It is because the importance to answer a turn one threat is more relevant via lightning bolt than casting a turn one black spell. It's not a huge variance as you have 8 fetch lands but it does make a difference.Originally Posted by Dissection
That's a very reasonable point, I didn't consider it but now seems so obvious! Thanks. Despite how bad it is with Delver and Daze playing a Badlands becomes more and more enticing. I'm a big fan of 19 lands too.
I don't buy this though, the % you gain from having that extra red source turn one isn't worth being wastedlanded off Seas. When I play against Grixis I never waste Volcs unless I'm very ahead on Tempo.
Right, and if it's available, I was under the impression that a turn 1 Deathrite is always the best play, other than bolting Mother of Runes before she is active. Is this incorrect?
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If your opponent opens with their own Deathrite on the play then Bolt is also preferable to Deathrite. The amount that Shardless or another Delver deck can pull ahead with 3 mana on turn 2 is probably too much to overcome, especially if they remove your Deathrite.
That makes good sense. Thanks. Now I can understand why some people are considering a Badlands, although not being able to daze to resolve a turn 1 play feels like an incorrect scenario.
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It's almost always the best play, but as mentioned there are a few where it may not be.
- If you're on the draw and your opponent played a Deathrite Shaman or Mother of Runes, best to Bolt it now.
- If you're on the draw against a potential T2 kill (Infect, Storm, etc.), sometimes it's better to Wasteland them T1.
- If you're on the play and need a fast clock, I prefer to play a Delver T1 and Deathrite T2.
The only situation I can see myself fetching a Badlands is to play around Choke, Otherwise, I'd rather cut a Wasteland or maybe the 3rd Volcanic for the 3rd Underground. The 3/2/1 split is so well-known that some players won't even bother Wasting your Volcs, especially if they're actively trying to keep you off Angler or Deathrite.
@Phyrexian Librarian:
You make some good points. I don't agree with the last one though (playing DRS over Delver against infect and storm):
- One of the best openers (disregarding YP->therapy here) you can have (no matter how many FoW, Stifles and soft counters you might have) is t1 u-sea=>DRS t2 volc=>delver holding open DRS. This allows you a super fast clock.
- Vs. storm this allows you to hold open DRS which is really important because you can screw with PIF and keep their gy in check that way. You also present a lot by keeping open 2 mana (stifle, spell pierce and brainstorm being the most important ones).
- Vs. Infect you really want the mana to play around their soft counters (Daze and Spell Pierce), also trading a t1 drs for a pump spell is better than trading t1 delver for a pump spell or glistener elf imo.
When Delver is your only blue card you should also definitely play out the DRS, no matter what deck you're playing against.
Another point about whether or not to play out DRS is whether you're tight on mana. If you have a YP in hand you pretty much want to play out DRS t1 no matter what (exception: your opponent has an uncracked fetch, you have a stifle and a second land OR your opponent plays a t1 drs otp).
Keeping 1 land + drs OTP is prefect imo, keeping it OTD is risky though imo (you opp could just kill and waste your drs when he untaps). In this case I will often times ponder on my first turn otd trying to find a second land, options are also holding up stifle and brainstorming eot (trying to find a land or cantrip).
I will always play out my DRS OTD with only 1 land when I have a FoW in hand though which I'll use to counter their removal spell. This loses to waste+decay after a t1 drs but that's a very narrow line and far less likely than t2 bolt + waste from the opponent.
I would play Delver on my first turn though if I have 3 (non-waste-) lands in hand. In this case you don't have much more stuff to do anyways and the faster clock is actually nice.
When you know you're playing against Eldrazi I would also tend to lead on Delver since it's a really good card against them and they can only dismember it once it flips (often times having to run a warping wail into daze).
I don't know if that was at all reasonable, it's pretty late here. As you can see though it's really difficult to say "that's how it is". So here's what rules of thumbs I would summarize:
I would use this order, so any bolt argument outclasses every DRS and Delver argument and every DRS argument outclasses every Delver argument.When you have a delver, a bolt and a drs in hand you hand on turn 1 you...
...bolt the opponent's mana elf. Exceptions might be Tropical into Noble Hierarch (infect) and t1 non-DRS elf (Elves).
...play a drs when
1. you have a FoW in hand and you don't want/have to pitch a blue card other than delver to it
2. you're tight on mana and you need to get your cantrips, YP going on t2
3. You only have 1 land in hand
...play a delver when
1. you know you're playing against Eldrazi or Miracles and you already have 2 lands in hand
2. you have 3+ (non waste-)lands in hand, so a fast clock is better to pull ahead because you won't need DRS's mana anyways and it's uncertain there'll be any cantrips to eat t2 when you play your delver.
Now to what I actually wanted to write:
I finally finished my Grixis Delver list on MtGO and (after a few days of practice matches to get the hang of it) I jumped into a league the other day.
It's my standard list:
creatures (13)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler
instants and sorceries (29)
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Terminate
lands (18)
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Wasteland
sideboard (15)
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pyroblast
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Flusterstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Forked Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Fire Covenant
I went 3-2:
1. BUG Opposition (drew Fire Covenant in both sideboard games, but didn't even need it) 2-1.
G1 I had the option of playing out my Wasteland, but didn't do it because I thought I only could use it the next turn anyways. As it turns out he played Coiling Oracle into Gaea's Cradle into Garruk Wildspeaker, untapping Cradle (I could've wasted there), playing Behemoth and I lose with FoW and Wasteland in hand.
G2 I land an early Grim Lavamancer + DRS. I don't even put on a clock, but just kill every creature besides Oracle and Visionary (which get negated by DRS). He finally concedes while I still have Fire Covenant in hand for when he "goes off". Also I stifled several lands there, he was forced to discard when he conceded.
G3 was similar. I kept a mediocre starting hand, but drew a Fire Covenant. Knowing I could tap out 1 turn because I also had FoW I advanced my board, next turn I killed a bunch of his stuff, stifle 2 of his lands, pyroblast a coiling oracle and he concedes while I again have Fire Covenant still in hand. This matchup seems just really favorable.
SB: g2 -4 FoW -3 Probe + Covenant, Pyroblast, F-Bolt, Lavamancer, Surgery and 2 decay. G3 I realized I really wanted like 2 Forces and cut 2 Anglers to bring in 2 FoW.
2. UR Delver: Very close games, Angler saved me G1, but got "set adrift" g2. I win a close game 3 thanks to YP against Bedlam Reveler, double dazing his Stormchaser Mage for 2 Tokens so he had to tap out, leaving me with exactly enough to win next turn even if he leaves both creatures behind to block. He plays a a Chain Lightning instead and I realized that I floated blue mana from daze off a volcanic island so I can't copy it. Punt! I still won for exactsies because he was 4 points off (Fireblast as his last card would've done it). 2-1
SB: -2 FoW, Pierce, 3 Probes, + Pyroblast, Fluster, F-Bolt, Lavamancer, 2 Decay.
3. WR Painter (I did an embarassing t2 misplay otd where I landed a YP after a t1 DRS and instead of leaving bolt open for his combo on t3 (he had already painter + grindstone) I left u-sea open for cabal therapy. He played a land and finished me the next turn. I was so embarassed. G3 I mulled to 5 and lost a grindy game, I totally deserved that loss though against this favorable matchup. 1-2
SB: -2 Angler, 4 Stifle, Terminate, +2 Needle, 2 Decay, Grudge, 2 Therapy
4. Eldrazi: I keep a hand with a bunch of counters and a ponder, but can't find a creature until like turn 5 an anglerwhere it's already too late. He has a bunch of caverns, so my counters don't do anything. I stifle one TKS and one Oblivion Sower (he's playing a big eldrazi deck, I'll talk about it down the line) and lost game
1. G2 I mull to 5 (7 was 2x volc 2x drs 2x probe bolt, 6 had only wasteland as mana) and lose to a quick clock. This deck just wrecked me. Note that I boarded like I was used to against the "small" Eldrazi, leaving in all the bolts and not siding in Cabal Therapies. 0-2
SB: -4 Stifle, 1 Probe, 1 Pierce, + Covenant, Lavamancer, F-Bolt, 2 Decay, Grudge
5. Miracles: Game 1 otd my opponent leads with a SDT and passes. I play t1 Delver. He tops t2 and plays a land, I land a DRS (have 2x Force + BS in hand).
He lands a Counterbalance which I force pitching the Brainstorm, he draws with top and forces back. I draw a blue card next turn, managing to force his top before it comes down again. He draws nothing and I beat him for 5 each turn.
Game 2 I have a t1 Pithing Needle. I preemptively name SDT, not sure that's right though (it's not better once he plays the top, it's always card disadvantage for me). I lose to a Jace after he answers all my threats.
G3 I play Usea and a preemptive Needle on SDT on t1. He plays Polluted Delta and passes. Since I have stifle, I play a Flooded Strand and a DRS. He plays an island and passes. I brainstorm on my next turn and he brainstorms in response. I let it resolve, he then cracks his fetch which I eat with DRS so I don't have to crack my land before my bs resolves. This manascrewed him severely and I managed to land a Delver the following turn. He never drew much more than 2 more islands and landed a counterbalance. I had drew decay and was weary about exposing myself to Vendilion Clique (he can flash in response to DRS making green). I draw second decay, but never play anything and bring him down to 0 life with 6 cards in hand. I kept the decay in case he flashes in a clique to block my delver because I'd have to kill it. 2-1
-2 Wasteland, 2 Daze, Terminate, 2 Bolts, + 2 needles, Pyroblast, Flusterstorm, Surgery, 2 decay
So yeah, 3-2 in my first Legacy League. Still super embarassed about not killing painter servant t2 with bolt, fow, daze and ancient grudge in hand. The last time I was that embarassed was when I tilted against my opp playing the new TNN 2 years ago and I attacked into it the turn after with my swiftspear. Vs. Eldrazi my draws were not representative imo (not finding any threats until really late and mulling to 5), I looked forward to playing against it again.
So, since I made my money back I decided to play another League today. I was way less anxious than yesterday which was good (not playing that much competitive Legacy these days).
Round 1: RW Painter (Strawberry Shortcake)
G1: My opponent has a rather slow start and I just beat him with a quick DRS and Gurmag Angler while bolting his Painter Servant while he was tapped out.
G2: I keep a hand with double daze, drs, probe and therapy. My opponent t1 blood moons me and I concede. No point in playing to my outs with YP and bots, I can do that when he is at a low life and has no cards but not on t1.
G3 he mulls to 5 (perhaps mulling to a blood moon). I kept a rather clunky hand with a fetchland (had to fetch volcanic) and a tropical, but Delver, YP and a FoW with blue. He pyroblasts my delver, I then land a YP. He enlightened tutors for a Painter Servant and plays it. I still couldn't find a blue land, but my 2 FoW in hand are now actually turned on with Abrupt Decay and Cabal Therapy. He goes for my YP with a Pyroblast and I bolt his Servant in response (negating his PB). He pyroblasts it, I force back pitching Cabal Therapy and he concedes.
SB: -2 Angler, 4 Stifle, Terminate, +2 Needle, 2 Decay, Grudge, 2 Therapy; 2-1
Round 2: UB Reanimator:
G1: Because he led with a fetchland I managed to stifle and waste him off his mana, he concedes as I land a DRS on t3.
G2: I keep a hand with 2 lands, DRS, Surgical, but no FoW. He lands a t1 Pithing Needle on DRS and I can do nothing about it. I brainstorm (finding another shaman). I knew Pithing Needle would be a thing, but because of his decays I didn't bother siding in against one specific card.
So I shuffled away my both shamans and leaned on disruption heavily to hopefully find a creature at some point. Because of a Therapy in my hand I surgicaled his Elesh Norn to get a look at his hand, but forgot to click on it so it doesn't actually exile. Big punt, but I finally draw a YP on like t7 and narrowly win, having exhausted all my resources, by Dazing his last Reanimate after he pondered for it with only 2 lands in play.
SB: -2 Angler, -4 Bolt, -1 Terminate, +3 therapy, surgical, flusterstorm, surgery, pyroblast; 2-0
Round 3: Storm
G1: I have a t1 DRS, t2 Volc Delver, but don't draw any more lands (perhaps I wasted him one). I force a Dark Ritual that he plays with a Lotus Petal. It comes down to me holding up U-sea, Volc and DRS with Daze, Stifle and Brainstorm in hand when my opponent goes off. I decide to not dig for a Force for his first ritual but daze it, leaving him with only black mana. He plays a duress and takes my Stifle. After making 8 mana via rituals he plays infernal tutor as his last card. I brainstorm in response and draw a force. A stifle would've been enough here since he had only black mana, not enough life for Ad Nauseam and no way to play past in flames (which DRS would've shut off anyways with only 1 tutor).
G2: I keep a hand with Gitaxian Probe, Therapy, Daze and YP. He goes off he goes Petal into Rituals into LED, Past in Flames and makes exactly 20 goblins.
G3: I have a really good starting hand and keep FoW, Surgery, Delver, YP, DRS, fetchland and Stifle. Despite paranoia I lead with t1 DRS. Even without FoW this would've been my line, there's no reason to hold up stifle and surgery when I don't know if I draw a 2nd land to play my creatures.
He plays t1 Petal into Dark Rit. I play FoW playing Delver (another reason not to play that guy t1: I had way too many creatures in hand). He passes the turn.
I play an additional land, a YP and pass the turn. He draws a fetch and plays it, but I stifle it. He doesn't draw another land and I quickly beat him with YP and DRS.
SB: -2 Angler, 4 Bolts, Terminate, + Surgery, Flusterstorm, 3 therapies, surgical, pyroblast; 2-0
Round 4: Grixis Delver
G1: I keep an uncomfortable hand with 3 lands, wasteland, DRS, Ponder and Bolt. My opponent probes me and bolts. I know that deck!
I shy away from wasting his volc (I'd rather hit black and I have bolt to deal with stuff), so I play Volc and Ponder (don't want it to get dazed since I'm already light on action). I find Brainstorm Daze and YP. He wastes me which is super fine for me, I just play a Delver and fetch. He bolts, next turn I play my YP and waste back (since he fetched for his 2nd volc I figured he was just UR). Fortunately all he has is a YP on his own which I Bolt. I get more tokens than he can keep up with since he doesn't find an answer immediately and keep FoW and Probe and 2 open mana to prevent him from landing an Angler (paranoid, I propably could've won even if he did).
G2: He mulls to 6, I keep a hand of FoW, Daze, Ponder, Decay, YP, Strand + Trop. I try to force (pitching daze) his T1 DRS (gives him lots of tempo, he's already behind 1 card), but he dazes back. I decay his DRS on my 2nd turn and he follows it up with a Gurmag Angler, playing right into my Daze. Seemed suspicious and of course he also had a daze, but I had to try. I begin to sweat and play my YP into Ponder, finding additional cantrips. I find Bolt, Delver and Lavamancer and decide to play the lavaman. He then plays his 4th land and plays Fire Covenant. Fortunately I have Flusterstorm in hand and I play it, but don't realize until 10 min later that my clock is ticking because MtGO wanted me to stack my triggers for YP and Flusterstorm. Oh well, that tempo loss shut the door, opponent told me he had Pyroblast in hand (1 mana open). I'm glad I checked my clock after browing 10 min on imgur, wondering why my opponent didn't concede or pass priority (he had only 1 mana and 1 card in hand, I knew there was no card in magic history that could prevent my flusterstorm).
Sideboarding (I don't like Fire Covenant because it's expensive and loses the game if it doesn't resolve): -2 FoW, 3 Probe, Pierce, +Flusterstorm, Pyroblast, F-Bolt, Lavamancer, 2 Decay; 2-0
Round 5: Big Eldrazi *yikes*
G1: My opponent is otp for G1 and leads with Ancient Tomb into Grim Monolith. I Force it (thinking of MUD). I draw an additional Force and have the option of playing either Wasteland or DRS. I should've played my Shaman there because I can still force whatever he plays on his turn (nothing scary with colorless manafor 3 mana when he plays cavern of souls) and waste him on my next turn,giving me 2 mana to do stuff.
Oh well, stupid as I am I waste immediately and he drops 2 Eldrazi temple in a row, TKS-ing and Oblivion Sowering me ftw. Not sure I could've done anything there since his start was really good and I didn't have any creatures besides 1 angler and 1 drs which got quickly outclassed by cavern into smasher and multiple oblivion sowers.
Sideboarding: I sideboarded differently this time than the day before. I knew they were only playing Endless one and Eldrazi Mimic, pretty much nothing else died to bolt (they had Grim Monolith instead to play on t1 or t2)! This made my burn significantly worse compared to the traditional Eldrazi matchup, but I realized that at the same time they were leaving themselves open to Cabal Therapy getting their stuff (and they were pretty predictable: t2 TKS, t3 Smasher or Oblivion Sower given they only play sol lands).
So I sided in the full package of Cabal Therapies and cut 2 FoW (in game 3 I would realize my mistake and bring them back in siding out 2 bolts).
The correct sideboarding I think might be: -4 Stifle, 2 Bolt, Pierce, + Covenant, 2 decay, grudge, 3 therapy
G2: I have a hand of Delver, Yp, Daze, Grudge, Fetch and Wasteland. This hand seems rather insane and I lead with Delver. My opponent plays a t1 Chalice and I grin. Delver doesn't flip (fetchland) and I play a t2 YP with the swamp fetchland thanks to Urborg. This gave me the opportunity to crack my fetchland on my next upkeep as I only saw another land. My opponent didn't play anything and passed the turn, eot I grudged the Chalice.
I wasted his Eldrazi temple and swung for a big tempo hit he couldn't recoup from.
G3: My 7 is FoW and a bunch of stuff, but no land besides Wasteland. I might be desperate, but not THAT desperate. I mull to 6 followin my opponent's example. He keeps, I get a hand with a bunch of lands and DRS, the worst creature in this matchup. Ouff! Mull to 5 it is! I get again a non-lander, but at least 2 YP and a Delver (also Therapy and I think DRS).
My scry reveals another Delver. Sorry, you have to go.
My opponent leads on Cavern of Souls and passes. I draw a Volcanic. YES! I play out my Delver and pass back.
The Eldrazi player plays a basic Wastes and Chalice for 1. Ouch. Hm, this is gonna be tough, but I feel safe with a potentially flipped Delver and 2 YP that can create tokens even if the spells themselves get countered.
Delver reveals a flooded strand. Hm, this might be even better than a flipped delver. I play my YP, attack for 1 and pass.
My opponent doesn't play a land but an Eldrazi Mimic.
My delver trigger only sees another delver and I swing with both creatures, fearing what the opponent might draw. He trades with the YP.
Next turn he just passes the turn. There's hope! I flip my Delver with a FoW (which is live due to Delver in hand) and land another YP. The next turns I continue attacking in the air and make a token with Cabal Therapy. I force a Jitte and trade my YP for Mimic after having created a third token with a Daze on my own DRS.
He brings down a TKS, taking my last card: A useless Delver. I have Delver and 3 tokens left while my opponent is at 5 life, has 0 mana open and only a TKS on the board. The only card I could lose to is Gutshot but even that's not possible due to Chalice (I don't think he had Urborg for a hypothetical Slaughter Pack). I let out a big sigh of relieve, I don't know if I even breathed during the match.
I can't believe my luck as I emerge with a 5-0 in my second league! I certainly made mistakes (2 because of modo and 1 because of magic, but if I reviewed the matches I'm sure more could be found) but am just super happy with my result.
Noob question: Will my name be potentially somewhere on mtgtop8.com now? Is a 5-0 (10-3) automatically enough?
Also who has played against the Big Eldrazi deck yet? What are your boarding decisions? Do you keep in bolts at all?
Last edited by Agrippa91; 09-15-2016 at 09:41 AM.
My last point was about playing a Delver when you need a fast clock, not against a fast clock. My example was that it's sometimes correct to Waste your opponent's T1 land on your own T1 if you think they can kill you T2, like both Infect and Storm can. I agree that in both of those matchups, Delver isn't what you want to be doing either. The rest of your logic makes a lot of sense.
Grats on the finish! I'm seeing more Stifle builds going 5-0 in events, brb buying out TCGPlayer
Can you give an example when you "need a fast clock"? I assumed it was when you're about to die/get locked out of the game so I figured Eldrazi, combo or counter/top lock of miracles.
Hey guys, fairly new to the Legacy scene and am looking for a little advice.
I've recently picked up the deck and absolutely love it - it's a blast to play. My list is fairly stock:
Lands (18)
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
3x Volcanic Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
4x Wasteland
Creatures (14)
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Young Pyromancer
2x Gurmag Angler
Non-Creatures (28)
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Cabal Therapy
1x Forked Bolt
1x Spell Pierce
Sideboard (15)
2x Baleful Strix
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Pyroblast
1x Invasive Surgery
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Dismember
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Painful Truths
1x Pithing Needle
2x Winter Orb
Just a couple questions:
1) My overall "what's good against what" isn't great as I've played so little of the format. Is there any particular popular matchup I'm overcompensating for at the expense of another with my maindeck/sideboard configuration?
2) Stifle. I don't have Stifles in my build, but I'm absolutely considering it, seeing as a lot of people on here seem to be keen on the card. I've noticed that those list are cutting Cabal Therapies for them, so in what matchups is one configuration better than the other? Or is it more of a variation in playstyle?
1: Grixis is pritty resilient vs alot of match ups, this is proberly the reaosn why it's the top tier Tempo deck for a while.
If you find yourself having a hard time vs any kind of match up you can just tweek a couple main or SB cards and turn those odds really easy while holding the deck together. The stock list is overal the most flexible I guess.
2: Using 4 Probes and 2 Therapys vs 2 Probes and 4 Stifle (for what I've seen people make the cut like this) is as much playstyle preference as well as meta-call. Stifles are better in tempo match-ups while Therapy are better in other situations.
I think I want to try force spike in this list, probably just one, I love spell Pierce but the times it doesn't hit the spell really sucks
Since people are already playing around Daze vs Delver decks Force Spike it truly terrible here. I wouldn't advise it.
I tried to do a quick summary of your sb cards for you.
Cabal vs Stifle is a playstyle call. Stifle is more tempo, cabal is grindier.
Also, Agrippa91, grats on your 5-0!
@ Agrippa91: very good results Congrats!!!
I've seen your name in mtgtop8
Your Stilfe's list is solid and, after months of testing, you know how to play.
I like the Terminate in your main deck but i don't like Grim Lavamancer in your side, can i ask you why Grim Lavamancer and no other card?
How to improve our matchup vs Grixis and Death & Taxes in your thoughts?
You side-in Abrupt vs Eldrazi i suppose..
Yeah, I saw it finally 2 days after my finish@ Agrippa91: very good results Congrats!!!
I've seen your name in mtgtop8
Your Stilfe's list is solid and, after months of testing, you know how to play.
I like the Terminate in your main deck but i don't like Grim Lavamancer in your side, can i ask you why Grim Lavamancer and no other card?
How to improve our matchup vs Grixis and Death & Taxes in your thoughts?
You side-in Abrupt vs Eldrazi i suppose..
I have Grim Lavamancer in there pretty much against every creature deck there is, including Delver decks (not RUG and UWR though). I keep it in because there's quite a lot of white stompy-type decks around that play Thalias, so it seems better than just another Forked Bolt. Note also that with Sanctum Prelate naming 1 we can still play Grim Lavamancer (Revokers blindly will name DRS).
It's also just solid against something like Shardless BUG and other "value" decks.
I can see people playing another Forked Bolt instead, but I wouldn't play a Dread of Night or Darkblast instead because I already cut my 5th bolt for terminate and I want to have as many answers to DRS as possible since that's a very potent card against me (often times shutting off Stifle, Wasteland and Daze).
I bring in Abrupt Decay vs. Chalice decks, yes. I really like having 3 answers to Chalice postboard because I can draw into it naturally. It's nearly impossible for them to shut me off DRS AND Tropical so that's rather safe. It's also nice that it hits Endless One.
Against D&T it's a bit harder, but the card is worth it imo (especially because it kills Jitte which crushes this deck. Also nice against Sanctum Prelate naming 1)
The mistake I made earlier with this card was saving it. Very often you just want to play tempo and answering a threat on curve can be more important than being prepared for every possible scenario. With this board you have a lot of redundancy anyways (multiple answers to big creatures, artifacts and goyfs unlike other sbs that play e.g. Baleful Strix).
I went 0-3 last night with the Stifle build, a combination of bad matchups (R1 1-2 against Eldrazi, R2 0-2 against RUG Lands) and probably bad boarding decisions on my part. But my R1 opponent called you out by name, Agrippa! You're basically famous now!
Curious about the Shardless matchup, which I went 1-2 against but it was very close: I found myself boarding out almost all of my counterspells, and bringing in all the additional removal, plus Pyroblast, Ancient Grudge, and Pithing Needle (for Liliana). Does that sound right?
do you guys have some pointers for the mana less Dredge match up? I don't see the deck very often but lately there's been a few at my local weekly event. just not sure the best way to attack the strategy, especially now that they have prized amalgam.
also I guess it's time to retune my SB. Dredge and D&T are now like 50% of the meta.
also best SB answers to TNN?
thanks
I was your R1 opponent :P
Agrippa and I stalk each other on here and twitch watching coverage :x
I think 1 or 2 forces on the draw is ok vs Shardless.. There are some things that you really can't let resolve if you can help it.
Manaless dredge? Just keep in all your countermagic, play DRS and surgical right?
SB Answers to TNN? I don't think there are much unless you want to run a marsh casualties or something. Don't let it resolve ;)
I've always favored the Shardless match up (Stifles main deck myself).
Basicly hate on the mana or Stifle the Ancestral Vision/Shardless Agent and they are left with almost nothing to fight you.
Cut FoW and add removal/Pyrolast from the side. You can cut Probes for more impact spells too or just keep them to create fast tokens with Pyromancer.
If there is a lot of BUG around I reccomand adding 1 or 2 Mizzium Skin in the board for both Decay and sweepers.
For Manaless you should let them start if possible so you draw an extra card (since they don't do anything turn 1) and keep all counters there. Drop Shaman ASAP with a trop and remove the Ichorid and Prized Amalgam first (or the dredgers if you can keep up, but this is not the case most of the time).
Surgical on triggered Narcomoeba can also be a thing to keep creatures from entering the field.
Don't forget you can bolt one of your creatures/tokens to get rid of Bridges.
Or just drop Cage and watch them scoop.
Edit:
Also I don't really think you need a SB awnser to TNN (apart from the Pyroblasts) at the moment. You can run around it or backswing with the stocks list.
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