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Thread: [PRIMER] Oozing

  1. #41
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by Karhumies View Post
    The cards I might try out from the Modern Ooze deck in Legacy would be Soul Spike and Fury of the Horde. However, those cards are win-more because they require a Griselbrand to function. They can be run in Modern because the Modern format lacks Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, etc. decent filtering effects and something has to be included to get up to 60 cards.
    I agree. The way the combo pan out in Oozing allows for a lot of alternative path to be followed; in order to be able to have that flexibility you basically need to be able to cast every card of your deck and have enough selection capability to switch from plan A to plan B. I like the modern combo version but I feel there is little space for it in Legacy, it gives me the impression that you are a bit too much on a single plan.

    Thanks for the hint, though. It is always good to try to innovate.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oozing HQ: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-PRIMER-Oozing
    Oozing videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48...fHPTElBw53lkhg

  2. #42
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Changing topic a bit...I had an epic match yesterday night on MODO against UR Landstill, I'll publish the recorded game tonight. The highlight of the game is PImp beating under standstill forcing him to break it and closing the game casting ooze and entombing ALL the pieces of the combo through PImp after drawing half deck with Griselbrand and having lethal against on the board :)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oozing HQ: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-PRIMER-Oozing
    Oozing videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48...fHPTElBw53lkhg

  3. #43

    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Hi I'm new here and thinking of building this deck.
    I already play DnT, but i want something completely different.

    I played Raystar on modo a couple of days ago (not the DnT player from the uploaded movies).
    and thats when he told me about this thread.

    what about playing a mox diamond instead of a chrome mox?
    usualy when you draw with griselbrand you already play your land for that turn.

  4. #44
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinky View Post
    Hi I'm new here and thinking of building this deck.
    I already play DnT, but i want something completely different.

    I played Raystar on modo a couple of days ago (not the DnT player from the uploaded movies).
    and thats when he told me about this thread.

    what about playing a mox diamond instead of a chrome mox?
    usualy when you draw with griselbrand you already play your land for that turn.
    Hey Kinky, I'm happy you liked the deck :)

    The problem with the Mox Diamond is that it is slightly more difficult to cast if you have it in hand before going off with Griselbrand. The deck is a lot more dense in spell than lands and you may need all of your land drops. That said, I tried to build the deck on acceleration based on the Nic Fit package some time ago (yes, I'm crazy) and I was fitting a Mox Diamond in that case because of the higher density of lands.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oozing HQ: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-PRIMER-Oozing
    Oozing videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48...fHPTElBw53lkhg

  5. #45

    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    What Raystar said. Post-Griselbrand, we get enough uncastables to feed the Chrome Mox. Diamond would be marginally better I guess but after drawing 7-14-21 cards it's win-more.

    Pre-combo against tax counters we need the lands. If the opponent gets 2 for 1 by destroying our Mox, with Chrome Mox at least we still have the land for next turn instead of having cantrip for a land. Remember, to hardcast Ooze this deck will actually want to reach 4 lands consistently even though it's a fast combo deck at heart.

  6. #46
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Oozing against Esper Thopter Foundry...

    G1: I'm very lucky, I go for it and he doesn't have/find a StP for my Ooze
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shn6EDWnhHQ

    G2: Less lucky :) I don't find any removal for his Grafdigger's Cage, nor a Ooze...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyY8gitRRt4

    G3: Oozing oozes...I win through: 3 FoW, 1 Cage, 1 StP
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG_bdqrHtDE


    I'm adding the videos to the Matchups section of the Primer.

    For the record, I'm 79-49 with Oozing on MTGO
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oozing HQ: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-PRIMER-Oozing
    Oozing videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48...fHPTElBw53lkhg

  7. #47
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Good record keeping Raystar. Have you been keeping a record of what your win/loss in particular matchups are? For example, low against Miracles but high against D&T?

  8. #48
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    Good record keeping Raystar. Have you been keeping a record of what your win/loss in particular matchups are? For example, low against Miracles but high against D&T?
    Correct. I'll try and put together some stats today.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oozing HQ: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-PRIMER-Oozing
    Oozing videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48...fHPTElBw53lkhg

  9. #49
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    No hurry. It's the night before the Big Legacy event and I'm thinking more and more about the second Iona. There are gonna be two Burn decks, as well as possibly three Elves decks and three OmniTell decks.

  10. #50
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    No hurry. It's the night before the Big Legacy event and I'm thinking more and more about the second Iona. There are gonna be two Burn decks, as well as possibly three Elves decks and three OmniTell decks.
    Iona is game over in all of them, but you really need the second only against Omnitell.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oozing HQ: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-PRIMER-Oozing
    Oozing videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48...fHPTElBw53lkhg

  11. #51
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    I think I stay with one then.

  12. #52
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    I reviewed all the matches I played and broke out the matchups, the current table is:



    It is evident that the worst matchups are blue based. Please note the following:

    • I'm not an exceptional players and many matches are lost to my poor skills
    • When I started to play on MTGO (and I started with Oozing) I lost some games due to not being proficient with the interface
    • The Oozing list has evolved and some matchups have improved


    Even if I played many games the statistical sample is still too small, please use the Win% with a grain of salt.

    I'll keep the list updated while I play.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oozing HQ: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-PRIMER-Oozing
    Oozing videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48...fHPTElBw53lkhg

  13. #53
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Ended up 3-2 missing T8 on resistance. It wasn't a good day, despite the winning record.

    Lost R1 to Mono U Merfolk. First game kept a Swamp Ponder hand that needed one more combo piece. Petal into Ponder finds me the missing piece but the second mana source doesn't come for me (EV for the play was there).

    G2 T1 Therapy FoW into Petal Rit Entomb and Shallow Grave Griz into reanimated Iona on Blue. Scoop.

    G3 I have T1 on the draw (BA +Reanimate) but he has Island Cursecatcher. And then Phantasmal on cursecatcher. Eventually I assemble enough to play around them plus Daze, leaving FoW as his only out to stop me. He has it. I have a turn to top deck a reanimate spell but miss.

    R2 Bye, so still in it.

    R3 against BUG Delver. G1 on the draw kept a strange hand: USea USea Ooze x 2 and Buried Alive x 3. He came out with a Deathrite Shaman T1 into a Thoughtseize T2, and took a Necrotic Ooze. He played another Delver and a Tarmogoyf and started beating, but I drew two more lands during that time and after clearing the way with Therapy, cast Ooze and Buried Alive for the combo in successive turns. Double Deathrite does nothing against that, of course, so we're off to the second game.

    G2 he plays Delver T1, Brainstorms to flip it T2 revealing Thoughtseize, plays a second Delver T2, flips on T3 to a Hymn to Tourach, and then Thoughtseizes and Hyms me while beating for six per turn. I'd played out a few lands and a Petal and had two Abrupt Decay, Buried Alive, Dark Ritual, and Entomb in hand after cantripping unsuccessfully for the other piece of the combo. I Decay a Delver to slow him down before losing all but my Dark Ritual to Thoughtseize and Hymn. Knock on the top of my deck, Buried Alive, which I use to get the combo. He plays and blind flips another Delver. Great, now I have two turns. Knock on the top of my deck, Ponder. Ponder into Exhume. Pass the turn, go to 3, then Exhume with enough to play around Daze. He brainstorms for the FoW but doesn't find it. 2-0 against one of the harder matchups.

    R4 v BUG Control. This guy knows my deck backwards, we test a lot together. G1 on the play, and at the end of his T3 I Entomb a Griselbrand. He activates Deathrite on it (i.e. he's got a counter for any Shallow Grave I have) but I Shallow Grave anyway, because I've seen his hand and I know he must have Decay, Decay, FoW, Blue card (which he does) and I have an Ooze and Buried Alive in my hand. He counters the Shallow, I untap and cast Ooze to no resistance. Next turn Buried Alive and he hasn't drawn the counter. G2 he leads with Pithing Needle on Ooze. It's a one-of in his board. Great. I can't find a Decay and die. T3 on the play, I keep a hand with potential but no Decay. T1 Pithing Needle naming Ooze. IT'S A ONE OF IN HIS SIDEBOARD. I can't find Black mana or Green mana for the Decay I find and die. Major mana screw in G3, had to discard for four successive turns.

    So at 2-2 I'm paired down and my opponent kindly scoops to me. We played it anyway - she was on Esper Standstill - and she beat me 2-1. Miss Top 8 on resistance, coming 10th.

    So all in all I only really won one round all day, but the concession and bye make my record look positive. You'll note that all of the matchups were against Blue. This mirrors Raystar's findings that Blue is the difficult colour and the deck romps over anything else.

    List was:

    2 Swamp
    1 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Bayou
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Chrome Mox

    3 Necrotic Ooze
    1 Griselbrand
    1 Phyrexian Devourer
    1 Triskelion
    1 Putrid Imp

    4 Entomb
    3 Buried Alive

    4 Shallow Grave
    2 Reanimate
    1 Exhume

    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Cabal Therapy

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    Sideboard (15)

    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Reverent Silence
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Exhume
    2 Massacre
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Necrotic Ooze

    Boarding was as posted earlier.

    Sorry I couldn't rep the deck better, guys :(
    Last edited by pandaman; 05-17-2015 at 04:57 AM.

  14. #54
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Don't worry, I got you covered. I just came back from an event; I finished the event in second place. My list was the list in the primer; my 15th Sideboard slot was a Pithing Needle.

    Round 1 I played against Dragon Stompy. Game 1 my opponent casts Thundermaw Hellkite on Turn 1 and Magus of the Moon on Turn 2. I had basics but I couldn't assemble the kill before I died. Game 2 my opponent plays Chalice on 1 (it has been a loooong time since I have been in a tournament and not lost to Chalice at least once), but I can still win. I did something to bin a creature, my opponent says "Oh, you're Reanimator?" and promptly Chalices for 2 on his next turn. I conceded a little prematurely because I could have still drawn and cast an Ooze, but looking at my next draws it wasn't going to happen.

    Round 2 I played against some sort of weird green deck. My opponent goes Turn 1 Forest, Deathrite Shaman. I recall my opponent casting Natural Order for Terastodon in this game, destroying three of his lands, and then I just comboed out because he had to tap his Deathrite to do it. In the next game my opponent casts Turn 1 Cage. Deal. I Probe my opponent to see 2 Chrome Mox, a Natural Order, another green card, and another Cage. I made him discard his second Cage because I had an Abrupt Decay and the combo in hand, but in hindsight that was wrong not only because I also had the ability to just cast an Ooze and Buried Alive for the other pieces, but also because if he drew another mana he could Natural Order for Terastodon, destroy my lands, and then I couldn't do anything. But what actually happened was that he Natural Ordered for Progenitus, and he found out that 10/10 Pro Everything doesn't beat an arbitrarily large Ooze.

    Round 3 I played against Mono Black. I don't recall the games well, but he had Deathrite in his deck and no green mana to activate it for my creatures so he died pretty handily. (Sidenote: None of us knew what Phyrexian Devourer's Japanese name was, so for the rest of my rounds we called it the Phyrexian Rice Ball because it's shaped like one.)

    Round 4 I played against Punishing Jund. Game 1 he plays Turn 1 Forest, Deathrite Shaman. I draw Dark Ritual for my turn to kill him on Turn 1. I thought he was Elves so I sideboarded accordingly. He mulligans to 4 and it just doesn't fucking matter because he has lots of varied hate so I can't kill him normally, and I draw at least half of my lands and never draw Ooze. I never put anything in my graveyard this game, but my opponent ended this game with Rakdos Charm and Extirpate in hand, with Scavenging Ooze in play and I saw at least one Pithing Needle and a Grafdigger's Cage when he was shuffling. Yeesh. Game 3 I draw just as many lands, my opponent draws Extirpate, and I'm just trying to find an Ooze so I can cast it and make it big. I draw Griselbrand and cast it. I leave it back as a wall for my opponent's Tarmogoyfs and stuff for one turn, and that was a mistake because my opponent drew Liliana (which I figured there was no way he had room for it given all of the ridiculous hate I had already seen).

    Round 5 I play against Deathblade. Game 1 I sodomize him with an Ooze attack. using Dark Ritual to pay for the Spell Pierce I knew my opponent had. Game two my opponent makes me discard Entomb. I Blind Therapy for Rest in Peace on my first turn to see that my opponent has Brainstorm, 2 Swords to Plowshares, 2 Deathrite Shaman. My opponent plays both of his Deathrite Shamans and also gets a Stoneforge Mystic down. I go to Massacre but he Brainstorms into a Force and a blue card. Deathrites chip at my life total slowly, and I find a Cabal Therapy to strip the Swords to Plowshares away. The final turns of the game goes like this: I cast a Necrotic Ooze with Dark Ritual. I cast Entomb for Phyrexian Devourer, and end my turn. My opponent activates Deathrite to remove Devourer. I use the ability on Devourer to add 23 counters to my Ooze. My opponent untaps and attacks with Batterskull and a Stoneforge Mystic with Sword of Fire and Ice attached. I eat Stoneforge. I untap and Buried Alive for Triskelion and deal my opponent enough damage to kill him.

    I'm 3-2, which barely gets me into the Top 8.

    I play against Death and Taxes in the Quarterfinals. My opponent mulligans, and their opening hand is Mother of Runes, Phyrexian Revoker, and lands. I cast a Turn one Ooze and just hope my opponent doesn't draw Swords. Swords is his next draw, basically. I messed this game up, and here's how: My opponent has Spirit of the Labyrinth, two Mother of Runes, and a Phyrexian Revoker in play. I reanimate a Triskelion, kill off the Spirit, then cast Ponder. Ponder finds my second Reanimate so I use another counter to kill Revoker and I Reanimate it going to 6 life and I name Mother of Runes. My opponent topdecks Stoneforge Mystic for Jitte and the Jitte ruins me. I could have named cards other than Mother of Runes because 1/1s don't matter, or I could have just not reanimated the Revoker because Triskelion was big enough to deter attacks and I could have just reanimated it again when it died--but I didn't do those things. Luckily, I got a Turn 1 Kill in the next game. I messed this game up too though--I had Shallow Graved a Griselbrand and drew the whole Ooze Combo in my first 7, but I dealt my opponent the full 20 with Triskelion's ability instead of attacking with Griselbrand, and somewhere between the 13th and 20th counters I put on my Ooze I basically revealed every sideboard card I brought in. Game 3 was really messed up. My opponent played a Spirit of the Labyrinth and a Stoneforge Mystic getting a Jitte. I use Dark Ritual to hardcast Triskelion, kill the Spirit, deal 1 to the Mystic, and 1 to the Triskelion to kill it, and then I reanimate it to deal lethal damage to the Mystic. At this point my opponent has Serra Avenger and Flickerwisp in hand, but his lands are two Wastelands and a Karakas so he uses his mana to Waste my duals. It doesn't matter at all--3/3 Triskelion deals the full 20, and I even had two Shallow Graves in hand to get more value out of it if he ever drew Swords. He was basically never sticking a creature in that game either way.

    I play against the same Jund player in the Semifinals. This guy is literally shitting himself at the idea of playing against me again, which is absurd to me because he has already beaten me after mulliganning to 4, and I reiterate: his deck has Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, Grafdigger's Cage, Pithing Needle, Extirpate and Rakdos Charm after board. Game one I mulligan to six to a hand that can cast a Turn 1 Ooze. I'm 8th seed though, so my opponent Thoughtseizes me. My next two draws are Ooze (I cast it), and Entomb for Devourer. My luck is strong. Game 2, my opponent opens on Forest, Deathrite again, but he gets impatient and dies to a Shallow Graved Griselbrand when he feels compelled to use the Deathrite for mana to stick a threat instead of giving me infinite time to stick an Ooze.

    In the Finals, I play against Soldier Stompy. My opponent plays turn on Chalice on 1, and I am unperturbed because I have Buried Alive and Shallow Grave in hand, but on the turn before I'm able to cast Shallow Grave, my opponent topdecks Suppression Field. Game 2 I get caught with Surpression Field and Thorn of Amethyst. I have an Ooze in play with a Griselbrand in the graveyard, with three lands and I'm facing down a Captain of the Watch and an Enlistment Officer. I untap, pay 2 to use Griselbrand's ability, but I fail to hit a Massacre nor a Reverent Silence so I die.

    So the deck did much better than I expected--to be honest, I wasn't expecting much, I just wanted to switch things up because they know I'm the combo guy so I have to keep them guessing somehow. That being said, I was blown away by how many times my opponent had graveyard hate and I could just opt to not give a damn because the deck can cast Necrotic Ooze. I lost to an opponent with a metric ton of hate, but if I just hadn't drawn five land in a row he was still completely dead.

  15. #55
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Woohoo! Great report. Especially loving the Triskelion tricks. We're all getting better at them. I enjoy that look on the opponent's face when they lose their creatures to the artifact menace. It's worth mentioning that Jund is now very well equipped to deal with combo post-board, especially graveyard decks. You have to be very careful.

  16. #56
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    You guys rock!!

    I'm thinking to try the following SB:

    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Reverent Silence
    2 Massacre
    2 Exhume
    1 Thoughseize/Duress
    2 Surgical Extraction
    3 Desecrator Demon

    It's not going to help against Miracle and not having Iona will make us a bit weaker against some matchup but the 3 demons should improve our matchup against tempo (RUG and BUG) immensely. Between other things the demons are pretty cheap on MODO so I can test right away
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oozing HQ: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-PRIMER-Oozing
    Oozing videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48...fHPTElBw53lkhg

  17. #57
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    I'm keeping an updated table of the matchups I make on MODO in the initial page.

    If you want we could put together another table with the tournament results similar to that one, I only need for you to provide me the data points to create it (list of played matchups+results).
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oozing HQ: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-PRIMER-Oozing
    Oozing videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48...fHPTElBw53lkhg

  18. #58

    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Sorry for asking again (you've wrote a little about this subject in the primer) but what are the benefits of running this over traditional Reanimator? You lose FoW and seem to need way more pieces in the gy. Not trying to be condescending, as I'm sure you have played UB Reanimator, and by reading your posts it leads me to beleive you're not investing your time into the deck because it's your pet deck, but like the creators of TinFins beleive you're onto something better.

  19. #59
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    I'd just answer your question by referring to the primer. Reanimator can't beat an active Deathrite Shaman without finding Pithing Needle or bouncing it. Oozing can. Same with Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, or Nihil Spellbomb. Also, when Reanimator reanimates a creature, it doesn't win the game. Oozing does. Reanimator has no instant speed reanimation, unlike, Oozing, making it a more predictable deck.

  20. #60

    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    I'd just answer your question by referring to the primer. Reanimator can't beat an active Deathrite Shaman without finding Pithing Needle or bouncing it. Oozing can. Same with Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, or Nihil Spellbomb. Also, when Reanimator reanimates a creature, it doesn't win the game. Oozing does. Reanimator has no instant speed reanimation, unlike, Oozing, making it a more predictable deck.
    Ooze Pros
    - The combo is far more resilient to graveyard hate (Can combo off through Tormod's Crypt, Relic, Extraction, DRS, Cage etc)
    - Can hardcast a 4/3 and attack/block with it
    - Flexibility of Instant-Speed reanimate spells
    - Instantly win upon reanimation (You don't have to worry about your opponent comboing off on their turn or Liliana eating your guy or your fatty getting Karakas-bounced)

    Ooze Cons
    - Slow (Needs multiple specific pieces in the graveyard to combo, so while Reanimator can play a higher density of threats (4 Griselbrand + Iona + Elesh + Whatever) and bin them for U with careful study, Ooze often needs to set up by paying 2B for Buried Alive) (This is somewhat offset by the fact that you play rituals and Reanimator doesn't).
    - No counterspells (This is less important when you can win the game on the spot but still obviously worth mentioning)
    - No "Silver Bullet" reanimate targets (although most people are playing a couple of them in Ooze as a sort of transformational sideboard: normally they are not good when put into play with Shallow Grave)

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