MTGO discussion

[nevilshute]

In the original announcement were we able to pay for entering dailies with Play Points? Or was paying 12 Event Tickets the only way? I seem to remember the latter being the case. If so, I think that being able to enter another daily for 60 Play Points using 0 tickets seems pretty nice.

[Barook]

Even in the original, it was possible to enter Events with PP, which was their entire point.

[Cartesian]

I kind of like the announced 3-round daily events.
8 player minimum makes them a sure thing (even if the player base goes down) and 3 rounds of Legacy fits much better than 4 into my real life schedule.

[ironclad8690]

I kind of like the announced 3-round daily events.
8 player minimum makes them a sure thing (even if the player base goes down) and 3 rounds of Legacy fits much better than 4 into my real life schedule.

One less Miracles mirror match to have to sit through ;)

[Barook]

Interestingly enough, WotC has pulled support for the Vintage Super League.

With the other changes to the Eternal dailies, I wouldn't be suprised if they tried to actively kill both formats off now.

Edit:
http://cardboard-crack.com/post/1251...online-changes

[Lord Seth]

Interestingly enough, WotC has pulled support for the Vintage Super League.

With the other changes to the Eternal dailies, I wouldn't be suprised if they tried to actively kill both formats off now.

Edit:
http://cardboard-crack.com/post/1251...online-changes

Hrm, how does reverting the set redemption fee fix the issues? I'm not really familiar enough with the MTGO economy to understand.

[jrsthethird]

Hrm, how does reverting the set redemption fee fix the issues? I'm not really familiar enough with the MTGO economy to understand.

Paper cards are usually worth more than their digital counterparts, so one way to 'go infinite' or make money on MTGO is to win enough packs to trade for tix, trade the tix for cards to complete a set, redeem the set, and sell the paper cards for cash. I'm too new at MTGO to have done it, but I can see how the extra $20/redemption can mess with your cash plan.

[Pippin]

Interestingly enough, WotC has pulled support for the Vintage Super League.

With the other changes to the Eternal dailies, I wouldn't be suprised if they tried to actively kill both formats off now.

That is not entirely correct. They just withdrew direct financial support - aka cash with which Vintage League players were paid with to play (as well as paying for "production" costs whatever those were). They will still provide "God" accounts with 4x of each cards available online + I guess some kind of prize in digital items.

TBH, paying "pro" players to play was wrong from the get-go. Vintage is a fun format and one should not have to pay players to play it when there are more than enough well known format enthusiast that would have done it for free... Seriously, who's smart idea was it? Randy's?

[Julian23]

You think VSL players were paid?

Also, production costs is a real thing, even if it's just some small compensation for everyone putting in the hours to make things work.

[Pilhas]

That is not entirely correct. They just withdrew direct financial support - aka cash with which Vintage League players were paid with to play (as well as paying for "production" costs whatever those were). They will still provide "God" accounts with 4x of each cards available online + I guess some kind of prize in digital items.

TBH, paying "pro" players to play was wrong from the get-go. Vintage is a fun format and one should not have to pay players to play it when there are more than enough well known format enthusiast that would have done it for free... Seriously, who's smart idea was it? Randy's?

Pulling from VSL when reducing the number of events for vintage is not exactly good PR. And while you see it as paying players to just play, they probably saw it as advertisement of MODO since many players like to watch the "pros" play but not the random joe.

[Barook]

Paper cards are usually worth more than their digital counterparts, so one way to 'go infinite' or make money on MTGO is to win enough packs to trade for tix, trade the tix for cards to complete a set, redeem the set, and sell the paper cards for cash. I'm too new at MTGO to have done it, but I can see how the extra $20/redemption can mess with your cash plan.

Speculation says that Wizards was unsatisfied with the amount of Paper sets redeemed since they flooded the paper market, to the point where it was more profitable for LGS owners to redeem sets on MTGO and sell the singles afterwards.

Due to this, Wizards raised the redemption fee from 5$ to 25$ to make this alot less profitable while increasing their own rake in the process.

The problem, however, is that set prices are heavily tied to their paper counterpart. The cost increase simply decreased the value of a complete set ready for redemption by ~20$. With less sets redeemed (due to lower profit margins), cards starting to flood the Online market, resulting in low prices, thus also massively decreasing the value of boosters, the main payout of online events.

The entire payout system was already rather unstable before, but the redemption fee really tipped the scale towards "extremely shitty".

[Pippin]

You think VSL players were paid?

Also, production costs is a real thing, even if it's just some small compensation for everyone putting in the hours to make things work.

I'm 100% sure, since Randy himself said it:

https://twitter.com/rbuehler/status/625774361589346304

(read further discussion)

[Phoenix Ignition]

Haha a new announcement stating " folks should expect positive news and a leagues update soon." was just put out in their MODO update article. I love how announcements to expect announcements are the most common announcement nowadays.

I have no doubt this was put in the article to try to dangle the carrot in front of people who see the MODO ship sinking to get them not to jump off before its economy is completely sunk.

What I don't understand is how they don't even try to entice people to be on their client normally. Cube drafts are fun, but why do we have to pay to enter every single one? And why would we have to pay so much money to play each one?? How are there still no free tournaments or ranking systems to make free play rewarding? They could just run free cube drafts all day long and people would inevitably spend more money since they're already on the client anyway (see Hearthstone actually giving out gold for doing daily quests, which keeps people interested in playing the game and spending real money to get more).

I just don't get it. They are so dumb it hurts.

Meanwhile, in the last week most legacy staples have dropped to about 75% of how much they cost before. I'm enjoying the fact that I could buy my collection back right now for the money I got for selling it just a week ago.

[menace13]

Meanwhile, in the last week most legacy staples have dropped to about 75% of how much they cost before.

Fucking rekt!

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Meanwhile, in the last week most legacy staples have dropped to about 75% of how much they cost before. I'm enjoying the fact that I could buy my collection back right now for the money I got for selling it just a week ago.

What have you seen that dropped that much? I just checked the staples I have and they seem to have hardly moved at all. Granted it's mostly lands/vintage stuff so it could just be insulated from the sell-off if people mostly had collections centered around brainstorm/force decks.

EDIT: Power is definitely down though. Big dip right at the announcement. https://mtgowikiprice.com/card/vma/4/black-lotus

[bruizar]

Will MTGO ever come to mac?

[Phoenix Ignition]

Here's a list of cards that are mostly used in Legacy and not Modern, the cards that double dip haven't seen as big of a drop, sorry for crap formatting but this took longer than I was intending:

All values are average sell price of bots that mtgowikiprice gets values from.

----------- Old Price (about 1 week ago) - New Price
Force of Will ---- $36.0 -------------------- $23.6
Tundra -----------$20----------------------- $8.5 (this one had a weird spike a week ago but was 13.6 before)
Volcanic Island---$18.2--------------------- $14
Underground Sea $14.8-----------------------$12
Tropical Island----$7.5------------------------$6.2
Counterbalance-- $15.8 -------------------- $13.2
Sensei's divining top $5.6 ------------------ $3.8
Jace, the mind sculptor $16 ------------- $13.8
Stoneforge Mystic- $3 ------------------- $2.3
Shardless Agent - $20.9 -------------------- $15.6 (this one also bounces around wonky)
Wasteland-------- $78.2-------------------- $71.7
Pyroblast ----------$4.7----------------------$3.3
Deathrite Shaman--$2.5---------------------$1.4 (Some bots are buying this card for more than other bots are selling it for, if you have an account you should go do this before they change prices)

And power:
Black Lotus----------$140--------------------$104
Mox Sapphire--------$64.7-------------------$57.7
Mox Pearl ------------$19.7------------------$18.0
Mox Ruby-------------$30.9------------------$27.3
Mox Emerald----------$22--------------------$19.8
Ancestral Recall-------$38.2------------------$33.5
Time Walk-------------$30.6------------------$31.4 (increase here probably due to the fact it uses averages and not median values)
Timetwister------------$20.2------------------$13.2

So overall it's a pretty big hit to the Eternal formats other than Modern. Modern cards look to be pretty steady with snapcaster and tarmogoyf holding value to within single digits percent. I imagine Modern players are buying up Legacy used Modern cards as soon as they hit the market.

[Barook]

Same procedure as every year:

https://twitter.com/SaffronOlive/sta...89361684606976

My guess tells me that they're announcing leagues for later this year, just to postpone them to the next year, etc.

What I find insulting is Worth's statement that "they're committed" to the Eternal format.

Let's see if he can name 3 positive changes for Legacy since VMA happened - because I can't name a single one, but ALOT of bad ones.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

The worst part is that leagues would be perfect for how I and a lot of others want to play. It's fucking infuriating.

[Julian23]

I've been witnessing people calling for leagues for years now and, I have to admit, I'm not 100% sure how leagues are actually meant to work.

Can someone explain? Is it like a free MODO-hosted tournament with no entry fee and no payouts? Like a private tournament? Why is called a league, does it have several rounds stretched out over weeks?