Best hate vs. Omnitell?

[Valtrix]

Anyway, you say that there's no single card you can hate out, and then immediately follow it up by stating the single card that you can hate out.

You misunderstood what I wrote. I said you can't play a single card to hate their whole strategy out (except counterspells of course, but this always goes without saying), not that you can't target a specific card of theirs to hate out.

[iamajellydonut]

You misunderstood what I wrote. I said you can't play a single card to hate their whole strategy out (except counterspells of course, but this always goes without saying), not that you can't target a specific card of theirs to hate out.

Fair enough, but I still don't see how this makes OmniShow so unique. Again, you can't play a single card against Elves or ANT and expect it to win the war.

[Kanti]

This falls under the same category of "win through ETB triggers".

Anyway, you say that there's no single card you can hate out, and then immediately follow it up by stating the single card that you can hate out. Force of Will. Surgical Extraction. Counterbalance floating something 3cc. Tier 2 options of Slaughter Games and Iona. All of those shit on Show and Tell and completely prevent them from winning. Then there's things that deal with Omniscience like Thalia.

But of course it's hard to hate out. What combo deck isn't hard to hate out? There's a reason why people play OmniShow and ANT and Elves instead of shit like Belcher.

It definately is harder to hate out than ANT or Elves, and I think that's the issue. There's nothing wrong with being the best, but damn have I found Omnitell to be extremely strong, to the point that it's made me a little bitter when I pick up TES or High Tide and think how I could just be jamming an A+B combo.

Going 1-for-1 with counters against a deck running DTT is going to end up terribly for you, especially if you used a FoW along the way. They SnT, you counter it, then they cast DTT and do it all over again. Or they have the combo in hand but no protection and cast DTT, obviously fetching some combination of Force+Flusterstorm. You can Force the DTT, but now leave yourself open to the eventual SnT. This is opposed to the feeling you get when you manage to counter a tutor after your opponent has cracked LED and Mind Twisted himself. In that situation you pretty much just win, whereas against Omni you've got 1 part of their A+B combo out of their hand. Counters really shoudn't count as a form of "hate", and I don't consider them as such, unless they are being used as narrow answers from the sb like Mindbreak Trap or Envelop. I would constitute those as hate, as you are bringing them in to "hate" on specific decks. FoW is just a general a general utility spell.

Surgical Extraction is great, but only when paired with counters/discard. For decks not running discard it get's a lot worse, as you have to wait for them to cast a Show and Tell and counter it before you get a chance to Extract it, and by that time they can protect their graveyard with DTT. Extracting DTT is a good option, and one that I've taken before to great effect, but it doesn't stop your opponent as he can still just search up a Cunning Wish and get you. Extracting CWish is obviously hard, and you could still get chained DTT>Emrakul.

Counterbalance is the best option as it's actually a lock, and you are running auxilliary counterspells. This for me isn't an example of one card beating the deck, but rather the pile of 75. I do agree though that in any deck that could support it a resolved CBalance is probably the most problematic for SnT, but what combo deck coudn't you say that about? And 3cc is a lot harder to find that 2cc (BWish, Infernal Tutor).

If I resolve a Rule of Law against ANT and they don't deal with it, well I win. Not the case against Omnitell. I also feel like Thalia/Sphere effects are stronger against Storm as they prevent you from generating storm, whereas in Omnitell you just have to pass the turn and untap and pay the Thalia tax 3-4 times so you can get a Wish, fetch the ECall, and win with Emrakul. Elves is crippled by a lot of other things too, common combo hate cards like Chalice of the Void, or creature-horde hate like Electrickery or Deed, that just don't touch effect Omnitell. Omnitell is just a bitch of a deck.

[ScottW]

What about Krosan Grip?

Question: would you have priority to Krosan Grip the Omniscience after it was played with Show and Tell - obviously before they start going off or cast a 15/15? What would you say - "upon resolution"?

[sjmcc13]

Question: would you have priority to Krosan Grip the Omniscience after it was played with Show and Tell - obviously before they start going off or cast a 15/15? What would you say - "upon resolution"?

If something triggered by the resolution of S&T. If nothing triggers, then they get priority, and can start comboing off/cast Emrakul. Grip might be able to interrupt this, and it might just buy you a turn.
If something triggers, and they do not have a trickbind in hand then you will get priority at least once before they can cast a non-instant.

[KobeBryan]

What about Krosan Grip?

Question: would you have priority to Krosan Grip the Omniscience after it was played with Show and Tell - obviously before they start going off or cast a 15/15? What would you say - "upon resolution"?

Not the best

If he shows Omni,

He will retain priority if nothing is on the stack. If he proceeds ot play something like cunning wish, you will get priority for Grip.

However, if Omni resolves, and nothing is on the stack at that point, he will retain priorty and have his emmy.

[porcupinetreeman]

I've had luck beating it with MUD lately, been running 4 Trinisphere and 4 Lodestone Main, plus 4 Thorn and 2 Spine SB.

[ScottW]

@sjmcc13 & KobeBryan
Thanks. I always get confused with questions related to priority.

[ironclad8690]

The most important things you can have access to are Thalia, Mother of Runes, and post-board Ethersworn Canonist (however in the online meta this guy is becoming maindeckable). Gaddock Teeg and or Cavern of Souls help, but are by no means necessary. Aether Vial helps your important dudes not get countered. Sword of Fire and Ice is great at protecting your dudes from bounce as well as pressuring their life total. Port + Thalia can actually go a good distance in many games.

[Fatal]

Teeg isn't so great vs Omni it does stop only DTT, all wincon routes are available under it. SoFI isn't great since under cunning wish they have slaughter pact which is black. Best hatebear here is still a Ethersworn Canonist connected with enchantment removal.