I actually think that Pithing Needle is at least as good as Null Rod in the D&T-matchup: Most importantly it can shut off port and mom which rod can't. They're both really strong though, the only reason I keep in Needle instead is because of lands (which I find rather winnable with my sb).
D&T is generally unfavored preboard, but favorable postboard in my experience. All these cantrips just make it so that our trump cards (be it Grudge, Lavamancer, Dread or Covenant) are easy to find, also Cabal Therapy does a lot (though I'd generally wait until the opponent lands a stoneforge or obviously doesn't have it if I also can do other stuff with my mana in the meanwhile).
As I said though, the fact that I (among many other players) feel that we have a really strong sideboard shifts the matchup in our favor overall.
A link to my deck is in my signature, just click on it
Against lands I sideboard:
-5 Bolts
-4 Daze
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Invasive Surgery
+1 Hydroblast
+3 Abrupt Decay
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Tropical Island
As you see it's not only the sb that matches up against lands very well but also the maindeck stifles. Without those I'd honestly be afraid to play decays in the sb against wasteland decks (mostly delver, eldrazi and lands) which would leave the decays only against miracles (which would be quite narrow).
Similar to D&T and a lot of other nonblue decks that are hard matchups (Eldrazi, 4cLoam) the strength imo lies in having a better post-sb matchup against them thanks to awesome sideboard cards and cantrips to find them.
Hi all!
After a short hiatus from legacy, I came across grixis delver and the deck looked too good not to play. In addition to the typical delver shell, deathrite shaman leads to some pretty explosive starts and provides a free source of graveyard interaction, gitaxian probe provides perfect information and the removal options in the sideboard are quite strong with access to four colors.
After getting the deck together, I decided to play in one of the weekly legacy tournaments at Knight Ware. To prepare, I watched a bunch of Noah Walker coverage.
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+delver+legacy
It immediately became clear that Noah was taking very aggressive lines. Jamming threats on turn 1, pyromancers on 2, countering removal spells, and generally getting them dead. Probe helped direct wastelands and removal spells. In the sideboard, baleful strix and painful truths provide card advantage, which shines in the grindy, removal heavy matchups
I ended up sleeving up the following 75:
Lands (18):
3x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Volcanic Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
4x Wasteland
Creatures (14):
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Young Pyromancer
1x True-Name Nemesis
2x Gurmag Angler
Spells (28):
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Cabal Therapy
1x Spell Pierce
1x Forked Bolt
Sideboard (15):
2x Painful Truths
1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extractionvoi
1x Rough//Tumble
1x Dismember
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Darkblast
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Pyroblast
1x Cabal Therapy
2x Abrupt Decay
The mainboard is pretty stock for a stifleless list. The true-name nemesis was fine, but a fourth pyromancer is probably better with maindeck cabal therapy. Out of the sideboard, abrupt decay and ancient grudge lined up well with challice of the voids that were seemingly everywhere. Card availability meant that baleful strix will have to wait until the next tournament to shine
Onto the games!
Round 1: David (Imperial Painter)
David and I drove up together and decide to audible into playing an imperial painter deck that the storeowner, Lori, leant to him (have I mentioned that this store is great?). Before the round starts, we play a couple of practice games. In the first, he plays a turn 1 blood moon and I lose. In the second, I waste him off his only red source and bolt his painter's servant. The painter deck can get some free wins off of blood moon, but we have so much removal for the painter's servant/grindstone combo that they have to try and play a grindy game with goblin welder and sensei's divining top. In the actual matches, multiple wastelands + pressure took down both games:
Sideboarding (on the draw):
+2 Painful Truths
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Cabal Therapy
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Abrupt Decay
-4 Daze
-2 Gurmag Angler
-1 TNN
-1 Forked Bolt
Daze is quite bad on the draw without stifle support. Gurmag are vulnerable to a potential rest in peace
Matches: 1-0
Games: 2-0
Round 2: Eldrazi
My opponent is playing an eldrazi deck with eldrazi displacer and cavern of souls, but no wastelands and no removal that I saw. In game 1, I stick a delver on turn 1 and manage to strand his Jitte with wastelands + burn. In game 2, I rip a crucial force to counter a challice for 1, and win the delver versus thought-knot seer + reality smasher race by a single turn.
Sideboarding (on the draw):
-4 Daze
-1 Forked Bolt
-1 Spell Pierce
+1 Dismember
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Cabal Therapy
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Abrupt Decay
Daze is horrendous on the draw, and we need some answers to a challice for 1. My opponent elected to play an almost entirely proactive eldrazi plan, which lead to most games being races. We managed to fit another 6-7 games in before time was called. Delver is favored against a proactive eldrazi goldfish. The matchup gets trickier if they have pressure backed up by colorless removal
Matches 2-0
Games 4-0
Round 3 Dredge (Kai?):
Game 1, I win the die roll and probe to see a hand with no lands, LED, faithless looting, and a single dredger. I play a deathrite shaman on turn 1, force the faithless looting, and exile the dredger. I draw a bunch of lands, but deathrite has the game locked up.
Game 2, I keep a nice looking hand without 0 mana interaction on the draw, bad call! I resolve surgical and take a look at his deck before conceding. Notably, there are no street wraiths, so future surgicals can safely target dredgers.
Game 3, We both mulligan, and I keep DRS, bolt, brainstorm, 3 lands. I play the shaman, my opponent firestorms it and discards two blanks. I ponder, draw force, leave a ponder on top, and my opponent plays careful study, to dig for a dredger. Forcing has the potential to lock my opponent out, but allowing careful study lets me cast brainstorm + ponder next turn and hitting surgical extraction on a dredger at any point is likely game. I find a deathrite shaman instead and lock up the game a couple of turns later.
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Rough//Tumble
+1 Darkblast
-3 Wasteland
-1 Forked Bolt
-1 Daze
-2 Cabal Therapy
Surgical is a big upgrade, as is the instant speed removal. You can kill your own creatures in response to bridge from below triggers to stem the tide of zombies
Matches 3-0
Games 6-1
Round 4 Cody (Goblin Stompy)
Game 1: Cody leads with city of traitors into challice for 1, which I force. He follows up with mountain, cavern of souls on human. A gitaxian probe reveals a hand of 2 moggcatchers and a goblin settlers. I find a delver and a young pyromancer, but his second moggcatcher finds a kiki jiki and a siege gang. A true name nemesis gets him into bolt range, but he cracks back for lethal.
Game 2: An early delver gets in for 10, but it stingscourger takes care of it after a challice for 1, followed by a trinisphere. Painful truths into ancient grudge takes care of the artifacts, but a siege gang commander and ancient tomb leave both life totals perilously low. Resources trade off for a few more turns, and we end up a card or two ahead
Game 3: Cody resolves two challices on 1 to our painful truths, but doesn't find a third land for several turns. Time is called, and we elect to scoop Cody up into a tie for first
Sideboarding (on the draw):
-4 Daze
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Ponder
+1 Painful Truths
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Cabal Therapy
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Abrupt Decay
Matches 3-1
Games 7-2-1
Overall, met a bunch of very nice people and had a better than expected first tournament. The deck played out great with a proactive game plan and a flexible removal suite. Knight Ware continues to be a great store with 17! legacy decks available to borrow. I think I'll head back for the legacy staples tournament on June 12th.
Thanks for the report!
The only thing I disagree with is the Therapies over the Dazes in Eldrazi. These guys just have a too perfect curve for their own good. Most of the times they have to play their reality smashers and thought-knot-seers into daze, even more so with your wastelands!
Probe on the other hand drains your life (which is relevant in such a swingy matchup) and Cabal Therapy is not ideal against a deck where they vomit out cards and go into topdeck mode relatively quickly if you don't stop them. Nor Probe nor therapy advance the board and they're only actually decent when you have both of them together (most of the time you don't have time for YP, especially if you don't play Dazes).
I would actually just cut all the Therapies and all the Probes and also keep in Forked Bolt and Spell Pierce, I think they're decent enough in that matchup (though people will disagree).
D&T is a tricky one. There's a streamer on twitch that also streams Grixis with stifle and he leaves in all 4 stifles but takes out all FoWs.
Personally I'm not a big fan, though it's an ok card in the first game imo (jackpots being stifling wastelands, stoneforge, batterskull and flickerwisp-eot-trigger).
This guy also leaves in Dazes, even otd with the reasoning that D&T has a lot of 2 and 3 drops worth dazing. I only like this plan though against decks where stifle and wastelands are also good.
I slightly disagree with him because imo Dazes are too dependent on wether we have wastelands (and he has nonbasics). Also dazing with a Thalia out is nigh impossible (and I let Thalia live a lot of the times when I don't have a cantrip-heavy hand and enough lands)
I board a LOT in this matchup, cutting
-4 Dazes
-3 Stifle
-2 FoW
-1 Spell Pierce
and bring in basically removals only:
+1 Pithing Needle
+3 Cabal Therapy
+3 Abrupt Decay
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Fire Covenant
+1 Tropical Island
The numbers of Spell Pierce and FoW do seem random, but have a reason: With only 18 blue sources remaining I leave in only 2 Fow, otherwise the third stifle propably would be another FoW. Stifle can still be worth a full card sometimes though. I like that I can pitch useless cards later on to the 2 FoWs i left in, e.g. when my cantrips are useless or cost too much.
Generally my gameplan is to go for a really long, grindy game. In this game they'll draw all their lands and stuff while we get to shuffle them away.
I also have some sort of card-advantage (Cabal Therapy, Fire Covenant, YP, Pithing Needle if e.g. 2 moms are out) while we get to negate much of the card-advantages he is getting by Cabal Therapy and Decay, leaving him with a bunch of bodies he can't attack with because of Angler and YP.
Went in to a small tournament went 4-0 borrowing the deck till my cards come in from eternal masters order.
Beat
Eldrazi - 2-1
Reanimator - 2-0
MUD - 2-0
Jund - 2-1
List
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler
1 True-Name Nemesis
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Spell Pierce
1 Forked Bolt
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
Sideboard
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Dread of Night - ( wanted a Grim Lavamancer )
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Disfigure
1 Dismember
1 Submerge - ( wanted a baleful strix )
1 Painful Truths
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
Delver/DRS/Angler all shined as a creature.
Needle was great
Wasteland was badass
Pyromancer is good but mana intense.
I'm proud I 4-0 after not playing tournament magic in 6 months.
Will be playing next week same list, till my eternal master cards come in. Post a more in-depth report
Thanks for the comment. On the play, daze is excellent and four copies is great. I'll test some games on the draw to see what configuration I like. Some number of dazes could be good. The Probe/Therapy package was OK against the slower GW eldrazi deck I faced, as it provides an answer to larger creatures and all is dust.
It's similar against Merfolk imo:
Do you leave in all the counters for maximum tempo or do you play cabal + Gitaxian Probe and give up on tempo, but you get stuff around cavern of souls (but are more vulnerable to topdecks)?
I'm thinking about trying out leaving in all my dazes and forces and just go for maximum tempo in this matchup.
Otherwise TNN or a timely Harbinger can just screw us up so hard that there's really nothing we can do imo.
It depends on your deck configuration. As u play 4x stifles, you maybe are more commited to play tempo. Lists than dont play stifle can switch to grind plan better.
I'm 100% sure I don't want stifle against Merfolk. It just does nothing besides forcing my opponent to spend 1-2 more mana or not drawing a card with Silvergill Adept, so I definitely board them out. It's like the best deck against the card stifle together with Eldrazi.
Well, it has sense. Im currently playing the 2 decay 0 stifle version and im loving it. The list just lose some punch vs storm and maybe delver decks. Grindier matchups get a lot better, and there are no decks u cant beat.
In the Eldrazi matchup, I've been keeping in my dazes. As others have said, they play on curve and have no way to actively find cavern. I also want as many answers to an early chalice or dismember on a delver as possible. I'm taking this deck to Columbus this weekend and have two questions from my testing the other day. Any input is greatly appreciated.
1. Who has tried Kolaghan's Command and what has your experience been? I was playing Engineered Explosives until recently but was never that happy with the card. I want a card that can deal with chalice and also be good in other matchups and Command seems to fit the bill, but don't have time to fully test.
2. How are people sideboarding against infect? I played the matchup last night and I ended up boarding as outlined below. Taking out a Ponder seemed weird but everything else seemed better and I can't afford to durdle in that matchup.
-2 Gurmag Angler
-1 Young Pyromancer
-1 True-Name Nemesis
-1 Ponder
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Cabal Therapy
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Dismember
Full list:
Creatures (14)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Gurmag Angler
3 Young Pyromancer
1 True-Name Nemesis
Lands (18)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
Spells (28)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
1 Forked Bolt
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
1 Dismember
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Baleful Strix
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Painful Truths
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Vendilion Clique
I agree on the "cannot afford to durdle around" part when playing against Infect. My natural conclusion would be to side out Cabal Therapy then though.
1 Pithing Needle against Inkmoth Nexus as well as the 2 Baleful Strixes seem good, too. Personally I would just shave the whole Cabal Therapy + Probe package and put in more of these.
Now the reason why I don't like Kolaghan's Command is that it doesn't really everything I want. Most importantly: It doesn't destroy enchantments, especially counterbalance. Also it doesn't kill Tarmogoyf or Mother of Runes if I need it. I know EE is a very important card if you don't play green from my days of playing Grixis Pyromancer with DTT.
Also KC doesn't do very well against Miracles (discard and 2 damage are hardly relevant, so is destroying an artifact) or other grindy decks like Jund or Nic-Fit. Only against Shardless it's nice because it can destroy baleful Strixes and against D&T. Here the question would be between Grudge and KC though and not EE and KC.
Still I prefer Fire Covenant in all the creature matchups because while KC is card advantage, it actually isn't tempo-advantage most of the time.
Thanks for the input. I've been VERY happy with cabal therapies in that match-up so I definitely don't want to take those out. As a "critical mass of cards in hand" combo deck, cabal therapy has been great for me and they have no way real way to protect against it, especially given flashback. I never liked bringing in answers to Inkmoth as the answers never address any of their other cards and we have wastelands available to us as well. You may be right given it's a 1 card answer to every nexus, so would love to hear others' thoughts as well. I don't like strixes in the match-up as tapping 2 mana early for a non-threat, non-removal card is difficult. Along with the fact it doesn't deal with agent/apostle's blessing/berserk, I'm not a fan.
Your points on EE/KC are very interesting and maybe I'm not fully utilizing EE. What match-ups do you like it in? It sounds like you're bringing it in against miracles as a counterbalance answer, which I had not been using it for. And you bring it in against tarmogoyf decks and D&T? I just feel like it would be underwhelming in those matches. My plan for KC was:
Eldrazi (chalice/thorn/jitte removal, mimic/reshaper removal, delver return)
D&T (Tons of applications here really)
Delver (Kill + return/discard)
Shardless (Tons of applications)
I actually bought a fire covenant just so I have it as an available option. The card seems amazing and I definitely want to test it, but it doesn't address any specific problems so I don't feel like I need it for the GP. Good to know others have been happy with it though.
Noah Walker's latest list was mentioned in this article
http://legitmtg.com/competitive/side...against-lands/
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Gurmag Angler
Spells (28)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Dismember
Lands (18)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
Sideboard (15)
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Painful Truths
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Darkblast
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Forked Bolt
2 Baleful Strix
What's the consensus on Abrupt Decay versus no Abrupt Decay in a meta with a healthy amount of Chalice of the Void and Counterbalance?
I'm picking this up again after finally purchasing all the duals I need to finish it. Hoping everything shows up in time for EE next weekend:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Spell Pierce
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dread of Night
1 Fire Covenant
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Dismember
1 Painful Truths
I'm a big fan of Stifle so I'm like 90% set on running a Stifle version. Always a fan of Clique too, especially for an extra flier in the main with Eldrazi already. I've thought about a 1x Tombstalker for more pressure in the air too.
Sideboard is put together from looking at a few lists. I never played with Decay or Truths in the sideboard before, so I'm not sure how they'll perform. I did order a Flusterstorm, so I'm hoping to find some room in the board for that too.
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