[PRIMER] Oozing

[Raystar]

Of course, not if you kill with it. But sometimes it'll be a straight up PImp, and you'll have it and Trisk/Devo in your hand and need to cast it to get that artifact creature in the yard, and Mongrel counts your mana and whispers in your ear: "not tonight honey, I have a headache"

The opportunity cost might be positive though for all I know, so it's probably worth testing.

I totally get what you mean

Testing is needed to check if it would be more a pain or an improvement. On the plus side it would open a couple of lines but it would be a lot more complex to deal with during the combo phase.

[Havrekjex]

Sounds good (WIld Mongrel)

But does it work? Since the Ability says 'Wild Mongrel' gets +1/+1 until the end of the turn. So I guess you can't use this ability with Ooze (right?) and does aren't +1/+1 counters which you can shoot with Triskelion, so it would be purely for combat.

When a card mentions its own name like that, it simply means "this card". When Ooze gains an ability, the ability reads "Necrotic Ooze" instead of the name of the original card. So yeah, it works fine with Ooze, just like Trisk/Devo/G-brand. But yeah, no counters, so no Trisk shooting. You simply get another "attack with Ooze and grow it" route just like with Devo, and with a card that also replaces PImp. Pretty nifty.

[pandaman]

"not tonight honey, I have a headache"

I lost it at this, well played.

The fact that it's a (significantly weaker) alternative to Devourer makes it worth serious testing. But do you guys lose Devourer often enough to need an alternative?

[Dziga Murnau]

Guys, if you are not concerned about mana, then Psychatog is better. You draw 14, discard 14, remove 16-18 and get 26/26 or 27/27 Ooze.
I always liked Imp, because he gives Ooze flying.

[Raystar]

Guys, if you are not concerned about mana, then Psychatog is better. You draw 14, discard 14, remove 16-18 and get 26/26 or 27/27 Ooze.
I always liked Imp, because he gives Ooze flying.

You are actually very right...why didn't I think of Psychatog...

I also like Imp and I'm pretty sure he is the best at what it does, I'm just always trying to give an additional edge to the deck.

@Panda: No, I generally don't have a problem with losing the Devourer (I mean it almost never happen), I was only giving some breathing space to my paranoia

[Xod]

Same reasoning, dump him in the grave and use his ability. Might indeed be handier than Mongrel (but costs more, if it does matter)

But like Pandaman said: do you lose the devourer that much? I know I don't have much experience yet, but I lost him now once in 11 games. Where it would make a difference if I had a second backup, but probably it would have been too late. (was locked out at that point and Trisk/Devo/Ooze were exiled, but still had Oozes and Grissel in library, but very few means to keep them on the board)

On the other hand, I won in those 11 a couple of times because I could cast PImp and dumb my combo pieces in the grave. So the option of an alternative victory might sound good, but the power of Imp is difficult to surpass. PImp helps you go off more than Mogrel or Tog (I think)

[Dziga Murnau]

You are actually very right...why didn't I think of Psychatog...

The funny thing is that you can remove Psychatog itself for activating his own ability granted to Ooze. Also, in long games he can be a good giant blocker (at least able to help you survive some turns) through eating unnecessary cards in graveyard.

[Havrekjex]

I never risk losing Devo unless I'm desperate because I'm about to lose. When that happens, I rarely have the time or the resources to start reaching for the second one.

A two mana PImp replacement can cost you that extra mana you don't have to combo off when you need to hardcast it, put things in the yard and sac it to a Therapy. Every single mana counts, remember that we're a Lotus Petal deck. The upside must be huge. A three mana PImp replacement would have to be a different beast altogether, and will not do everything PImp does solely because of its mana coat. Maybe run Psychatog in addition to PImp for both PImp and pseudo-Devo redundancy? PIn_Vic doesn't run PImp at all, and he has good results, so maybe we don't 100% certainly need a one mana discard creature? I find it hard to imagine running this deck without the little guy, but it has been done.

...now I find myself wanting to run Psychatog because it's so damn cool. I mean it's Psychatog, I would love to see that weird ass thing find a new home after all these years. But I don't see myself replacing PImp, the card is just so efficient.

[Xod]

I was thinking the same thing, maybe replacing the 3rd Ooze with a Psychatog.

About playing without the Imp, in most of my games that I played I went off without ever needing Imp, but he can rescue you in a pinch, or make you go off a half turn earlier.

[Dziga Murnau]

Psychatog can be viewed as a playing deck keeper. At least I found a proper deck keeper for the Ozzing thanks to Raystar idea (it's much better than boring Mox Jet). Gonna play it there no matter what.
BtW, have you seen modern art for Tog? It's ugly and humiliating. Some Tog haters painted it.

[Havrekjex]

Psychatog can be viewed as a playing deck keeper. At least I found a proper deck keeper for the Ozzing thanks to Raystar idea (it's much better than boring Mox Jet). Gonna play it there no matter what.
BtW, have you seen modern art for Tog? It's ugly and humiliating. Some Tog haters painted it.

What do you mean by "deck keeper"? And... Mox Jet, what? You're not making too much sense here.

Agree about the art, though you can't replace the old art no matter what. It's too iconic. Thankfully only the old art exists on paper.

[pandaman]

Given that the DTB at the moment are Miracles, ANT, Shardless BUG, and BUG Delver, and Grixis Delver, is Thoughtseize or Duress better in the sideboard? I would like two or three discard spells for the ANT matchup, but it would be nice if they were also relevant in other matchups. What do you guys think? I always lean towards Thoughtseize because you can hit creature spells and use it on yourself to discard combo pieces, but Duress doesn't cost you life, which is relevant in the BUG and Grixis matchups. My proposed Board for this meta is:

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Reverent Silence
2 Massacre
3 Ground Seal
2 Thoughtseize/Duress
2 Exhume

[pandaman]

Just played my first match with Oozing on MODO. With Phyrexian Devourer and Triskelion in the graveyard, Necrotic Ooze only had Devourer's ability (not Triskelion's) and when Ooze's Devourer ability resolved it didn't give the Ooze counters. Odd. Anyone else had that problem?

[Havrekjex]

Sideboard looks perfect, I'll run the same thing except for maybe an Iona and my bucket list Helm of Obedience (just need to do that once), and with those deviations, yours is most likely better. I never had that problem online, try again. Modo is such an infuriating heap of junk.

[pandaman]

I think the sideboard I posted is as focused as it can be on beating the decks you expect a lot of. I just restarted my computer and tried MODO again, still the same problem with Necrotic Ooze. I was really looking forward to playing tonight's Legacy Daily, too. I'm sure people won't concede to me if I get the combo and explain the bug so it's not really worth it.

[Raystar]

I think the sideboard I posted is as focused as it can be on beating the decks you expect a lot of. I just restarted my computer and tried MODO again, still the same problem with Necrotic Ooze. I was really looking forward to playing tonight's Legacy Daily, too. I'm sure people won't concede to me if I get the combo and explain the bug so it's not really worth it.

Very weird mate, I have just tried and mine is working fine...did you try to contact support?

Your sideboard looks very good and very streamlined.

[pandaman]

Only playing heads up tournament practice I've played more rounds than I've played in real life in the last month. MODO is good that way, I'll admit. And I'm getting better with the interface and not making mistakes.

The Miracles sideboard got a workout tonight. I won against Miracles 2-0. Game 1 I probed him on the play and saw no FoW so I reanimated Ooze with a Griselbrand in the yard T2. Game 2 he gets CB/Top but I make him burn a force of a Reverent Silence so I can use my Abrupt Decay to clear it and get ready to combo. He gets another CB, but only has three mana open while it's on the stack, so I Dark Ritual into double Shallow Grave with Griselbrand in the graveyard so he can't get both with Snare into SCM+Snare. I draw 14 in his turn, lose Griselbrand at the end, and find a Reverent Silence for the CB to go off next turn. He has Supreme Verdict for it! But he's out of mana and I don't need to resolve another 4CMC spell to win.

I like the sideboard. I went -2 Probe -1 Mox -1 Buried Alive -1 Ooze -1 Reanimate +3 Decay +3 Silence +1 Thoughtseize. Should I take Reanimate out against CB for Exhume? I don't like giving them back SCMs/Cliques from the yard, so my first thought is no. What do you guys think?

[Havrekjex]

I like the sideboard. I went -2 Probe -1 Mox -1 Buried Alive -1 Ooze -1 Reanimate +3 Decay +3 Silence +1 Thoughtseize. Should I take Reanimate out against CB for Exhume? I don't like giving them back SCMs/Cliques from the yard, so my first thought is no. What do you guys think?

I always swap them for that slight chance of getting to play it through a CB, but I can see how it can backfire. I don`t think I`ve ever seen Tiago in Miracles, and Clique only in small numbers, and… wait, what are those creatures doing in the yard anyway? Don`t we have to save our Decays for CB?

[Raystar]

I always swap them for that slight chance of getting to play it through a CB, but I can see how it can backfire. I don`t think I`ve ever seen Tiago in Miracles, and Clique only in small numbers, and… wait, what are those creatures doing in the yard anyway? Don`t we have to save our Decays for CB?

I stopped doing it some time ago, it didn't change much...I tested online a lot and I couldn't see any difference.

[pandaman]

I always swap them for that slight chance of getting to play it through a CB, but I can see how it can backfire. I don`t think I`ve ever seen Tiago in Miracles, and Clique only in small numbers, and… wait, what are those creatures doing in the yard anyway? Don`t we have to save our Decays for CB?

I see a few Snapcaster Mages and Cliques in Miracles, especially postboard, when they can bring in three Clique along with three Flusterstorm. They usually get there when I hit a hand with discard that doesn't have counterspells or other hate cards in it, but I admit the probability is low. I like Reanimate because it's one mana less and that is incredible valuable when trying to combo out before CB has hit the table, but Exhume doesn't seem to be much more useful in the late game (apart from the no life loss) because you're probably not resolving a 2CMC spell through CB anyway and you have to kill it first to proceed. Maybe I take one Reanimate out and put one Exhume in. That sounds like a good compromise.

So then the sideboard would be:

-2 Probe
-1 Reanimate
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Ooze
-1 Buried Alive

+3 Abrupt Decay
+3 Reverent Silence
+1 Exhume

and you could add some Thoughtseize in place of other stuff if you felt like it. But I think that's pretty good.

Another discussion I wanted to have is whether we should start considering boarding out Putrid Imp. And if so, when. There are Oozers who don't play it, but I just boarded it out twice and both times I had a combo piece in hand that I had to get rid of another way when I could have just included PImp in my Buried Alive selection and not had to spend another mana. So that's what has always worried me about leaving it out. But I admit that boarding it out would free up another very important slot for sideboard tech.

Decks I think we could get away with boarding it out against are: Chalice decks, Miracles, and other slow decks. Fast decks don't give you the spare mana (or time) to mess around so I would leave it in.