Thanks for the replies everyone!
I've changed my boarding notes as follows:
ANT
-1 Forked bolt -2 Angler -3 Lightning Bolt (Taking out an extra bolt since I run v-clique instead of TNN)
+1 Cabal Therapy +1 EE +2 Surgical Extraction +2 Pyroblast
Sneak and Show/Reanimator
-1 Forked Bolt -2 Angler -3 Lightning Bolt
+1 Pithing Needle +2 Pyroblast +1 Cabal Therapy +2 Surgical Extraction
IS surgical useful against Sneak and Show? They don't really use their GY until after they've gotten value?
Stoneblade (Keep WL in vs Deathblade, maybe drop an extra FoW?)
-4 Daze/FoW -1 WL -1 Spell Pierce
+1 Cabal Therapy +2 Painful Truths +1 Ancient Grudge +1 Pithing Needle +1 Grim Lavamancer
I have a few more to run by you guys:
Nic Fit
I feel daze gets useless fast, so I would do the following:
-2 WL -3 Daze/FoW -1 Forked
+2 Painful Truths +2 Baleful Strix +1 Cabal +1 Dismember
I've been back and forth on Surgical in this matchup. Surgicaling Vets seems great if you manage to counter one. Otherwise surgicaling them feels lackluster since they get value already. However, with most lists running Meren, or Recurring Nightmare, maybe it's worth it for that reason? Not sure on Cabal either, since they run a lot of one ofs? However, you can see/cabal their later threats before they can cast them. Dazes and WLs felt much more useless in the matchup. What are your guys' thoughts?
12 Post (Feels like I need to board the same as vs Combo, as they run Sneak as a secondary win con)
-1 Forked Bolt -2 Angler -3 Lightning Bolt
+1 Pithing Needle +2 Pyroblast +1 Cabal Therapy +2 Surgical Extraction
Dazes get useless fast, do you guys think that the Dazes should stay in, and keep the bolts for reach?
Infect
-2 Angler -2 Daze/FoW?
+1 Pithing Needle +2 Pyroblast +1 Cabal Therapy
I'm unsure what to board out here. I feel like I want all my removal, but a good amount of countermagic as well. Hand disruption is also useful. I guess just 2 Daze out OTD, 1Daze/1FoW or 2FoW out OTP?
I really don't like Surgical against Sneak&Show. Most of the time they'll go for their combo when it's really early. Surgical isn't good there except when you have enough counters when they go for it anyways. Surgicaling their stuff just seems like "win-more" to me. The card disadvantage might even come back to bite you when they go for it afterwards with their other win-con.
Yeah, those were pretty much my thoughts as well.Originally Posted by Agrippa91
I think you're leaning on surgical way too much. I had a pro tell me after a match once that "surgical extraction should only come in if it can hit something that will immediately win you the game". The example that he used was something like lands where you would snag a loam and turn their engine off.
What are your suggestions?
It's in vs Reanimator and ANT, both of which use the GY (already decided that it's pretty dead against Sneak/Show). Reanimator is obvious to bring them in with.
ANT sort of uses the GY, but not too much. On the flip side I would get to keep both Anglers in, or more bolts.
12 post is the other deck I've considered bringing it in against. Not convinced I need it there either. Surgicaling a Show and Tell seems okay-ish. On the flip side, I would either get to keep more threats or bolts. I think originally I didn't bring them in. It seemed more important to stay aggro against 12post.
In the past I've had a bad habit of bringing Surgical in against too many things, I've been trying to trim that down.
I think one has to be aware that Surgical is a card that could be anything you left in instead, e.g. a bolt. The only good play for Surgical is Cloudpost and a threat/show&tell, but therefore you must have defeated these threats already (via counter/wasteland). When you play out the matches though you'll realize that most of the time you get stuck with just a surgical in hand and your opponent goes for the combo while you're stuck with a dead card in hand.
Also what is the general consent of Pyroblast/Surgicals against Storm? I find these cards good, but narrow so I'm really glad I only have 1 of each in my sideboard, I don't know if I'd board in more.
What I did was merging my second Pyroblast/Surgical into Invasive Surgery: It's a great card against Combo, Lands and Miracles so I don't see any reason to have these narrow cards. This also frees up an additional sideboard slot.
I started playing ANT myself and I must say that I'm happy every time my opponent doesn't have an avtive drs because it means I can get for a way easier kill via PiF. Especially postboard without Ad Nauseam I'd have to actually cast 8-9 spells otherwise which can be quite hard.
I also found out that Stifle against ANT is good whenever they don't go for PiF or don't have a discard spell in their gy. Otherwise you just have to try to get them off a color, stifling lands only helps when they struggle on mana otherwise. (but still makes your dazes and wastelands actually do something).
Surgical goes a long way against ANT when they go for PiF: You can deny them a tutor if they need one or cut off a mana by getting a ritual. I also have surgicaled a discard spell on their upkeep when I only needed 1-2 turns and I had FoW in hand which they needed to get rid off.
You can also get cute and use surgical to get a card you know they have in their hand (when it's also in their gy) because you have a lot of information with probe/therapy/clique, but that's not the reason Surgical is boarded in.
REB/Pyro seem questionable vs storm. I've been wondering the same thing myself.
For me the question becomes, would I rather have bolts/anglers instead? Angler being more of a threat, but I think they usually bring in some number of Chain of Vapor, correct?
Did some testing vs Reanimator and Infect tonight.
I don't know about you guys, but Pyroblast feels a little awkard in the matchup. It's really only good in counter wars. I guess that's all you need it in for. What do you guys think about Ancient Grudge to blow up needles targeting our DRS? It feels better than the last lightning bolt would be.
vs Infect
Cabal didn't feel super useful in the MU tbh. What are your guys' thoughts on Cabal vs Infect?
This is my boarding strategy now for Infect:
-2 Angler -4 Gitaxian Probe -2 Cabal Therapy -1 Fow/Daze
+1 Pithing Needle +1 Darkblast + 2 Baleful Strix +2 Pyroblast +1 Ancient Grudge +1 Grim Lavamancer +1 Dismember
Last edited by Jaytron; 04-24-2016 at 02:37 AM.
Pyroblast is an obvious side in vs reanimator, imo. Not only is it useful in counter wars/stops their cantripping, it will also counter one of their main enablers (careful study) and Show and Tell, if they decide to bring that in to get around DRS/other postboard gy hate.
Good point. Some of the lists I've been playing against bring in decay instead of the SnT package. In that case Pyroblast seems pretty narrow? I dunno. I could be wrong. Pyroblasting a Careful Study blind feels ok.
I've been doing a lot of thinking regarding the Infect MU
Cabal didn't feel super useful in the MU tbh. What are your guys' thoughts on Cabal vs Infect?
This is my boarding strategy now for Infect:
-2 Angler -4 Gitaxian Probe -2 Cabal Therapy -1 FoW/Daze
+1 Pithing Needle +1 Darkblast + 2 Baleful Strix +2 Pyroblast +1 Ancient Grudge +1 Grim Lavamancer +1 Dismember
On the flipside, you can keep the probe/cabal package, but ditch all the Fow/Dazes
Do we have enough removal to rely on just cabals to keep them off useful cards?
Hey guys!
Yesterday I played another 63-player tournament with Noah's list (and a HUGE hangover).
2-1 UR delver with TITI
2-0 UWR Stoneblade with Bolt
2-1 Enchantress
2-0 Infect
ID
ID
T8: 2-0 Infect
T4: 1-2 Grixis Delver
I was pretty happy with the Cabals this time and would just change up the sideboard a little.
Nice job again! What are you boarding strategies vs Enchantress/Infect/Stoneblade?
Enchantress:
-2 Cabal Therapy, + Explosives, +Pithing Needle
Infect:
-3 pyromancer, -2 Angler, + Pithing Needle, +Ancient Grudge, +2 Pyroblast, +Dismember
Stoneblade:
-2/3 Force, -2/3 Daze, + Lavamancer, +Peedle, +Ancient Grudge, +2 Pyroblast
Do you not like strix vs infect? You keep in all your probes and therapies? Do you feel threat light, dropping that many creatures?
Lavamancer feels really good against infect too, so far.
I didn't play any Strix yesterday, otherwise I would. I usually drop to 8 creatures (delver, deathrite) when playing against decks without removal (combo). I saw others disagreed with this approach and that's okay with me. To each his own.
Ah, ok.
One more question, did you consider bringing Painful Truths in vs Stoneblade? Were you running them?
I played Flusterstorm over Painful Truths but I would've boarded both of them (Painful Truths) in as Cabal Therapy and 141's combined with Painful Truths seems like a powerful strategy against that deck.
hey all a quick tournament report for all from a weekly.
List is the standard 2 cabal therapy, 1 pierce, 1 forked bolt build, with 3 pyro and a TNN. SB is also pretty stock for the current times, with -1 EE + 1 invasive surgery.
Round 1: Vs infect
G1: I probe turn 1 and he has a crap hand and I run him over.
SB: -2 therapy, -3 probe -1 daze, -1 spell pierce +2 pyroblast +1 darkblast +1 dismember +2 strix +1 ancient grudge
G2: its pretty close with him on the play. He has a become imense in hand which I'm playing around to the best of my ability keeping his graveyard low. Strix does some work this game soaking up an inkmoth. one line I don't play around is crop rotation into inkmoth become imense. Used DRS on my turn giving him an opening to fill his yard enough to play it. Punished.
G3: open with something like DRS, 2 bolts, delver, land, wasteland. draw a forked bolt for my first drawstep. Game is pretty much over before it begins. GG
Round 2: BUG delver
this match up can feel pretty rough at times, hym and decay can be a beating.
G1: he has a typical delver tempo draw keeping me off much of anything meaningful for much of the game. Delver flies. Goyf is big.
SB something like: -2 therapy, -2 probe, -1 FoW, -1 pierece + 1 dismember +2 Strix + 2 painful truths +1 lavamancer
G2: early I locked up the combat step up with a strix and a pyromancer and angler to his board of goyf and delver. He finds the golgari charm binning much of my board, but more importantly buffing goyf to be gigantic. I take some goyf beats, and go down to 2-3 from a painful truths. Finds me another angler to shrink the goyfs. turning my anglers into the abyss and he is at 4 life. GG
G3: 10 min left on the clock. I felt really solid as I had crafted this game pretty well. He lands an early bob thats able to get me to around 10. My whole game plan revolves around landing a pyromancer after playing some delvers and other stuff to get as much removal out of his hand as possible, so I can play a painful truths the same turn as the pyromancer. Am able to pull it off pulling me way ahead on cards with at some point along the way wasting him off green for a number of turns. He has a delver but I have the bolt for it. Board is a stalemate with him taking a bunch from his bob triggers but not finding anything super relvant along the way. He plays a 2nd bob for some reason and gets in bolt range. GG
round 3: "I hate blue.dec"
deck is some strange combination of pox and aggro loam? its WBG with vindicate, lili, pox, sink hole, chalice, loam, etc. ouch.
G1: I have turn 2 double delver and DRS. He decides to kill the DRS as the delvers arent flipped. Wrong choice, they flip next turn putting him on a 3 turn clock.
SB something like: -2 therapy, -3 probe, -1 forked bolt +2 surgical, +1 invasive surgery, +1 ancient grudge +2 painful truths
G2: mull a reasonable mix of lands and spells on 7 as its only threat is a TNN which feels to slow and folds easily to a lili. no cantrips either. End up punting on lands down to 4. Keep a no lander with DRS and probe. Bottom something irrelevant with the scry to draw into, a volc! perfect. I let him kill me with factory to see more of his deck.
G3: mull to 6 and keep a reasonable hand of delver, bolt, some countermagic, and lands. I get the early delver flip and start hitting him in the air. I daze a pox, and he untaps into mox diamond choke, I bolt him in response getting him down to 6. Untap draw..a bolt, with my tapped volc and my untapped sea. hit him to three. He slams liliana. so close, yet so far. GG
Round 3: reanimator
Game 1: Have the turn 1 DRS on the play. So hard for them to beat, game goes as expected
SB: -2 bolt, -1 forked bolt, -2 angler, -1 TNN +2 pyroblast +1 invasive surgery +2 surgical extraction +1 cabal therapy
Game 2: a little longer affair with him decaying a DRS into pithing needle on DRS. I waste keeping him off black. He bricks on lands for a while allowing me to sculpt my hand with tons of countermagic. Delver takes FOREVER to flip, but not as long as it took him to find black mana, giving me the time to find the counters.
Nice to finally feel like my reps with the deck have paid off, not necessarily just due to the record but I felt like I had a good sense of the lines to take with the deck and a better feel of how to evaluate which one was most optimal (at least more often than I had felt previously)
Nice job on your weeklies!
Have you noticed any "sequencing gotchas" that are just now occurring to you?
Had a rough run at a weekly. Got blown out hard by Jitte in different matches... didn't feel good.
How do you guys board against Aluren? It's an odd deck, because I feel like I want to bring in a good amount of removal, since they ARE a creature deck. But I can't really afford to board out much countermagic, because a resolved Aluren will just win them the game.
I think I did something like this:
-2 Gurmag Angler -1 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Grim Lavamancer, +1 Darkblast +1 Cabal Therapy
I thought about Surgical. Being able to Surgical Aluren after winning a counter war feels pretty game ending. They have a high density of artifact creatures, and they are also mostly blue. Maybe Pyroblast and Ancient Grudge are worth bringing in?
I also tried something different vs Reanimator:
-2 Gurmag -3 Bolt -1 Forked Bolt -1 Gitaxian Probe
+2 Surgical +1 Cabal Therapy +2 Pyroblast +2 Painful Truths
I felt like I lost to Reanimator when they ran us out of countermagic and the game got really grindy. Painful truths felt great when this was the case. I think we run enough countermagic to really push them into the grindy portion of the game. I've been thinking of bringing in Ancient Grudge to take care of opposing needles, what do you guys think?
Against Aluren, I like +1 ancient grudge, +2 REB and +X extra removal. I like taking out -2 angler, -X gitaxian probe. -2 therapy.
They're able to clog up the ground between Shardless agent and Recruiter, and the air with Baleful Strixes. This makes Angler quite a bad threat, and going wide with Pyromancer a little tougher. Therapy isn't amazing because the whole deck is made of value, so grabbing individual cards doesn't make a huge splash.
As for the combo side, REB/Pyroblast are the only way to break up the combo with one card once they land an Aluren. Aluren costs 4 mana, daze is very good against that. The game plan is to wasteland/daze them off of Aluren. Its not really worth bringing in Surgical, it doesn't win you the game and only does something if you're already ahead.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote