Containment priest is on the rise imo. This is good, contagion works so proper. There wasnt alot of hate honestly, public enemy being cage and im excited to try the blue version. I love the speed of spy but im very interested in the velocity between the two.
Yeah, Priest made a few appearances last night at the local, just a regular night playing for boosters.Originally Posted by jimmythegreek
13 players turned up, went 3-2. Not a very good turn out... think the scene is fizzling around me.
Played and won against D&T, Affinity, Manaless Mirror! (Griselbrand-Green), then lost against another D&T and WB Stoneblade.
The losses were all about their discard killing my discard outlet. The mirror was comical... both players using therapy on themselves. Ha!
Counter worked well early in the night (3-0), but Í didn't get it when I needed it in the last two games (which I lost quickly to maindecked gravehate)
I played this;
4x Bridge from Below
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Dread Return
1x Flayer of the Hatebound
4x Force of Will
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
4x Narcomoeba
4x Nether Shadow
4x Phantasmagorian
3x Shambling Shell
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Street Wraith
4x Whirlpool Rider
SIDE
3x Faerie Macabre
4x Contagion
4x Disrupting Shoal
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
3x Mindbreak Trap
The Manaless mirror seems so silly to me. Whoever goes second is most likely to win, lol.
In your opinion how relevant was the blue package and would have the extra speed of spy made a difference in your matches.Yeah, Priest made a few appearances last night at the local, just a regular night playing for boosters.
13 players turned up, went 3-2. Not a very good turn out... think the scene is fizzling around me.
Played and won against D&T, Affinity, Manaless Mirror! (Griselbrand-Green), then lost against another D&T and WB Stoneblade.
The losses were all about their discard killing my discard outlet. The mirror was comical... both players using therapy on themselves. Ha!
Counter worked well early in the night (3-0), but Í didn't get it when I needed it in the last two games (which I lost quickly to maindecked gravehate)
I played this;
4x Bridge from Below
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Dread Return
1x Flayer of the Hatebound
4x Force of Will
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
4x Narcomoeba
4x Nether Shadow
4x Phantasmagorian
3x Shambling Shell
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Street Wraith
4x Whirlpool Rider
SIDE
3x Faerie Macabre
4x Contagion
4x Disrupting Shoal
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
3x Mindbreak Trap
just wondering, since the manaless version was mostly for spy. might there be some merits to having some kind of board w/ land package? or some kind of transformational board? game 1 is mostly going to win.
that being said, what might be the best transformational boards? i'm not saying it's better, but maybe it's worth some testing, if the goal is not playing spy.
-rob
edit: You could consider running lands with painters grindstone? with 4 force and 4 shoal (painter makes shoal very good), you could have a viable non graveyard-deck based combo.
Last edited by mistercakes; 05-31-2015 at 08:54 AM.
-rob
I don't find Spy to be *lightyears* faster than the blue. Both decks run Probe & Wraith afterall.
The blue package isn't lightyears ahead in terms of play either as in most game 1's you don't get any counter you can use.
In terms of how relevant the blue package is, it's a hard one to answer.
I've been rocking blue Manaless exclusively for a while now, and whilst it's my preferred option, the blue counter isn't enough to reliably win matches against concentrated, multiple and/or tutored hate. The whole party is all about Cabal Therapy with blue counter as backup until you combo out.
There are some nights where I've barely used counter all night, even when I've had it in my hand ready to go, as Cabal Therapy does all the heavy lifting. I tend to keep my counter for emergency use only BTW, think gravehate, combo blow-outs etc.
Yet there are other nights when counter has been very relevant and it's won me games I had no right to win, and many others where a counter in hand would have been handy.
The biggest weakness of running Force, is the same as that of Unmask, in that you really can't use it until you have a dredger in the yard already.
To me the main aspect of having blue counter is simply that it'll force your opponent to ask themselves, "Are they on Force?"
It's a real thing when someone plays their hand out a little more carefully (i.e. slowly), potentially opening them up to a therapy or three if they take a turn too long.
Then of course there's the whole argument about maindecking Force against Combo & Storm decks....
Relative to the matches I played on this occasion, I think I countered ~5 total. Spy's speed may have been relevant to net me an extra win here or there, but to honest I'm not sure it would have made any difference in the matches I got hated out in.
Blue version is definitely a bit less mindless. Drawing 4 with Whirlpool Rider because of a Phantasmagorian activation definitely needs to have you thinking. Worst case scenario, you'd have to cabal therapy yourself (if you find it). Yesterday I had a local event with 23 people, though I have to say the level wasn't that high. The usual suspects were there though, and I guess I'm one of them (ended 6th out of 23).
1st Round: Lands (0-2)
Match 1 (loss)
Didn's start with a FoW in my hand, but had a pretty fast start. He had a good start too, and in response to my turn 3 revived Flayer, he used Crop Rotation for Glacial Chasm... nothing I can do against that.
Match 2 (loss)
SB: boarded out 1 nether shadow, 1 cabal therapy, 1 phantasmagorian for 3 Faerie Macabre
I started without any responses in hand (I guess it happens). Turn 2 Sphere of Resistance, Maze of Ith keeping my creatures from really harming him, turn 4 Marit Lage.
2nd Round: Burn (2-0)
Match 1 (win)
I starts with Chancellor (which is great against burn), but he rift bolts anyway. H e empties his hand and gets me to 5 pretty quickly, with a Searing Blaze and Price of Progress in hand, topdeck mode. I didn't have any accelerators, but Ichorid and some zombie tokens do it right.
Match 2 (win)
I think I sided out FoW and added Balustrade Spies.
He has an amazing start with 2 Goblin Guides, but I lay it on hard with Street Wraith helping the both of us (but me a bit more), reviving a Flayer without comboing, shooting him in the next morning (upkeep) with Ichorids.
3rd Round: Goblins (2-1)
Match 1
He has a good start with piledriver, I Cabal Therapy for Rabblemaster (!?), but he shows a hand of chiefs and whatnot. I have some blockers to prevent lethal, but he has a Legion Loyalist and I'm a goner.
Match 2
I side in an extra Chancellor for a.. phantasmagorian I think. Not sure what he'd bring in.
He has a great start, but I go for money and revive a 9/9 Golgari to go with my Ichorids. With 2 early Cabal Therapies I hit 2 Goblin Ringleaders, and with enough Nether Shadows, Troll, 2 Zombie tokens and 2 Ichorids he can't block it all.
Match 3
This was hilarious. I had a Chancellor in my hand, and it turned out he... kept a Wasteland as single land with Aether Vial. I saw his anguish when I showed the Chancellor, and opportunistically called "Aether Vial" for my T3 Cabal Therapy. He didn't 'topdeck' a land before that. So much speed lost, and I comboed off not long after that peacefully.
4th Round: America/Delver (2-0)
Match 1
Terrific hand with Street Wraith, Grave-troll, Phantasmagorian, Therapy, Probe. Turn 2 Cabal Therapy, he brainstorms his FoW away, and I combo off with Whirlpool Rider, done.
Match 2
SB: -3 Chancellors, +1 FoW, +2 Disrupting Shoal (vs. whatever hate he'd put in, or to prevent a Spell Pierce from coming through, or something)
Good hand with 2 FoW, Narcomoeba, Stinkweed Imp, whatnot. He has a shitty start with T1 ponder, T2 ponder, then had 2 delvers, 2 tarmo's and something else to show for my Cabal Therapy ("Spell Pierce"). Next turn he plays a Delver and a Tarmo, seeing a 2nd Cabal Therapy in my graveyard, but I combo off the turn after.
5th round: we decide on a draw. Red version Storm. (1-1)
Match 1: I see his hand with Probe, and strip 2 lotus petals the next turn, and a Seething Song. Not much he can do after that, and I take it home without hurdles.
Match 2: He comboes off T2, I don't have counters.
Match 3: He comboes off T2, I don't have counters :D.
T8!
6th Round: (#*$&#(*$&#(*$ again I face the lands player from round 1.
Match 1
He ended up above me, and makes me play first.
He has a good start, though I counter his Crop Rotation. I have a slow start, but see his Bojuka Bog. He thinks I can't kill him yet (apparently), so he hold on to it for another turn. However with 2 Ichorids, 2 zombie tokens, and reviving a Flayer, and sacrificing it for a Dread Return on Ichorid nets me enough damage.
Match 2
Board: +3 Faerie Macabre, +3 Balustrade Spy, -3 FoW, -3 Chancellors. Tried to go full combo.
No counters in hand, I have a great start, but he has Crop Rotation for Bog. I get set back so much, I can't do anything against his Marit Lage.
Match 3
Board: -3 Chancellors, -1 Phantasmagorian, -1 Cabal Therapy, +1 FoW, +1 Disrupting Shoal, +3 Faerie Macabre. The Faerie Macabres are clutch here to get rid of recurring lands, or if he dredges down a Bog to remove it. There are some things I _need_ to counter like Sphere of Resistance & Trinisphere, what the hell.
He has a T1 Sphere of Resistance I feel I need to counter with FoW. I'm set back too much, and he has a Tabernacle -_-.
Lands counters us so much!
Hi so I’ve had most of the ingredients for this deck laying around for awhile and Saturday I picked up $0.40 worth of Whirlpool Riders so what the hell. Took a random not-overly-tuned version to my usual Monday night 12-man (my friend who plays Leyline/Helm combo told me he wasn’t gonna make it this week, get there) and anyway here’s how that all went:
Well this is new and exciting and different (8)
4 Force of Will
4 Whirlpool Rider
Dredgers (14)
4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
2 Shambling Shell
Free guys (12)
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nether Shadow
Free draw (8)
4 Street Wraith
4 Gitaxian Probe
Sac outlets (8)
4 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
Everything else (10)
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Bridge from Below
2 Flayer of the Hatebound
Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Contagion
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Ashen Rider
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
R1 – Jason
I win the die roll and opt to draw first.
“Manaless dredge,” my opponent says.
“Why would you say that?” I ask.
…
Him: Urborg, go.
Me: Keep a grip with Grave Troll, Phantasmagorian, Street Wraith, four other cards. I draw and discard Phantasmagorian so I can swap it for Grave Troll on his end step and then start dredging via Street Wraith.
Him: Dark Depths, tap this and Urborg for Vampire Hexmage, go.
Me: Do oblivious dredgy things, turn cards face up, sit there, say go.
Him: Make this 20/20 and murder you?
Me, looking up from my not-close-to-an-instant-kill dredge pile: Oh, I guess that happens.
Game two:
Him: Leyline of the Void?
Me: Fuck.
…
R2 – George
I win the die roll and opt to draw first.
“Dredge,” my opponent says.
“Why does everyone think that,” I say.
The first few turns are not very eventful, I get Gitaxian Probed and turn lots of cards face up, and eventually my opponent Intuitions for 3x Omniscience and passes to me with Island up.
At this point I have three Therapies and a Bridge in my yard.
On my turn I put out Ichorid, dredge into a Narcomoeba and decide after attacking for 3 that now is a great time to shred his hand. He Brainstorms to hide Omniscience so my first Therapy is a whiff. I then take a Show and Tell and a Dig Through Time, leaving him with Ponder and Force.
I pass to him and he draws whatever half of the combo he hid with Brainstorm, Ponders into the other half, Show and Tells out Omniscience with Force of Will still in his hand. His Show and Tell gets me a 6/6 Grave Troll.
On my turn I get Ichorid again, smash for a lot and attempt to Dread Return a Flayer, which would be lethal except I forgot he could just cast Force of Will for free because he has Omniscience on board, so it is not meant to be. On his turn he Cunning Wishes for Firemind’s Foresight and I scoop.
Game two:
Him: Grafdigger’s Cage?
Me: Force of Will.
Him: Force back?
Me: *suicide*
Store: Power’s out, go home everyone, refunds for all.
Me: Yaaay.
Racer 5: I’m 7.5% alcohol.
Me: You’re delicious.
"It possesses no intelligence, only counter-intelligence."
Hehe, it's very, very metagame dependent. If a lot of people are (still) packing Leyline of the Voids, just don't play it.
This deck is soooo good right now....no clue why more people arent playing it. Giant blue meta, cmon boys and girls get after it.
I still love the deck, but I don't play it atm despite being a blue meta. My meta is too combocentric. In general the decks you meet are: ANT, Infect, Miracles, D&T, Omnitell & Shardless BUG. Except for Miracles, these are not exactly the decks you like to meet.
How do y'all feel about the dragon spoiled from origins, Avaricious Dragon? Seems like a good dread return target that simply dredges like nobody's business.
Griselband can dredge for seven where dragon can only dredge six.....whether tthe life loss is relevant, it may be. I personally think if your gonna dread return it should ain on the spot ( see balustrade spy).
Sorry, but Avaricious Dragon seems pretty horrible. When you're at the point that you can resolve a Dread Return, it should be a game finisher on the spot, or worst case scenario, in the next turn. That dragon doesn't in any way assure that.
Also, did another run yesterday, and didn't go as well as hoped, 2-2.
2 Force of Will
3 Whirlpool Rider
1 Balustrade Spy
Dredgers (14)
4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
2 Shambling Shell
Free guys (12)
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nether Shadow
Free draw (8)
4 Street Wraith
4 Gitaxian Probe
Sac outlets (8)
4 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
Everything else (10)
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Bridge from Below
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
3 Chancellor of the Annex
Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Contagion
3 Balustrade Spy
1 Whirlpool Rider
3 Disrupting Shoal
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Force of Will
1 Shambling Shell
Blue Green Black delver 2-0
Match 1
He starts, I have a pretty delicious hand of GGT, Street Wraith, combo out T3, Cabal Therapy for FoW -> Dread Return for Whirlpool Rider, without problems.
1-0
Match 2
+2 FoW +1 Whirlpool Rider +2 Disrupting Shoal
-1 Balustrade Spy -3 Chancellor of the Annex
SB: I wanted to have something against Surgical/Grafdigger's, and since I only have Gitaxian Probe to use for Disrupting Shoal, I only boarded in 2 of them. Chancellor seemed kind of meh here since the speed run isn't that much of importance.
I start, and I make a huge mistake. I started with Narco, FoW, 2x Street Wraith and GGT in my hand. In his EOT, I use Street Wraith and in response he targets it with Surgical. And I... FoW it. He Dazes happily and I realise I should have just used another Street Wraith in response. His face just turns terribly sad when I do it anyway, and win the game in T4. I got really lucky here considering the boarded in Flusterstorms, Spell Pierces, 2x Grafdigger's Cage, Surgical...
2-0
Burn 1-2
Match 1
I go down to 5 before I finish him off. I used my Street Wraith, but I held back on a Gitaxian Probe until the turn I thought I could finish him off.
1-0
Match 2
+1 Chancellor of the Annex +3 Balustrade Spy
-2 Whirlpool Rider -2 FoW
SB: I figured the race would be of importance here... not sure here. Let me know what you think.
He mulliganed to 5 (!), and started with 1 land. I had Chancellor in hand, so he couldn't do much for then. I had a really slow start too, but called Cabal Therapy wrongly and saw his Tormod's Crypt that he drew a turn later. He blew up my graveyard, and I couldn't recover :(.
1-1
Match 3
He was way too fast. Ouch. Usually a good matchup.
1-2
Storm 2-0
Match 1
First match, I tear his hand up with a T2 Cabal Therapy on Infernal Tutor.
1-0
Match 2
+1 Chancellor of the Annex +2 FoW
-1 Balustrade Spy, -1 Phantasmagorian, -1 Nether Shadow
I tear his hand apart with 2 Cabal Therapies on Infernal Tutor and Ad Nauseum.
Enchantress 0-2
Match 1
I get no dredgers in my hand, and decide to mulligan. He tears me apart on T4 with Living Wish --> Emrakul and some Cloud Faeries.
Match 2
+3 Disrupting Shoal +1 Whirlpool Rider, +2 FoW
-1 Balustrade Spy -3 Chancellor of the Annex -1 Nether Shadow -1 Cabal Therapy
SB: honestly my Chancellors aren't going to stop him. I need Therapy for a sac outlet, but I need to counter his plentiful hatenchantments more.
I would have had him in T3 after I FoWed a T2 Rest in Peace, but he slams down Elephant Grass and Leyline of Sanctity. WTF.
Oh well, can't have it all. 3/4 times made it into the top8 with this deck now (yesterday had only a top4 though, turned out 6th), not too bad.
Balustrady Spy/Griselbrand/Whirlpool Rider flip your entire library, letting you win the game that same turn. The dragon doesn't even come close.
Nice variation on it's-big-and-green-so-can-we-Natural-Order-for-it though.
Is this the one you're talking about?
Avaricious Dragon
2RR, Creature - Dragon, Flying
At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card.
At the beginning of your end step, discard your hand.
Agreed.
Taking the undead to an unknown/new meta tonight and hopefully bash some nerds with x/u whatever decks. Will post a mediocre report when possible.
Mediocre report as promised. Played standard spy list, 13 people, four rounds of magic.
Rnd 1 : Bye
Rnd 2 : omni-show 2-0
Game one got there with beats, a therapy hitting snt and a reanimated chancellor of the annex.
Game three got really lucky with the nuts draw containning troll, street wraith, phantasmagorian and I believe probe. Ended up dredging a ton along with therapiesx3 and some creatures completely stripping his hand.
Rnd 3 : Death blade 1-1
Played against my buddy and basically the games went super long due my bridges and dread returns being extracted. Both games I faced down two shamans and jitte.
Rnd 4 : Grixis control 2-0
Game one I therapied away bolt and forked bolt leaving him with a young p.mancer, beats got there.
Game two my opponent mulled to five looking for one of two cages from his board. Another fast start from me allowed for multiple therapies leaving him again with a lone youn pyromancer. The combination of probe and therapy lead to ridiculously one sided games usually ending with too many threats on my side and no way for the opponent to answer all of them. Ended up in first good for $60 credit, deck is definetly running hot right now.
I've run a version with Dryad Arbors main and 15 lands in the board. (4 Bayou, 2 Underground Sea, 4 Verdant Catacomb, 1 Misty Rainforest, 4 Dakmor Salvage) the idea was game 2 you just do your thing until they land their hate card, then you finish them off with hardcast dredgers and junk. I would board out the difficult to cast things (Chancellors, Phantasmagorians) and the fetches could always grab Arbors if I was busy dredging successfully. I never really tested it enough because it seemed unrealistic to pick up 1000 dollars worth of lands for the sideboard of my 80 dollar deck.
To dilute this deck with lands and to hard cast dredgers......difficult to cast??? Phantasmagorian, chancellors??? I'm a little drunk and extremely lost. Out of the board and options contagion is in my opinion most valuable. Strip hand and win with combo or beats.......or vice versa, praise the dark lord that is dredge.
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