Punishing Dack Miracle

[Dia_Bot]

thank you man! you could play Stp instead one terminus and one pfire and myabe cut something else for the third one...let me know.

yesterday night i played the deck and i won against jund 2-0, brug delver 2-0 and mud 1-0

Nice results!
Yeah, I will have to see how many STP's are necessary. I'll keep you up to speed on the findings.

[Dia_Bot]

So far I in my testings tonight I went 2-0 against dredge, 2-1 against shardless BUG and 2-0 against D&T.
Punishing Fires were obviously awsome in those matchups. I've played the abovementioned list but with -1 punish fire -1 terminus for 2 STP's. Should do some testing against the legacy combo bracket to see how the deck works against these but on paper it should be doable (or at least not much worse compared to regular miracle lists)

[twndomn]

Feels like the key question is how many StP can we get away when using pFire combo:

Cloudio seems to favor 0 StP + 4 PFire + 3 Mentor. I guess Monk token(s), Jace bounce, and mass removal are enough.

I am experimenting with 1 StP + 3 PFire + 2 Snapcaster, seem to be able to get away as well. Moving to 4 PFire might be a bit... all-in for me.

Zach Mullen did play Punishing Legend Miracles back on 2013
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-SCG-Baltimore

[B88]

Mentor ihmo help us against bad MU like lands, Post or tempo decks.

[twndomn]

o...k.

I tried to went down to 1 StP, got "punished" (pun intended). Now I run:

2 StP
2 Punishing Fire
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Grove (total 22 lands with 1 Karakas)

The mana-fetching is very tricky, since Grove only provide R. I see why the Japanese guy from GP Kyoto would run a Plateau.

[jedi_gof]

Ive been testing some tonite, needs some tweaking but 5-0'ed with the following:

1 [5ED:262] Pyroblast
4 [CHK:268] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [LEB:302] Volcanic Island
2 [WWK:31] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [KTK:233] Flooded Strand
4 [ALL:42] Force of Will
1 [ZEN:211] Arid Mesa
2 [ORI:60] Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 [LRW:79] Ponder
1 [LEA:224] Swords to Plowshares
2 [VMA:247] Dack Fayden
2 [5DN:118] Engineered Explosives
1 [LEG:248] Karakas
1 [BFZ:250] Plains
3 [FUT:176] Grove of the Burnwillows
4 [CSP:31] Counterbalance
4 [MMQ:61] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN:142] Punishing Fire
3 [BFZ:255] Island
4 [AVR:38] Terminus
2 [ZEN:223] Scalding Tarn
3 [FRF:20] Monastery Mentor
2 [3ED:306] Volcanic Island
3 [3ED:304] Tundra
SB: 2 [DGM:135] Wear // Tear
SB: 1 [DKA:149] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 [CMD:46] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [ARB:8] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [ALA:10] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [ICE:278] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 [MOR:55] Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 [ALA:218] Relic of Progenitus

Beat Dredge 2-0, 2x BUG 2-0, 1x Homebrew 2-1 and 2x Mirror both 2-0.

I really like the MD, needs maybe 1 more pyroblast but otherwise happy.

Will test some more but it is a very funny miracles variant! :-D

[HNana]

Nice job going 5-0 !Do you ever have issues with having 2 of both baby jace and big jace? I used to run a bug control deck and often had a situation where i had baby jace transformed, and then I drew big jace...

I used to really like baby jace but without dig, he's not nearly as good as he used to be in legacy. =/

[jedi_gof]

Nice job going 5-0 !Do you ever have issues with having 2 of both baby jace and big jace? I used to run a bug control deck and often had a situation where i had baby jace transformed, and then I drew big jace...

I used to really like baby jace but without dig, he's not nearly as good as he used to be in legacy. =/

Baby Jace definately has pulled his weight so far. The loot is often+1 card with fire/grove or situational cards. I really like that you can loot in their turn as well, and looting just improves the top immensely. Actually in this list I think Dack is better than Jace 2.0 due to the selection he offers.
The Nonbo between the 2 jaces is a nonissue. when it comes up, you are most likely doing quite well.

I am now 10-2 so far, will update a bit more after tonight, have only made small tweaks.
Also I need to jam more games against delver variants as I have not faced many decks with early pressure and large amount of permission.

My 2 losses ive recorded so far were in the mirror (legends Miracles) and against affinity where i punted 2 games in a row due to tiredness i think. (Playing on xmage, so not a paper test yet. Will test later this week at my LGS)

[jedi_gof]

take this with a grain of salt since its Xmage im testing the deck on, but in the games i have managed to complete against a opponent who seemed to know his/her way around the legacy format, im 15-2 so far.
Should maybe have been 14-3 as an ant opponent fizzled g1 and g2, but stil very decent so far
3-1 vs miracles
3-0 vs shardless
0-1 vs Affinity
1-0 vs Dredge
1-0 vs UWR blade
1-0 vs S&T
2-0 Vs Reanimator
1-0 vs Jund
2-0 Vs ANT
1-0 vs Nic Fit

[jedi_gof]

Took the deck out for a spin at the LGS last night.
List was same as listed earlier, -1 terminus, -1 ee , +1 snapcaster, +1 pyroblast - board -1 E. canonist, -1 fluster, +1 hydroblast, +1 pyroblast

Short write-up

R1: Storm
G1: I keep top, CB, CB, Fow, something, 2x lands. His discard takes the fow, but dual CB takes the game.
G2: Longdrawn game sees him make 6 goblins and though i P.fire som of them he gets me so low he can mini-tendrils for the win.
G3: Looks alot like G1, though I set up t2 balance through ponder and use cantrips + dual MM to keep ahead.
2-1 and 1-0

R2: Imperial Painter
G1: I have flooded + basic island and his moons do nothing. Mentor beats win fast.
G2: Same outcome, though i need plenty of removal to keep him from mill winnning.
2-0 and 2-0 for the night

R3: Shardless Bug
G1 Counterbalance takes 3-4 spells before being hit by decay, by then I have gained enough CA to take it home with the mentors
G2: He doesnt see a green source untill turn 6 or so. By then it is almost over, though he puts up a fight he comes up short.
2-0 and 3-0

R4: Storm
Dont remember much other than my hands and draws are well above average and I can keep him from ever doing anything of relevance.
2-0 and 4-0

R5: Reanimator
I have him on reanimator and keep a scetchy hand of 3x Fow, 2x Jace, 1x CB and a plains on the draw. This way i can keep him of the win up to 3 times. thinking was on the draw i very likely will not have access to 2x permision on 6 cards so gambled. Luck has it he only has 1 discard spell and my first draw is a top. From there it is a few turns to land #2 but my permission is good to keep him honest, though I allow a Titan reanimation since I have terminus on top. We go on till i hit running landdrops and eventually win via mentors.
G2 he gets to reanimate t3, through my CB W/O top. It is the BW exile dude. He choose my 1 tundra since he knew i most likely was out of lands. that was correct but had the plow. 2 turns later lands start coming and I win throuch dual MMs and a couple of lucky blindflips to counter cantrips.
2-0 and 5-0 for the night, good for 1st.

Combined with my xmage record, I am 22-6 with the deck.
Jund-style/lands decks have proven the hardest and are the only MU thats proven an uphill battle. Might address that in the board going forward.

Would love to hear from other guys trying the deck out, which I call Dack Tales or Punishing MiDackles (Dack Tales being the favorite:-D)

[HNana]

Hey, I tried the deck out! Almost the exact same list as you, minus a baby jace and plus an STP (only because I sold my two nonfoil jaces at 8250 yen each, and i can't see him retaining that price, i figure i'll cash out while i can). And i run 2 pyroblasts in the board and 1 less meddling mage and relic.

The one baby jace never did anything. It showed up too late, or never showed up, or got bolted/stp/daze etc. It's not that I don't like it, it just never did anything yet. Anyways, i played it twice so far, and went 4-1-1 with it

Round 1 vs death and taxes:
Start off on the draw. I use dack fayden to steal his aether vial, uptick a counter and play my mentor with it, all while protecting my board with jace, stp etc. I barely clutch out a win. I side out pyroblast, baby jace, one of the EE, bring in swords and two wear/tear.
I drop a turn one top into a turn 2 cb. He tries to play something and i end up flipping a wear/tear. It keeps him from playing literally anything as i float it to the top. I'm able to cast a mentor and just win from that.
2-0
We also played 3 more casual games where he went first everytime and i won 3-0 in those casual (post side) games. It felt really good.

Round 2 vs 4 color delver/pyromancer
Game 1 he barely gets there before I'm able to answer with terminus.
I side out FOW and baby jace, side in pyroblasts, flusters.
Game 2 I'm able to wipe out his board and get control with pfire and jace. He makes a mistake by trying to eat my pfire with DRS, and in response, i gain a life and get it back in my hand with grove.
Game 3 he gets me down to two life before i get cb/top/pfire/jace/grove all setup. We run out of time and so we draw (my opponent took forever to think, and im playing a deck that doesn't exactly win quick). I probably would have won. No biggie.
1-0-1

Round 3 vs jeskai stoneblade
Game 1 he plays a first turn delver, i stp it. He keeps playing creatures that i kill with pfire, or terminus, and i get dack fayden out. He gets out a TNN and proceeds to waste an attack and a bolt to kill dack that turn. I have an EE on 3, so i just pop it killing his tnn after dack dies. I terminus his TNN and get mentor out and proceed to beat face in.
I side out baby jace, an EE, two fow, bring in a pyroblast, two wear/tear, and a flusterstorm.
Game 2 I get pfire/grove online early and so his delver and sfm don't really do much. I counter or terminus his TNNs and he can't deal with the lockdown.
Easy 2 games there, so many different creature removal spells meant that I wasn't having any problems dealing with his threats.
2-0-1, i end up winning by having the most points in the tourney (since i beat the only 2-0 guy).

Tourney 2:
Round 1 vs storm:
Game 1 i land a turn 2 counterbalance on the draw. My opponent resolves ad nauseum, but knowing he has two LED and a buncha cantrips etc, i was able to stop him from playing stuff even without a top (thanks to BS/ponder). He scoops after hes at two life and i reveal a punishing fire on top to stop his infernal tutor.
Side out 2 STP, 4 terminus, baby jace, a mentor, pyroblast. Side in 2 meddling mage, canonist, 3 fluster, 2 clique, and relic.
Game 2
I get top/cb online. He gets out a couple xanthid swarm, but still can't really play much. I get a meddling mage and name infernal tutor. I get a canonist too. I beat with those two, and then he dark petitions and passes the turn. Last time we played he beat me with sorin markov, and since he had 6 mana i figured that was what he was gonna go for. I drop another meddling mage naming sorin markov, pass the turn, he draws and scoops revealing the markov and saying I made the right choice.
2-0

Round 2 vs team america:
Game 1 he gets a DRS, i punishing fire it. I try to play a turn 2 CB, but he dazes it. He plays a goyf and i can't find any removal for it, so I lose in 5 turns.
I side out an EE, 4 fow. I side in stp, relic, wear/tear, and two cliques.
Game 2 I'm on the play and manage to terminus his first goyf/drs duo pretty quickly. I get control with jace, get mentor and top out, and once i play the second top, he scoops.
Game 3 He doesn't see any goyfs, he EE for two killing my counterbalance. He has a needle on top, an engineered plague on monk, and a sylvan library,but he's at 7 life thanks to pfire/grove. I end up drawing all 3 punishing fires, and hes at 6 life. I pfire him twice, he's at two. I attack with mentor, he decays it, i pfire again a third time and he doesn't have a counter.
Having 6 mana (3 volc, a grove, and 2 other) meant that i was able to go "pfire you twice, gain one, get them both back". 3 damage a turn in a grindy control match is quite amazing.
2-1

Round 3 vs dredge:
Game 1 I get jace out before he can do anything, get dack out, then i get control with mentors and get rid of all his bridges by pfire my own monk. Long grindy match but I get there.
Side out 3 fow, 3 cb, and a pyroblast. Side in 1 cage, 1 relic, 3 fluster, 1 wear/tear.
Game 2 and 3 - I don't draw any sideboard answers and I mulled to 6 both games without really seeing anything good. He has amazing hands and goes off really early, and I don't have any answers. This is probably my own fault for getting rid of one of the sideboard relics (I will not make that mistake again!).

Ended up being 2-1, which isn't terrible. The deck is really cool, dack fayden is super fun, punishing fire is amazing against delver/drs/grindy decks. If they bring in rest in peace, it really only affects pfire, and otherwise is a dead card, so I'm not even truly against that. The deck feels really good though, and I'll make some sideboard adjustments. Probably cut the canonist and something else for a second relic and a surgical extraction. My meta is heavy blue, so 3 pyroblasts has really been good. I'll try the deck a little more, I enjoy it more than traditional miracles.

[jedi_gof]

Glad to hear you are doing well with the deck.
I changed slightly in the list, but still same core.

List is now:
2 Pyroblast
4 Force of Will
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Punishing Fire

3 Monastery Mentor
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Snapcaster Mage

2 Ponder
3 Terminus
1 Council's Judgement

4 Counterbalance

1 Engineered Explosives
4 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Dack Fayden
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Arid Mesa
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Island
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand


SB
2 Wear // Tear
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Flusterstorm
3 Meddling Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pyroblast
1 Hydroblast
1 Izzet staticaster
went 4-1 yesterday at my LGS, good for 2. place and another round of store credit


R1: Storm
G1: I quickly assemble countertop, and thoguh he goes for it he comes up short. Hi hand was great happy to have beaten it.
G2: Again i assemble a quick counterbalance, but i dont have top but plenty of cantrips to increase hits. He dies not long after.
2-0, 1-0

R2: BUG Omni
G1: Assemble the combo and are able to keep him down til i hit 5 lands. I go for mentor and I almost lose to fow+fluster. I have karakas, shortly after jace too and he concedes to mentor beats
G2: He mulligans and I have too much hate. He has the bsoiju, but i put in to play karakas, and bounce his griselbrand. He reloads in response to bounce, and goes again next turn. I put in mentor, he put in onmi. i blast the omni and tob-balance counters his fow. from there it is smooth sailing.
2-0, 2-0



R3: Brave Sir Robin
G1: I get manascrewed trough 5 cantrips and active top i see only 2 lands. i have top+ terminus, but cannot for the life of me find a white source. 0-1
G2: samt story, screwed to oblivion. Really positive about the MU but sometimes your deck lays a steaming pile of poo and you are out.
0-2, 2-1

R4: Brave Sir Robin
G1: 70 cards ish same deck as last round. This time though my deck cooperates and I land a pretty convincing game 1.
G2: G2 i get punishing fire engine and cbtop up and running, and its over quickly
2-0, 3-1


R5: BG Gamekeeper homebrew
G1: I manage again to assemble topbalance. But his deck is nothing but bombs, and he gets to gamekeeper in emrakul without me being able to find either karakas, judgement or jace.
G2: My card quality is miles over his and his window I expected he would go for it in and had on a ponder kept jace as the third card and I counter his gamekeeper with my balance w/o top.
G3: He dubble-bitterblossoms, but I have dual terminus, plenty of bs/jace to put on top and also izzet staticaster. So basically i manage his tokens and end up with a nice pfire+clique kill.
2-1, 4-1 score

My total Dack Tales record is now 26-8 which is roughly 70% win rate, and I am very pleased with the deck. It might not be Tier 1, but I think it is very close.

[HNana]

Nice job on 2nd!!
I won a small legacy tourney. https://twitter.com/HBSTnipponbashi/...52216165748736

Nothing big, beat high tide, merfolk, and a enchantment opalescence home brew.

I tried it again this past weekend, lost to grixis control, beat sneak and beat dredge. Containment priest saved my ass in both matches and will not be leaving my sideboard. I could have probably won in places i lost at if I played better. I think the deck is good and any losses are attributed to my constant sloppy playing.

Anyways, my thoughts. I don't like jace as a one of, so I'd rather turn him into a snap. I dont like 2 EE, but 1 maindeck is good, so I think I'll toss in a council's judgment since my last couple game/match losses have been from TNN.

[B88]

i'm really happy to see many punishing miracle!

anyway i would suggest to
@jedi_gof: don't cut Ponder, it is the best card to find lands, without them is going to be tough! the little jace imho is not the best and useful...take a look to Snare wich is very powerful in this meta!

@HNana: good job! 4terminus, 2ee, 3pfire, 2swords are more than you need...my advice is: cut 1ee and 1terminus for business spell and another land (21 are few in a control deck with pfire)


my current list is something like this:
1 Pyroblast
4 Force of Will
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Punishing Fire
2 Spell Snare
3 Monastery Mentor
1 Snapcaster Mage

3 Ponder
3 Terminus

4 Counterbalance

4 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Dack Fayden
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Arid Mesa
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Island
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand