MTGO discussion

[Julian23]

When this was last discussed on a somewhat broader scale, some programmer mentioned that MTGO is built on some kind of framework, that's hardly suitable for games on Windows and usually just used for building non-gaming desktop applications.

[Koby]

There is non earthly reason that the client software (which is very low in technical complexity, or it should be) can't run on multiple platforms with a minimal amount of development budgeting.

Earthly reasons:
1. WotC saves money by not hiring software developers. They hire interns and ink-fresh graduates to work on their software projects, often with little experience.
2. WotC is not a software company.
3. WotC can't even program Event Reporter to work for large events. What qualified them to operate a multi-user, multi-run environment dev-house?

[Julian23]

I remember that when they started splitting Day1s of large GPs, one of the L5 judges mentioned that he thinks there's only about 4 people in the world right now who actually know how to properly split and merge GPs.

[Barook]

3. WotC can't even program Event Reporter to work for large events. What qualified them to operate a multi-user, multi-run environment dev-house?

IIRC, even the judges were pissed about how shitty the Event Reporter is and provided an improved version by people with actual programing background. Despite all efforts, WotC refused to use said program for whatever reasons.

[ironclad8690]

WotC refused to use said program for whatever reasons.

Because they are sadists.

[Havrekjex]

The card Buried Alive is bugged. You pick the order for the cards to go in the graveyard (which matters for cards like Shallow Grave), but they`re shown in random order in the yard. When I cast Shallow Grave, however, the card I picked last is reanimated, no matter where in the graveyard it is shown to be. It gets me nervous every time.

I`ve contacted customer support about this, since a small thing like that should take minutes to fix, but they won`t answer. I bet they get hundreds of these each day, the game is just so fundamentally broken that there`s nothing to fix, they should rip it apart and start over.

I`m lucky enough to never have used the event reporter, but I`ve seen the frustration of TO`s that sometimes have to delay an event because something went wrong and they have to start over. It`s a serious problem.

[jrsthethird]

The card Buried Alive is bugged. You pick the order for the cards to go in the graveyard (which matters for cards like Shallow Grave), but they`re shown in random order in the yard. When I cast Shallow Grave, however, the card I picked last is reanimated, no matter where in the graveyard it is shown to be. It gets me nervous every time.

But they're buried alive, so once they're in the grave they move around a bit, right? So once you throw the dirt on 'em you can't control where they finally end up.

[ironclad8690]

Does anyone know if they post the decks that did well in the MOCS preliminary tournaments? If so, where?

[Julian23]

We only went through the data of one MOCS Prelim last night but it showed a significant amount of ANT.

[phonics]

Earthly reasons:
1. WotC saves money by not hiring software developers. They hire interns and ink-fresh graduates to work on their software projects, often with little experience.
2. WotC is not a software company.
3. WotC can't even program Event Reporter to work for large events. What qualified them to operate a multi-user, multi-run environment dev-house?

Pretty much this, there is no actual reason that any competent software dev would work at wotc when tech companies down the street probably offer a better salary, work environment, benefits ect? Even if you were some sort of saint that wanted to save magic online, it would mean you would have to deal with magic online, which based on how it works, must be an abomination in the back. Doubt they would ever let anyone redevelop the entire client from the ground up. On top of this, they make sure that any attempt by the community to develop anything decent is beat into submission instead of harnessing this creative power to help. But really the most important point of all is that they see no reason to deal with any of the above issues because people continue to pay to play and use the client. The only way I foresee any change occurring is if Hearthstone becomes insanely popular (even more so than now) and makes WotC jealous, or if it significant portions of the community just give up on the magic online client and go play hearthstone because it just works.

[iamajellydonut]

Event Reporter

Fuck the Event Reporter, they can't even host a forum.

[Nocley]

Pretty much this, there is no actual reason that any competent software dev would work at wotc when tech companies down the street probably offer a better salary, work environment, benefits ect? Even if you were some sort of saint that wanted to save magic online, it would mean you would have to deal with magic online, which based on how it works, must be an abomination in the back. Doubt they would ever let anyone redevelop the entire client from the ground up. On top of this, they make sure that any attempt by the community to develop anything decent is beat into submission instead of harnessing this creative power to help. But really the most important point of all is that they see no reason to deal with any of the above issues because people continue to pay to play and use the client. The only way I foresee any change occurring is if Hearthstone becomes insanely popular (even more so than now) and makes WotC jealous, or if it significant portions of the community just give up on the magic online client and go play hearthstone because it just works.

Offers a friend got out of college approximately 15 months ago. All Seattle area:

Amazon: 89k + 10k Signing bonus + ~12k Relocation
Microsoft: 94k + 12k bonus , Minimal Relocation (Assumed would be part of signing bonus)
Unnamed Startup: 78k, 2% ownership in stock.
WotC: 56k, Relocation Benefits under 1k.

Counting bonuses, that's sub 50%. Why would anyone competent enough to get hired by other companies want to go there? And that's just the actual $$, ignoring the entire bureaucracy that is WotC and the mess that MODO is.

[Julian23]

As someone with a Master in something completly different, my head just exploded reading those numbers.

[danyul]

As someone with a Master in something completly different, my head just exploded reading those numbers.

Yeah dude. And the Seattle MTG scene is full of transplants who move here to make 100k right out of college. They are younger and richer than me. But only sometimes better looking.

I shoulda done what my momma said and gotten a stupid STEM degree. Fucking ENGLISH MAJOR. AINT DONE SHIT FOR ME. NOW IM FAT AND OLD AND POOR. If I die a drunk, then I guess I'll have fulfilled my college prophecy. I got some time though.

TMI?

[MGB]

Offers a friend got out of college approximately 15 months ago. All Seattle area:

Amazon: 89k + 10k Signing bonus + ~12k Relocation
Microsoft: 94k + 12k bonus , Minimal Relocation (Assumed would be part of signing bonus)
Unnamed Startup: 78k, 2% ownership in stock.
WotC: 56k, Relocation Benefits under 1k.

Counting bonuses, that's sub 50%. Why would anyone competent enough to get hired by other companies want to go there? And that's just the actual $$, ignoring the entire bureaucracy that is WotC and the mess that MODO is.

Wow. Working for Wizards as a programmer is like being a paid like a Shift Manager at a Burger King.

On another note, does anyone know how the MTGO Legacy MOCS thing works? I saw some people talking about it because apparently the one taking place this month features Legacy as the format. As someone who doesn't play on MTGO at all, what is the schedule for this thing, and what are the stakes / benefits? Reid Duke in his latest article said that "that of all the Legacy tournaments that exist these days, the MOCS is the one with the biggest grand prize". Can someone elaborate who knows this thing?

[iamajellydonut]

TMI?

Not really. It's the same story we all have. Otherwise we could afford to be doing something more exciting than posting on a forum.

Fucking computers.

[Julian23]

The Legacy MOCS has always been a pretty big deal but never really received the kind of coverage it deserved. Last year I went on a 18h non-stop grinding session to qualify on the last night possible.

It's a regular Swiss+Top8 tournament. Winner goes to the Pro Tour and the MTGO World Championships. Last year's Legacy MOCS Winner, Magnus Lantto, went on to win the entire thing.

I'll be streaming tomorrow's MOCS over at twitch.tv/itsJulian, starting at 16:00 CET. That's in 17:48 h from this post. I'll put on something like a 5m delay.

[thecrav]

I say this every year, but STILL waiting for Mac/iOS support. Virtualization software / bootcamp is balls. The UI is crappy enough, adding lag to it is just unbearable.

When it was announced that .NET was going open source, a lot of people got excited that it meant that now MTGO could be played on Macs but someone came out and admitted that in addition to using .NET, they had relied on some Windows-specific libraries to build MTGO, and therefore, the current version could still not be played on Macs.

It's been mentioned a lot but it seems like the only chance of the MTGO client ever being on not-Windows is for the client to be rebuilt from the ground up. And that would probably have to be in a language that costs more money to hire people on with.

FWIW, I haven't tried the VM for MTGO but I have played MTGO on my Mac and on my iPad by VNCing into my Windows computer. The experience wasn't much worse than normal on the Mac. But the awful UI combined with a touch interface was nearly unplayable on the iPad.

Not that it'll ever happen but in my dreams, WotC decides that they're done trying to make a working MTGO client and gets everything server side, releases a shitty client, and opens the API to allow people to make their own clients. Between the already existing free MTGO knockoffs and the amount of money and brains in the MTG community, we'd probably have a pretty solid client pretty quick.

IIRC, even the judges were pissed about how shitty the Event Reporter is and provided an improved version by people with actual programing background. Despite all efforts, WotC refused to use said program for whatever reasons.

I think that's completely understandable. The company doesn't want to run one of their premiere level events on code they haven't audited or vetted.

Offers a friend got out of college approximately 15 months ago. All Seattle area:

Amazon: 89k + 10k Signing bonus + ~12k Relocation
Microsoft: 94k + 12k bonus , Minimal Relocation (Assumed would be part of signing bonus)
Unnamed Startup: 78k, 2% ownership in stock.
WotC: 56k, Relocation Benefits under 1k.

Counting bonuses, that's sub 50%. Why would anyone competent enough to get hired by other companies want to go there? And that's just the actual $$, ignoring the entire bureaucracy that is WotC and the mess that MODO is.

Shit, I know entry level tech support people in Seattle making more than 56K and he had a relocation bonus and a basically unlimited budget granted to him for paying for movers, etc.

[dsck]

Anyone know how to fix missing pictures? Instead of sweet guru mountain I have M-logo with black background

[Meekrab]

Offers a friend got out of college approximately 15 months ago. All Seattle area:

Amazon: 89k + 10k Signing bonus + ~12k Relocation
Microsoft: 94k + 12k bonus , Minimal Relocation (Assumed would be part of signing bonus)
Unnamed Startup: 78k, 2% ownership in stock.
WotC: 56k, Relocation Benefits under 1k.

Counting bonuses, that's sub 50%. Why would anyone competent enough to get hired by other companies want to go there? And that's just the actual $$, ignoring the entire bureaucracy that is WotC and the mess that MODO is.

That's absolutely insane. I knew they paid under market rates but I had no idea they were basically asking people to be paupers in order to work on Magic. I work on a .NET application with similar revenue and complexity and we wouldn't even waste our time interviewing people if we were going to offer that joke of a salary.