a one time thing, exiled from the game. Revival should only impact manaless dredge with chill if both are in opening hand. (And you find a way to discard it)
    That's why I think it is too narrow in the main deck. Right now my list looks like this.

    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Thug
    3 Shambling Shell

    4 Ichorid
    4 Prized Amalgam
    3 Nether Shadow
    4 Narcomoeba

    3 Balustrade Spy
    1 Lotleth Giant
    1 Progenitus

    4 Phantasmagorian
    4 Street Wraith
    2 Faerie Macabre

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Creeping Chill
    3 Dread Return
    4 Bridge from Below

    SB: ***
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Noxious Revival
    2 Leyline of Sanctity
    2 Contagion
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Vengeful Pharaoh


    As I have said in my list I would cut the fairies for noxious but I think fairies better game 1 where we don't have to deal with Surgical.

  7. #1047
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I run almost the exact same 60. -2 Faeries, +1 Nether Shadow and +1 Dread Return
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  8. #1048
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    I run almost the exact same 60. -2 Faeries, +1 Nether Shadow and +1 Dread Return
    It feels strong. My sideboard is always up in the air.

  9. #1049

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by WarpWorld View Post
    That's why I think it is too narrow in the main deck. Right now my list looks like this.

    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Thug
    3 Shambling Shell

    4 Ichorid
    4 Prized Amalgam
    3 Nether Shadow
    4 Narcomoeba

    3 Balustrade Spy
    1 Lotleth Giant
    1 Progenitus

    4 Phantasmagorian
    4 Street Wraith
    2 Faerie Macabre

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Creeping Chill
    3 Dread Return
    4 Bridge from Below

    SB: ***
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Noxious Revival
    2 Leyline of Sanctity
    2 Contagion
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Vengeful Pharaoh


    As I have said in my list I would cut the fairies for noxious but I think fairies better game 1 where we don't have to deal with Surgical.
    Could you elaborate please on what you'd side in/out for different matchups?

  10. #1050
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    To put Creeping Chill back on top of your deck, dredge it and have your opponent take three more damage. That is a secondary application.
    Put Creeping Chill from *where* back on top of your deck? Note the card tag for RTFC purposes.

    If you Dredged it and drained them, it gets exiled. It's not in the GY to Revival back. If you Dredged it and didn't drain them, then sure you can Revival it back to drain them, but that seems redundant. Just drain the first time.

    The only way Creeping Chill is in your GY is if you discarded it from opening hand (e.g. with Phantasmagorian). This Noxious Revival + Chill combo is only live if you get an opener with BOTH Creeping Chill and Noxious Revival and you had a window to dump a non-Dredge card without slowing down your engine. That's a really narrow case to hit them for an extra 3, but it costs you 3-4 card slots in the deck (hurting consistency).

    Revival is good in the SB to fight Surgical and troll BR Reanimator when they try to go off on turn 1. Maindeck it seems weak. When you aren't using it as a GY trick, the best synergy it has with the core engine is recurring Narcomoebas (to get more zombies or Amalgam triggers) or saving Bridge when an opponent's creature dies.

  11. #1051

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    The overall utility was why it was being tested, not just with Creeping Chill discarded with Phantasmagorian. That's what I was referring to, but it's still a Bolt by itself.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  12. #1052
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    The overall utility was why it was being tested, not just with Creeping Chill discarded with Phantasmagorian. That's what I was referring to, but it's still a Bolt by itself.
    The point is it's not a Bolt by itself. Excluding the Phantasmo + Chill in the opener scenario, it doesn't work as a Bolt.

    The rest of the utlity is fine, maybe justifying 4 copies in the SB, but the interaction you're describing doesn't work.

  13. #1053

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    The point is it's not a Bolt by itself. Excluding the Phantasmo + Chill in the opener scenario, it doesn't work as a Bolt.
    I think we're not on the same page. Noxious Revival only works as a Bolt when it's discarded with Phantasmagorian and the situation allows for Revival to put it back on top if it was discarded - I know that (because you exile it to dome someone). It's strictly utility in every sense otherwise. So yes, to your final sentence - I know it's a Bolt only in that situation. My point was that it has that added ability that ties in to its overall utility.

    EDIT: When I said it's a "Bolt by itself," I meant Creeping Chill - not Noxious Revival.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  14. #1054
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    hi folks,
    just made top 8 last sunday in a 55 people tournament. Here's the list i've used:

    4 chancellor W
    4 chills
    4 therapy
    3 DReturn
    1 SShell
    4 GGT
    4 StImp
    4 Thugs
    4 Narco
    4 Ichos
    4 Nether Shadow
    1 Lotleth Giant (gonna switch back to Flayer)
    4 Amalgams
    3 Spies
    4 Phantasmagorian
    4 Wraith
    4 Bridges

    SB:
    4 MBtrap
    4 Faerie
    3 Contagion
    2 Vengeful Phara
    1 Progenitus
    1 Ashen Rider

    turn 1 vs UWblade
    won 2-0 through 3 surgicals postboard
    in 2 VP, 3 contagion // out 1 Giant, 3 spies, 1 DRet (expected cont. priest in some numbers)

    turn 2 vs EsperBlade
    won 2-0 through 3 surgicals postboard (again)
    in//out same as before

    turn 3 vs MUD stompy
    I.D.
    after winning g1, he won g2 by landing a B Leyline, g3 i offered the draw he refuses and mulled to 6; offered ID again and refuses.... so on till he mulled to two and before watching the cards he accepted the draw
    in//out none

    turn 4 vs AK Miracles
    won 2-0 won g1, on g2 he sees 1 surgical only and manascrewed at 2 lands. got stomped pretty soon
    in//out same as before

    turn 5 vs Canadian UGR
    won 2-1 after winning g1, got an awful situation in g2 where i've no wraith nor phantasmag., just 2 GGT + 2 Stimp and he had double surgical and started with a flipped delver so every time got a dredger extracter he also got a free timewalk. g3 got a wraith to protect a dredger and comboed him into oblivion
    in 2 VP // out 2 chills

    turn 6 ID vs d&t

    so undefeated 4-0-2 got into top 8

    Top8 lost 1-2 to a human aggro who won g1 with me not finding a dredger in top 12 cards, he lost g2 mulliganing into oblivion and won g2 sticking 2 Cpriest and i won't see a VP nor a contagion to remove'em. found out that he sided in 4 B leyline + 4 Cpriest
    in//out same as turn 1

    TBO the only change i'll do is to switch back to flayer the giant. i thougth that giant will be able to shave a slot by going down to 3 Dret cause you don't need to return a troll, found out that having chills returning only one flayer is enough (12 dmg by chilling out, 4 dmg by flayer and 12 dmg by amalgams eot are enough).
    So i'll go back to flayer which is a bit more flexible than giant.

    About the sb, i'm not sure about the rider... maybe could be correct to turn it into the 4th contagion. Never used a trap nor a faerie but those are dedicated to specific MU that i didn't met.
    Watching the meta there i've seen tons of surgicals, some Cpriest in W decks and at least 4 people on 55 which run a full set of B leylines. No relics, no cages, maybe a couple of RiPs.

    Really feels like the deck can absorb a huge amount of extractions due to his redundancy.
    TBO i just prefer to fold to leyline instead of committing the whole SB to fight it. About FOW and blue set, i already felt a bit overcommitting before bans, right now i actually don't see how it's possible to sustain FOW with even less blue pitches.

    cya guys

  15. #1055

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    4-0 this week at one of the larger venues in the seattle area with this list:

    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Dread Return
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Ichorid
    1 Lotleth Giant
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Nether Shadow
    4 Phantasmagorian
    4 Prized Amalgam
    4 Shambling Shell
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Street Wraith
    3 Whirlpool Rider

    Sideboard:
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    4 Force of Will
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Sickening Shoal

    I did not drop a game all night and the deck felt great. Not sure if I boarded well, but the deck came through regardless.

  16. #1056
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldjsk View Post
    4-0 this week at one of the larger venues in the seattle area with this list:
    Congrats, Eli, and welcome to The Source! What were your matchups?

  17. #1057
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Congrats on the result!
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  18. #1058

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Congrats, Eli, and welcome to The Source! What were your matchups?
    Thank you it was a lot of fun! My match ups were:
    Round 1: Miracles
    Round 2: D&T with red splash
    Round 3: Temur (I think, I never actually got to see their game plan I combo'd too fast)
    Round 4: Grixis Control

  19. #1059

    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Hi all, just made the leap from goldfishing and announcing triggers to an empty room, to playing manaless (green) in paper against real people last night. Despite multiple horrible punts and lackluster play, I managed to go 2-1, and then ID to get my entry back (my reaction: ecstatic). I've seen so much skepticism of the deck's viability, but at least on a local level I'm myself somewhat skeptical of the skepticism. On any given night it seems like half the room are on some sort of "fair" blue deck, and the rest are often a bit janky or fringe.

    I lost round 1, and then both round 2 and round 3 my opponent put me on the play. It still wasn't enough to lose any game 1s, thankfully.

  20. #1060
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Why care about how others perceive your deck? You do you man. And enjoy being underestimated XD.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

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