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Thread: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

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    MTGO Name: Adelorenzi
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    [DTB] Grixis Tempo



    I. Overview
    II. History
    III. Card Choices
    IV. Sample Decklists
    V. Sideboarding/Matchups


    I. Overview

    Grixis Delver is a tempo deck, and like all other tempo decks, it seeks to get ahead on board early while simultaneously disrupting the opponent using cheap/free spells. Your creatures are the most mana efficient in the game and they reward deck construction that is based around instants and sorceries, which occupy about half of the deck. The spells are either countermagic which hinder your opponent's game plan by stopping their early/key spells, burn/removal to destroy opposing creatures and/or deal damage to your opponent, cantrips to find what you need when you need it, or discard spells to attack your opponent's hand to further restrict their resources. Ideally you will win the game by keeping your opponent off balance long enough for your creatures and burn to seal the deal.

    II. History

    Grixis Tempo has been around for a long time, but its current form began with the printing of Young Pyromancer. If not immediately answered, Young Pyromancer spirals out of control by producing too many elemental tokens for the opponent to deal with. Most deckbuilders opted to compliment Pyromancer with Deathrite Shaman, Delver of Secrets, and either Dark Confidant or Snapcaster Mage. With the release of Khans of Tarkir, Treasure Cruise gave the deck a nice Ancestral Recall effect, but that was banned shortly after being introduced into the format. Dig Through Time gave the deck a nice way to find what it needed as the game dragged on, but that too was banned. Finally, when Gurmag Angler was printed in Fate Reforged, the deck gained a nice large creature. The deck now has a very well rounded creature base without any singular weakness. Some people play either True-Name Nemesis or Vendilion Clique as an additional threat, but not usually more than 1-2 of either. With the April 24th 2017 banned and restricted update, the most commonly played predator of Grixis Delver (Miracles) has left the format. In the current metagame, Grixis Delver appears to be one of the strongest contenders. It has great cards for almost every matchup in the format, and can be tailored to most metagames.

    III. Card Choices

    Creatures:

    Delver of Secrets: We play enough instants and sorceries to flip this guy about 46% of the time naturally, which is second only to RUG Delver in terms of flipping consistency (50% natural). Of course with Brainstorm and Ponder this becomes much higher. A 3/2 evasive flier for 1 U mana is just about the best aggressive creature ever printed.

    Young Pyromancer: The card that really made this deck possible back when phazonmutant was testing the original version. It is basically like a Tarmogoyf, but red and weak to mass removal instead of Swords to Plowshares/grave hate. With the high spell count you are encouraged to play to be able flip Delver of Secrets, this guy naturally fits into the deck's strategy.

    Deathrite Shaman: Fixes your mana, accelerates into playing more spells per turn, lessens your weakness to an early Wasteland, drains the opponent for life, gains life in a pinch, and lastly disrupts opposing graveyards. Deathrite Shaman truly is the workhorse of this deck. The acceleration is particularly great because you will usually want to cast a Young Pyromancer and a spell in the same turn, or at least have mana up after casting him.

    Gurmag Angler: A 1 mana 5/5. generally good against things that Pyromancer is weak against, such as -1/-1 effects or large creatures. A great bonus to the Delve mechanic is being able to shrink opposing Tarmogoyfs, so delve wisely! Backed up by at least 1 other creature, the only things that get rid of him are Swords to Plowshares/Jace bounce/sweepers.

    True-Name Nemesis: Usually only a 1 of if it is included. Resilient threat that has been warping legacy since it came out, and makes life especially hard for opposing fair decks.

    Vendilion Clique: Some people play Clique instead of the True-Name Nemesis or int he slot of the 4th Young Pyromancer. Clique is great vs Miracles, Show and Tell, and generally solid vs most fair decks (though not quite as resilient in combat or against removal as True-Name Nemesis).

    Dark Confidant: Used to be the primary source of card advantage, but his body is fragile and you can't really play him with Gurmag Angler. If you do choose to play him, try to keep your curve as low as possible.


    Spells:

    Brainstorm: Crucial cantrip and possibly best card in Legacy. Filter into the cards you need at the moment, whether that is creatures, removal, discard, counterspells, or lands, and put two cards back on top of your library to shuffle away with a fetchland.

    Ponder: 2nd only to Brainstorm. Provides the same sort of effect, without the added bonus of being able to shuffle cards from your hand away.

    Daze: Free countermagic, keeps your opponent from being able to cast stuff in the early game. This is your bread and butter in tons of matchups since early interaction is key in legacy.

    Force of Will: More free countermagic. Can safely be boarded out in many fair matchups as the cost of a card is quite large.

    Stifle: Mainly used on opposing fetchlands, but great vs many of the common effects in legacy like enter the battlefield triggers or planeswalker abilities. Can also counter an opposing Wasteland activation to protect your own lands.

    Spell Pierce/Spell Snare: If you want to play more countermagic, you can play either of these or both in some combination, but they do not go as well with Young Pyromancer as more proactive spells like Cabal Therapy.

    Gitaxian Probe: Viewing the opponent's hand is always good, and you will get a free token if you have a Pyromancer in play. Enables the awesome combo with Cabal Therapy to shred your opponent's hand.

    Cabal Therapy: Most lists that play Stifle play this in the sideboard instead, but most non-Stifle lists include 2 in their maindeck and 1 in the sideboard.

    Lightning Bolt: The removal spell of choice. Can also be aimed at opponent's dome.

    Fatal Push: Usually used as supplemental removal in addition to bolt. Sometimes played int he sideboard as well.

    Forked Bolt: Usually the next go to when you need more removal. Often a 2 for 1. Usually most lists play 1-2 if they play it.

    Dismember: With Eldrazi in the format many people have chosen to play this over Forked Bolt. Great against opposing Anglers, Goyfs, Reality Smasher.

    Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast: Depending on how blue your metagame is, you can play 1 in your maindeck and the rest in your sideboard. If you play 1 maindeck, make sure it is Pyroblast, as you can cast that at any time as long as there is a permanent in play to target to make a Pyromancer token. Between 2-3 of these is a good start.


    Lands:

    Volcanic Island: The most important land in the deck because it casts your blue spells and Bolt/Young Pyromancer/sideboard cards. Most lists play 3.

    Underground Sea: Necessary to cast Deathrite Shaman & activate Deathrite Shaman's ability as well as cast Cabal Therapy/Gurmag Angler. Most lists play 2.

    Tropical Island: If playing Deathrite Shaman, you will want 1 to be able to use all of his abilities.

    Wasteland: 0 mana non-basic stone rain most of the time, colorless mana source when card casting spells.

    Flooded Strand/Polluted Delta/Misty Rainforest/Scalding Tarn/Bloodstained Mire: Play some combination of these. Usually you will want 7-9 to be able to find your other lands and use Deathrite Shaman's mana producing ability.


    Common Sideboard Choices:

    Painful Truths: A nice Ancestral Recall effect that many play for grindy matchups.

    Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast: You will want some combination of these in your sideboard to combat blue decks.

    Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize: Additional combo hate. Usually 1-4 in sideboards depending on maindeck configuration.

    Flusterstorm: Great countermagic to have vs combo decks and decks with their own counterspells.

    Invasive Surgery: Great against most combo decks. Some of the targets include Show and Tell, Reanimate, Exhume, Life from the Loam, Glimpse of Nature, Natural Order.

    Surgical Extraction/Grafdigger's Cage/Nihil Spellbomb/Tormods's Crypt: You will need graveyard hate, so play some combination of these. Cage also has the bonus of stopping Green Sun's Zenith and Natural Order.

    Disfigure/Dismember/Darkblast/Forked Bolt/Fatal Push: You will want some targeted removal spells in your sideboard for decks with creatures.

    Electrickery/Marsh Casualties/Fire Covenant: You may want some "mass removal" that can take care of True-Name Nemesis, opposing Young Pyromancers, Elves, and a myriad of other small creatures.

    Perish/Dread of Night/Virtue's Ruin/Deathmark/Submerge/Sulfur Elemental: White and Green creatures can be particularly annoying because they often do not die to lightning bolt and outclass many of our creatures in combat. You can play these cards to mitigate that weakness.

    Null Rod/Ancient Grudge/Krosan Grip/Smash to Smithereens/Shattering Spree/Smelt: You need to be able to beat equipment and Chalice of the Void. Batterskull can spell doom for even the largest Elemental token army, and Young Pyromancer flinches at the thought of Jitte. Shattering Spree gets an honorable mention as the copies get around Chalice of the Void.

    Kolaghan's Command/Rakdos Charm/Dimir Charm: Versatility is awesome to have, and if you don't mind the somewhat steeper mana requirements, these cards are great.

    Diabolic Edict/Innocent Blood: You will possibly want to supplement your removal with some of these for creature decks/TNN, with Diabolic also having some use in Sneak and Show and Reanimator matchups.

    Pithing Needle: Generic hate. Mainly used for Sneak attack, Mother of Runes, Thespian's Stage, Aether Vial, Equipment, with many many other applications.

    Izzet Staticaster: This card is particularly powerful in the mirror match by letting you catch up to an opponent who has already produced some Elemenal Tokens, but also great vs Elves, Death and Taxes, Maverick, etc.

    Sulfuric Vortex: A very powerful card against slow decks like Miracles, as well as decks with Lifegain effects like Stoneblade or MUD.

    Baleful Strix: Good against Eldrazi and Gurmag Angler/Tarmogoyf/Opposing Delvers.



    IV. Sample Decklist

    Updated 5/1/2017

    LewisCBR, frequent MTGO 5-0 finisher's list:


    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Young Pyromancer
    2 Gurmag Angler
    2 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Gitaxian Probe

    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    3 Stifle
    1 Spell Pierce

    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Dismember

    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Dread of Night
    1 Electrickery
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Red Elemental Blast


    V. Sideboarding/Matchups (courtesy of LewisCBR)

    Vs. Grixis Delver

    In the mirror match, being on the play is a very real advantage as it is difficult to ‘break serve’ in the mirror and win on the draw. However, you can gain edges with the mana denial plan, trading threats one for one until you land the last threat, or simply keeping your DRS around while killing your opponents DRSs. Taking your opponent off their two black sources with Wastelands can be a killing blow. Having hard to answer threats, like True-Name Nemesis, can often be the difference maker, too.

    Suggested sideboard cards: Forked Bolt, Pyroblast, Electrickery, Flusterstorm, True-Name Nemesis, Grim Lavamancer, Fatal Push

    Vs. Storm

    Like against many combo decks, Grixis Delver plays best by deploying an early threat and then disrupting your opponent to victory. Young Pyromancer and Delver of Secrets are your most potent threats and other creatures often get sided out. Countermagic, discard, and Stifle provide disruption that your Storm opponent usually must remove from your hand before combo'ing off. Stifle, in particular, can hit the Storm trigger, acting as additional countermagic that needs to be Thoughtseized, Duressed, or Cabal Therpy’d away. DRS can eat away at the opponent's graveyard, keeping them off threshold and preventing them from replaying important spells with Past in Flames.

    Suggested sideboard cards: Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, Null Rod, Surgical Extraction, Grafdigger’s Cage, Flusterstorm

    Vs. Sneak and Show

    Sneak and Show can be a very fast combo deck which results in a threat that Grixis Delver is almost incapable of dealing with. We don’t play Swords to Plowshares, or other hard removal spells, so the best way to beat this deck is to prevent their fatty from ever entering the battlefield. It’s important to side out clunky threats and to bring in additional countermagic and discard. Turn 2 can be pivotal as you want to be able to get a threat down, but also not lose while tapped out if that play happens to be a Young Pyromancer, choose your time to be aggressive carefully, but do not wait too long as they can cantrip into a well sculpted hand.

    Suggested sideboard cards: Pyroblast, Pithing Needle, Flusterstorm, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, Diabolic Edict

    Vs. Death and Taxes

    Death and Taxes is a hatebear deck with mana denial. Their threats seem small and easy to deal with, but the innate disruption they provide, along with a strong mana denial plan, can make this matchup frustrating when your opponent if firing on all cylinders. The best opener for DnT is a turn 1 Aether Vial, followed up by Wastelands or Rishadan Port to attack your mana. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben further taxes your ability to play Magic. The best way to combat this deck is to shut off Vial and bring in as much removal as possible. Delver of Secrets and True Name Nemisis can be difficult for them to answer. Death and Taxes only usually plays 4 removal spells in the form of Swords to Plowshares, so if you kill their threats and shut down Vial you can often overwhelm them.

    Suggested sideboard cards: Forked Bolt, Fatal Push, Ancient Grudge, Dread of Night, Sudden Demise, Kolaghan’s Command, Fire Covenant, Pithing Needle, Null Rod

    Vs. BUG Delver

    The newest iteration of Delver is BUG Delver. While in the same colors as its older cousin, Team America, it is not the same deck. This ‘Delver Deck’ uses the term ‘Delver Deck’ loosely. It is more of a midrange deck that happens to also be playing Delver of Secrets. Due to that, Grixis Delver feels half a turn to a full turn faster, your best angle is to try to get under BUG Delver with mana disruption and counterspells for their expensive Liliana of the Veil’s. Multiple Hymn to Tourach can be back breaking and Tarmogoyf is a difficult to answer threat. Like all Deathrite Shaman mirrors, it is important to try and keep this card off the table for your opponent.

    Suggested sideboard cards: Forked Bolt, Fatal Push, Pyroblast, Flusterstorm

    Vs. Elves

    Elves is a creature based combo deck with a backup plan of simply running over you with a plethora of small green dudes. Ideally, this deck starts their combo with a Glimpse of Nature, plays endless elves, then finishes the job with a Natural Order for Craterhoof Behemoth. This plan can be difficult for Grixis Delver to stop. Countering one mana creatures, or a one mana Glimpse of Nature, doesn’t feel ideal, however you must control their board if you are to win. Removal spells are your best bet to keep them on their back foot, while you clock them with Delver of Secrets or True Name Nemisis. Gurmag Angler often is easily chump blocked or neutralized for no damage with a Wirewood Symbiote bouncing their blocker.

    Suggested sideboard cards: Forked Bolt, Fatal Push, Grafdigger’s Cage, Sudden Demise, Electrickery, Fire Covenant

    Vs. New Miracles

    Miracles is back and more control oriented than ever. The deck has eschewed finishing cards like Monastery Mentor for more copies of Jace, The Mindsculptor and Entreat the Angels. While less consistent without Sensei's Divining Top, New Miracles has even more cantrip spells like Porent to try and find and cast their Miracle cards. At its core, the deck is still a removal deck. Swords to Plowshares, Snapcaster re-casting Swords to Plowshares, and Terminus remain the heart of the deck and the reason why Grixis Delver can have a hard time beating it. All of our threats are creature based, which New Miracles is very good at cleaning up. It is important to strike hard and fast, while disrupting their mana, if possible, and attempting to get through the first Swords and/or Terminus. Your opponent will need double white and double blue to function well, which you can try to prevent. You cannot out grind this deck, the accepted best strategy is to try and get under them before they have time to get setup with a Jace.

    Suggested sideboard cards: Flusterstorm, Sulfuric Vortex, Pyroblast, Winter Orb, True-Name Nemesis

    Vs. Bant Deathblade

    The latest version of Deathblade is four colors with up to 8 mana dorks that will ramp your opponent into big three drops, such as True-Name Nemesis and Leovold, Emissary of Trest. In addition, this deck plays Stone Forge Mystic and the typical package of equipment. Equipment, historically, has always been tough for Delver decks to handle. It’s important to kill the mana dorks on sight, to force your opponent to cast their three drop bombs into your Dazes. I like attacking the mana base with Stifles, too, as opposed to stripping away equipment with Cabal Therapy. Pyroblast hits both TNN and Leovold.

    Suggested sideboard cards: Pyroblast, Forked Bolt, Fatal Push, Ancient Grudge, Pithing Needle, Dismember, Marsh Casualties
    Last edited by ironclad8690; 06-07-2017 at 02:57 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Nobody's talking about this deck? Well here's the list I'm playing on MTGO. Pretty much Noah Walker's list, but I cut his one-ofs in favor of Stifles and swapped a couple cards from the sideboard. Been pretty happy with it; makes me feel good alternating between this and PSI since coming back to the game. I picked this up because I used to play New Horizons, and a high-placing tempo deck just called for me.

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Young Pyromancer
    2 Gurmag Angler

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Stifle
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Dig Through Time

    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Wasteland
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Tropical Island

    // Sideboard
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Submerge
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Darkblast
    1 Dismember

    Some notes while testing this:

    I started with his build, but missed Stifle and bought them. I played this with -1 DTT and +1 TNN, and rarely ever ended up casting the TNN. I think I pitched it more to FOW than actually playing it. Went back up to 2 DTT and been satisfied ever since.

    I tried a couple Charms in the sideboard and found I never really wanted them. I think I board in Clique every game; one of my favorite cards but I feel like the main is so tuned that there's not any room for Game 1. Once you know what you're facing though Clique just feels better to me. Same thing with Therapy.

    Noah's build ran 2 Cages and 1 Submerge. I accidentally bought 2 Submerges and 1 Cage when I made this, and I've been totally happy with it. Not a lot of Dredge players on MTGO (or I've just avoided them); I think I only ran into it once. Part of me also feels bad accidentally investing $17 into a card I'm not running. It's a stupid reason, but whatever. It's helped me blow out some of the green decks. Seems good against Lands/Aggro Loam, but I haven't seen either of those decks on MTGO yet. Probably a price concern. Cage isn't good against them either, so if they pop up, maybe a Tormod's Crypt or Surgical would be better.

    I'm not sure on Darkblast/Electrickery. Neither one of them have come up very often for me. I've been blown out by equipment before, so another artifact hate might come in useful. Kolaghan's Command looks interesting, and they come down late game so 3 mana isn't a huge issue. Plus it kills the equipment AND the target. There's a decent amount of Show and Tell online, so I'm thinking Edict would be useful too. The first couple lists I played were Ug, so I thought Submerge would do the trick, but then I realized most of them are mono-U or Ur.

  3. #3
    MTGO Name: Adelorenzi
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I like your deck. Stifle is certainly attractive with all of the miracles online. Kolaghan's command has been pretty good for me so far, but I have to test it more.

  4. #4
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Maybe for the primer:
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...(Grixis-Green)
    It's the old thread for this deck.

    Grixis-Green Delver => GG Delver

  5. #5
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    This is likely what I'm going to be running this upcoming weekend at a local Legacy event, taking a break from Pox to get some real interaction going. I am undecided on Stifle's in the main or Cabal Therapy, though. Also, Anglers vs TNN. Both are good, I'm just not sure which is better.

    As for the SB, I'm leaning toward this:
    3 Cabal Therapy (if I run them in the main, this slot will likely be 1 Null Rod, 1 Tsabo's Web, 1 Engineered Plague)
    2 Submerge
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Hydroblast
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Dack Fayden (This or Kolaghan's Command is the current question)
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (Or +1 Clique)

    The meta here is pretty diverse and not many people are stuck on pet decks, so variety has to be prepared for.

  6. #6
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Stifle has so much utility that it's rarely disappointing game 1. I tested against Stoneblade last night and that card gave me such an upper hand. Hitting fetches early, and then hitting Stoneforge ETB late game so he couldn't recover. It's also blue for FOW, which is relevant.

    I usually side out FOWs and some amount of Stifles games 2/3. If they're expecting it, just playing around it might slow them down or throw them off a bit. Games 2/3 Therapy is better than game 1 since you know what they're playing for sure. However, in a small local, you'll likely know before the match, but I play on MTGO so YMMV.

    Angler has been total BOSS for me. TNN is cute but when I had him as a 1-of I was never really impressed. Sometimes game 1 Angler wins will get people to side in Relics/Crypts, and those are wasted spots against us IMO. 4/5 Delve cards and a couple Therapies is a rather fair usage of the graveyard; I'm happy to see them water down their deck for a marginal advantage against a couple of our cards.

    How's Dack been for you? Been thinking about that guy a lot.

  7. #7
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I haven't used him yet, but I'd rather have him than K. Command to deal with Equipment if the problem arises. I know he was much bigger in control when Cruise was legal, but to be able to just drop him and thief a Jitte or Sword is a big plus. A 2-for-1 from Command is nice, but all the DTT fuel is hard to pass up.

  8. #8

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I've become a really big fan of this deck lately. The ability to throw almost any good card in the deck is really sweet. I'm currently on something very similar to jrsthethird, but I'm currently testing a 1 of Fire//Ice and 2 Thoughtseize instead of the probes. I kind of like the decks that have the forked bolt, but whenever I can play this card, I always try Fire//Ice, too. Especially since we're running DRS, the mana shouldn't really be an issue, and it allows us to cycle it or pitch to FoW, as well as being instant.

  9. #9

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Hey, first of all, I'm new to posting on this forum, but I've been watchng alot of legacy deck threads.

    I'm looking for people who have experience in playing Grixis Tempo. There are like 3 threads on the forum with decklists matching what I've been playing for several years now. This thread seemed to be the most recent one.

    The decklist I'm currently running:

    Creatures:
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Gurmag Angler
    1 True-Name Nemesis

    Spells:
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Stifle
    3 Spell Pierce
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Dig Through Time

    Lands:
    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Tropical Island

    /Sideboard:
    1 Grafdigger’s Cage
    1 Null Rod
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Dead // Gone
    1 Electrickery
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Dispel
    1 Submerge
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Dimir Charm
    1 Terminate


    Cards I have played along the road with succes:

    2 Tombstalker in the main, but this is before the Khans set and I had to run an extra Underground Sea instead of Tropical Island
    3-4 Young Pyromancer in the main deck, together with 2-4 Cabal Therapy main and side
    1-2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang in the main
    2-4 Sultai Scavenger in the main
    1-3 Spell Snare in the main and/or side
    1 Murderous Cut main
    2-3 Treasure Cruise when they were legal to play


    Quick history:
    I started of playing the deck with 4 Deathrite/Delver/Pyromancer and 2 Tombstalkers as creatures, backed up by the Fow/Daze/Bolt and Therapy as discard in the main deck. Switched to using Stifle, moving the discard to the sideboard wich added more lines of play and actually turning into a Tempo deck.
    Later on I dropped Tombstalker for newer/better delve cards and gone towards a more direct approach using 4 Deathrite/Delver/Sultai Scavanger/TNN and Spell Snares to hit quick and finish before the opponent had a chance to settle board control. (really effective against any type of BUG/ANT simply becouse they can't get rid of the Scavangers in time and Snares countering their key cards)
    Tasigur took some spots away from the Scavangers in order to deal opposing big creatures that came trough and later on swapped for Angler becouse of the 1 power difference and legendary status.

    The sideboard cards are basicly cards I have good experience with using in the local meta and switch from time to time.


    So, what do other Grixis Tempo players use these days and why?
    Also looking for some feedback in general to the deck.

  10. #10
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    How has the Badlands been for you? You only have 10 black or red spells main, almost seems better to have an Underground Sea, so you always have U available. I tried one when I first picked up the deck and hated it.

    3 Spell Pierce is nice. Do you ever miss the Pyromancer though?

    How often do you side in Dimir Charm? What matchups do you like it in? Abrupt Decay is obviously really good, but do you ever have issues with one green source in the deck? This is why I don't run it.

    I agree with Angler over Tasigur though. I never tested Tasigur, but I always enjoyed the extra power, and it also seems relevant that Miracles has no cards at 7 mana to flip for him. I'm playing a Grixis Control deck now too, and Tasigur is better there, since we have more mana and can actually use his ability. Without that, no question, Angler is better.

  11. #11

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Hey guys,

    Seems like Grixis Delver is really a versatile archetype, as there are lots of different lists from it. Mine is different from the ones posted previously here.

    Actually I was thinking about playing the old UR Burn Delver list (with guide, POP, chain lightning, bolt, 1-of thunderous wrath, etc), but I spent the last months of 2013 and the whole last year playing it, so I thought I should play something different. I didn't get some list on the internet, actually had no time to search for it so I made up some list quickly, which still had a good result.

    I changed 4 goblin guide for 4 pyromancers, and then put 2 gurmag, 2 kolaghan's command, 1 tasigur and 1 extra land, instead of 4 chain lightning and 2 POP. The list was something like this:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Young Pyromancer
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Gurmag Angler
    1 Tasigur

    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Gitaxian Probe

    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Kolaghan's Command

    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    1 Swamp


    Side:

    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Pyroblast
    2 Smash to smithereens
    1 Terminate
    1 Dismember
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Vendilion Clique
    2 Spell Pierce

    I played a 3 round tournament (really small), got 2-0-1 and split the prize, but it was enough that I could get the idea from the deck

    1º I didn't play against any wasteland deck, but still the swamp felt pretty unnecessary. Guess I will just take it off from the deck, as I also think it could run with 18 lands.
    2º The deck felt pretty good in long grindy games, but also pretty fast if needed against combo, with delver + bolt + snapcaster hands full with protection.
    3º The sideboard felt pretty lame, as I didn't explore the black color in it, I think I should've run at least 1of darkblast against small creatures deck.
    4º Daze sounded kinda weird in this list with 4 snapcaster+kolaghan. I guess it works well in people's list that got good results, but not in this one.
    5º DTT sounds like would've been a good card for this deck, but I'm not sure how could be the split between the GY cards: SCM, DTT, Gurmag and Tasigur

    Overall, even though this list was kinda weird, it sounded reeeally strong. Which means this deck is awesome, as I'm sure I can make some adjustments to make it actually good, I guess.

    PS.: Cabal therapy with probe, a 1-of clique for information and pyromancer plus other cheap creatures for it to be flashed back is really bananas against combo decks. That's the one thing I'm sure I will keep, 4-of cabal therapy in the sideboard.

  12. #12

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by jrsthethird View Post
    How has the Badlands been for you? You only have 10 black or red spells main, almost seems better to have an Underground Sea, so you always have U available. I tried one when I first picked up the deck and hated it.

    3 Spell Pierce is nice. Do you ever miss the Pyromancer though?

    How often do you side in Dimir Charm? What matchups do you like it in? Abrupt Decay is obviously really good, but do you ever have issues with one green source in the deck? This is why I don't run it.
    I think the Badlands is actually really good and not replacable by Sea or Volcanic. Becouse of that one Badlands it's really hard to deny you black, red or blue by using Wastelands. It can be awkward to have sometimes in your starter hand, but besides that, it's almost always good. One in every 100 matches it happends that I don't have blue becouse of it, I'll take that chance if it fixes 80+% of Wasteland.deck metch-ups. Also, it's not bad having a black mana open to use for Deathrite or Bolt/Red Blast out of the Badlands. You'll have blue mana open for counters that way.

    Sometimes I miss the pyromancers, but against a lot of decks, the only thing Pyromancer is doing is proloning the game, witch can be counter productive since I try to deny the enemy the ability to get into the game (using cheap counters, Stifle and Wasteland).

    About Dimir Charm:
    It's really good. I even ran it main deck with succes for a while. It's another counter against Miracles and Storm decks and on the other hand able to kill almost any ulitity creature in Legacy (Deathrite/Mother of Runes/any random Elf/Stoneforge/Confidant).
    I board is against decks who have either sorcery spells I want to counter, or small creatures, like the ones I just listed. But that's obvious.

    About About Decay:
    Really powerfull card, but becouse I run only one green mana source, I almost never board it. Basic rule I use when to use it or when not: "does the enemy have Wasteland?" > Yes: don't use it > No: use it. You do need to realize that you'll have to fetch towards Tropical. Going Tropical into Badlands will give you the ability to play all cards in the main deck and sideboard. Genrally I never fetch towards Tropical becouse of the awkward green, unless you really need it in combination with Shaman.

    @ThiefSlayer
    The decks seems nice, but more straight foreward like UR burn/tempo. Not having Wasteland/Stifle changes how you play the deck alot.

  13. #13
    Member
    AfroSmile's Avatar
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by jrsthethird View Post
    Abrupt Decay is obviously really good, but do you ever have issues with one green source in the deck? This is why I don't run it.
    If the deck really want to run abrupt decay, it may be better to consider is cousin bUrg Tempo.

  14. #14

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Has anyone else been testing with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy? I find him a solid addition to the deck, and I currently considering making him a 2-of. The card, in my opinion, is pure value: it fixes your hand, holds of an attacking Delver of Secrets, Vendilion Clique, Snapcaster Mage etc., lets you attack through a Baleful Strix, and provides a sorcery speed snapcaster effect.

    I play a non-wasteland version of grixis delver mostly due to ridiculous Wasteland prices in MTGO.

  15. #15

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Without Wasteland/Stifle, I feel like it's missing the point of being a tempo deck.

    Jace might be a solid card in a more control version of Grixis, like Grixis Control/Pyromancer (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ontrol-Thieves here a thread for it) or 4C Delver.

    I also have to agree with AfroSmile that if you want to run Decay, you might want to be playing BURG instead of Grixis. On the other hand, becouse you have a single Tropical Island, it's possible to splash green into the sideboard. So far, I really like 2 Decay in the side, but you should not bring it in in certain match ups. Edit: I don't really see a substitude for this card either in the BRU spectrum.

  16. #16
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I played Grixis Delver for the first time at my LGS weekly Legacy (18 players) and GP London side Event (40 players).

    Main Deck:
    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=89116

    SB:
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Submerge
    1 Sulfuric Vortex
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Dismember
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Sulfur Elemental

    Weekly Legacy:

    Grixis Delver w Snapcasters 2-0
    Goblins 2-0
    Grixis Delver 2-0
    Infect 1-2

    3-1

    GP London side event:

    Infect 2-0
    Team America 2-0
    Death and Taxes 2-1
    Grixis Swiftspear 2-0

    4-0

    The deck feels very strong at the moment and I would not be surprised to see it reaching DtB status by the end of September. Submerge was amazing against Infect and Tarmogoyfs. Did not face any combo decks and the only time I brought in Cabal Therapies was against DnT (2) to combat SFM.

    I used my SCG prize wall tickets from the side-event to buy 3 Alliances and 3 Khans boosters. There was a massive Force of Will poster standing next to me while I was weighting my options and it looked straight into my eyes telling me there's a foil Delta and a FoW waiting for me on the other side... I opened 2 Gorilla Shamans and an Elvish Spirit Guide, zero fetches. Oh well.

  17. #17

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    So I've been trying out both this deck and the Control version and I have to ask, how does one beat a resolved Countertop lock? I've had so much trouble with Miracles when I can't find the discard needed or the opening to Pyroblast the Counterbalance. Any tips?

  18. #18
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Golgari_Mage View Post
    So I've been trying out both this deck and the Control version and I have to ask, how does one beat a resolved Countertop lock? I've had so much trouble with Miracles when I can't find the discard needed or the opening to Pyroblast the Counterbalance. Any tips?
    Options g1 are -> early Cabal on they´re hand, FoW, Daze, Pierce, Snare, Pyroblast
    Options g2 are -> Abrupt Decay (With the 1off Tropical in the manabase), Pithing Needle, Null Rod, more Pyroblasts.

    Thats it, this is the reason why I prefer 4c Delver over this...

    Greetings
    Currently playing
    True-Name BUG

  19. #19
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    Whitefaces's Avatar
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Manipulato View Post
    Options g1 are -> early Cabal on they´re hand, FoW, Daze, Pierce, Snare, Pyroblast
    Options g2 are -> Abrupt Decay (With the 1off Tropical in the manabase), Pithing Needle, Null Rod, more Pyroblasts.

    Thats it, this is the reason why I prefer 4c Delver over this...

    Greetings
    I've found CB a huge problem too.

    Mostly been on the control version, so even weaker to CB, but I'm sure it applies to both builds. Therapy/Pyroblast are fine vs the stock Ponder miracles without daze, but on the draw you can't do anything if they jam it T2 and have Daze backup or a Brainstorm T1 to hide it from Therapy.

    I've gone through loads of ideas and it really is play a Trop and Decays or drop the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  20. #20

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    You can either hope to counter the CB with Snare/Pierce/FoW/Daze and win the counter war, or push tokens if you run Pyromancer and/or Angler, depending on what you have in play and what you play in the main deck.
    Also mana denial is really strong for this. Being able to deny double blue with Wastelands or slow down by forcing to fetch basic lands.

    This is one of the reasons I run the 2 Decay sideboard (having the one-off Trop main). Grabbing both Decays, both Pyroblast and the Null Rod helps in the match-up.

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