Sounds exciting. Congrats on your finish!Originally Posted by eyeownyu
This is my decklist, props to fire and dice for holding a sweet tournament!
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11772&f=LE
Also here is a link to my finals matches on stream
http://www.twitch.tv/fadgames/v/52651285
Leading up to the event
I've been an avid RUG delver player for quite some time now, I've done decent with the deck but decided to try something new. RUG is an extremely powerful deck, I just felt that too many times it would come down to making one little mistake and suddenly you lose the game because of it. I wanted the same feel as RUG but just a tiny bit more raw power. The few weekends before this tournament I played Jim Davis' BUG delver list with 3 dark confidants and 3 stifle. I liked the deck, and I missed top 8 due to misplays on my part. I had never played deathrite before, and obviously I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I couldn't tell if I liked playing abrupt decay. Sure it hits so many things that RUG (and even grixis) can't take care of, but it was extremely taxing on my mana.
Leading up to this tournament Noah Walker wins the SCG with grixis, and my cabal therapys came in the mail right on time, so I figured why not give it a try so I sleeved up my lightning bolts!
Deck configuration
I'm a sucker for stifle. I wanted to play that card so bad, but with the help of play testing on cockatrice a bit and theory crafting with friends, I decided against it. With pyro you want to be playing proactive spells, not reactive. Also since grixis is slightly more powerful than RUG, I felt like I could let the game go a bit longer compared to playing RUG, and the stifles were not needed. Without stifle I was scared of a few matchups. Both shardless and miracles seem way harder without stifle. Luckily I didn't see a single miracles player, but I did beat shardless in the finals.
Now I know I just said you want proactive spells with pyro, so why no therapys in the main? I personally don't like discard. I don't know if I'm just bad at it, or not used to playing the color black, but in general i tend to not play discard main. I also don't like therapy against most fair decks. Sure the pyro combo is insane, but I don't think that makes up for the blind therapy misses you get if you don't draw probe. And even if you do draw probe, it usually just ends up being a thought seize.
I chose true name over clique in the main simply due to local meta. Sure clique is more versatile because it is good against combo and still fine against fair decks, while TNN is terrible against combo. There is a lot of DnT, shardless, and maverick (ish) decks in my area along with delver mirrors. Also with all of my therapys in the side I felt like post board i would beat combo, and maybe even just steal a game 1 with delver, daze, force.
I put one dismember main and cut a forked bolt simply to free up a sideboard slot. Also it played well into my local meta of maverick and shardless. The only other thing i can think of that is a bit different from a stock list is the sulfur elemental instead of dread of night. Almost all miracle players in my local meta are on mentor in the main, so i figured the sulfur elemental is an extra card to bring in against miracles whereas dread of night can't come in against miracles. Sulfur elemntal is still a blowout against DnT, but it is vulnurable to removal unlike dread. If i were to change it I would actually play one of each in my board.
Round 1 against G/B reanimator (?)
Game 1: I have a turn 1 DRS and a daze, so its a fine hand. My opponent mulls to 5 and leads with a swamp. He misses land drops and does nothing. Then around turn 4 with his single swamp, he casts a dark ritual. I smell a combo deck so I daze it because he simply has nothing else going on. He passes the turn and then scoops the game a few minutes later.
Game 2: I put him on storm so I board in my therapys, fluster, and surgicals. Luckily my board plan for storm is similar to reanimator because that is what he turned out to be. A twist, he was on black green reanimator playing deathrite shamans and grim monolith. Game 2 i literally lose to double deathrites draining me for the entire game beacause I have like 1 bolt left in my deck. At this point I'm super confused about what I'm playing against, but i board back in a few bolts for game 3.
Game 3: the mother of all punts. I dont remember much, I just remember there were several lines I could have taken to win, but i just misplayed. I had 2 deathrites out but instead of getting a second black, I got my trop. He was killing me with a hard cast grave titan off a monolith and the life gain gave me an extra turn. But it turns out he wastelanded my only black source and I was off by a turn. I was super salty losing this way, especially round 1
Round 2 against grixis delver
Game 1: He wins the dice roll and goes turn 1 delver. My hand was super cantrip heavy so i spend the first few turns taking delver hits but sculpting my hand. I finally kill his delver and stick my own delver. He eventually kills my delver and drops an angler. At first I think angler is the best card in the mirror, but I soon realize that my top decked pyro trumps. I spend a few turns chump blocking his angler, and find a delver of my own to attack in the air, while the pyro holds off the angler. I win this one.
Game 2: Almost the same thing happened. He drew his anglers, and I drew my pyros. I don't really remember much else, except he boarded in therapys and left in forces, while i boarded all of my forces out and didn't bring in therapys. My board planned definitely seemed for the better as I had way more 141 spot removal to his 241 counterspells.
Round 3 against burn
Game 1: Opponent keeps a 1 land double guide hand. he also had a searing blaze. I lead on turn 1 DRS, and I'm trying to find a countespell before he hits his 2nd land to blaze my DRS. I end up killing both guides, but he still draws no land. I also daze a swiftspear off of his 1 land draw. I am sort of skeptical to use my daze in fear of the top deck land and blazing my DRS but he was so far behind it didn't matter. Plus the DRS already gained me a bunch of life from killing off his 1 drops.
Game 2: One of the worst games of magic I have ever played. But he literally drew 5 lands in a row while I was at 3 so I stole that one. All I remember is i boarded in EE on the draw which was terrible. I also remember forgetting to pierce a price for 4. Either way, I don't like talking about this game. I misplayed and should have lost, but he drew terribly. He had 5 lands out, and he drew a spike to try and kill me. My hand was daze, pierce, fluster, so I 341 myself to stay alive and i close out the game. I swore he was just saving up burn spells to follow up and kill me after the spike got countered. He scooped up his cards and showed me 5 lands in his hand. that was a close one.
Round 4 against enchantress
Game 1: I just got done making a joke with a friend about never playing against enchantress and not even knowing how the deck worked, and of course I match up against it. So game 1 I'm reading every single card, trying to figure out what is going on. I had a double delver hand, so I make quick work after of force the 3 drop white one that prevents damage.
Game 2: he gets three of his draw engines out and just draws me into oblivion. He sticks a rest in peace, and in my head I was happy because I thought he brought in RIP against my deck just to counter angler and shaman. He was at 5 and I had flipped delver and a bolt in my hand, so i thought the game was mine! he flashes me a helm and I felt like a dumbass and scooped.
Game 3: I'm still not too sure how to play against his deck, but my opener was another double delver hand, so i figured not many decks can beat that. My first delver doesn't flip because it was my third delver on top, so i just chuckle. Anyways 3 delvers later and a bolt to the face and I win this one. I did have to EE on 3 to blow up the 3 drop white one, but after he told me i should have set it to 2 to blow up all his card drawers, so he would just have to sac it eventually. I agreed with him, but told him i didn't really know how to play against him, and just was lucky to draw 3 delvers.
Round 5 against goblins
Game 1: I pair up against a buddy, so I thought he was on shardless because that is what he was on last weekend. He goes turn 1 port into vial, and I force it. I think to myself, NOT DEATH AND TAXES, as i hate that matchup. He plays a turn 2 vial and another port and i just cry. anyways he doesn't drop anything into play and misses 3rd land for a few turns and I'm super confused. Turn 5 he hesitantly drops a mountain and casts a drop drop, which i just kill with a bolt. He was so behind he was wondering if he should just scoop before he played the mountain to signify what deck he was playing.
Game 2: He is hesitant with his keep and leads cavern into vial. I play a 1 drop and pass. he plays another vial, but no second land drop. I top deck my EE, set it to 1 and wasteland his only land, and he just scoops em up. Waste is a pretty good card lol.
Draw round 6
Quick shoutout to fire and dice, the store who ran this event, but you can watch all of my finals matches on camera at their twitch page. I wont go into as much detail on my finals matches because you can just watch them yourself.
http://www.twitch.tv/fadgames/v/52651285
Quarters against dredge
Game 1: I get paired up against a buddy of mine on dredge. we were joking around because i said i would much rather play against him than the one DnT player in the top 8. I still don't know if I hold true to that statement. I have a turn 1 DRS so I can't really mulligan that. He destroys me game 1. All dredge cylinders firing. Double bridge and double ichorids, I can't do anything and I scoop.
Games 2 and 3 were not me winning, but simply his deck blowing up on himself. He mullled to 5 both games and just had terrible hands, you can go watch them if you want, but there wasn't really much to see. I felt very bad for my friend, but I didn't mind the luck myself. He is the one playing dredge and killing people on turn 2 lol.
Semis against Junk loam
Game 1: I probe him and see hymn, maze of ith, 2 wastes, and a goyf. I had this weird play where I dazed back my only land and then on the following turn i didn't play a land. I did this beacuse i knew he had two wastes and I needed to just wait until i drew a cantrip to find more lands or draw a fetch. I couldn't play my own wasteland beacuse he was on two basics and would just waste my waste, and i needed my waste for his maze of ith that I saw in his hand. I end up dropping an angler, but he loamed back his maze. I draw my TNN and that just wins the match.
Game 2: He kills my first few guys, and I never get anything going. I was dying to a huge goyf, and then I have to force a knight to try and keep myself alive. I top deck my angler and my only hope is to drop it to keep his goyf back. I only had 5 cards to delve, so I had to waste my surgical that i had in my
hand just to delve the angler. When i looked at his hand, he had a lily, and I had no way of stopping it so I just scooped.
Game 3: This turned out to be just a classic mana denial, delver deck on the play match. I was always ahead on board, and he had to use his main phase to decay or plow my threats. I forced a plow on turn 2 that was targetting my delver. I normally don't waste a force on this, but he mulled to 6, and i had a follow up pyro. I figured if my delver sticks and i play a pyro, his mull to 6 is going to be hard to beat 1 drop into 2 drop on my side of the board. It was good that i forced the plow, because he had eraa decay for my pyro the next turn. My delver does a lot of damamge, getting him under 10. I drop an angler, but he tries to answer my delver + angler with a lily, which I auto daze. He is at 5, my delver gets killed, and he plays a bob as a chump blocker, but a timely brainstorm into daze, counters the bob and he scoops.
Finals against shardless
Game 1: I get no threats to stick and start to die to an agent. I'm around 7 life and he follows it up with a goyf. I have a pyro out and start to get some blockers going, but it wasn't enough. and i lose to a double DRS drain while I'm at 4.
Game 2: Wasteland wasteland wasteland. Did I say wasteland? I have turn 1 delver off a volc, into turn 2 pyro off a wasteland. He endstep brainstorms, which I daze. Then he drops a library on his turn 2, which i let resolve. I play a 2nd wasteland and blow up all our lands. So i have a delver beating down, and he is desperatly trying to find lands with his library. He draws a bayou, but i top deck my third waste. the rest of the game he couldnt get anything going and i win a single delver doing 17 points of damage and a bolt to the face with force back up.
Game 3: I have this weird DRS and double pyro opening with not very much disruption. He kills my DRS and first pyro, but my second one sticks. I get some tokens going. He is struggling to find lands, and i recognize that. He back to back brainstormed twice, and had a visions go off and couldn't find more lands. He finally gets his third land, to desperatly cast a deluge on one to kill my pyro and 6 tokens, but I have a daze. I end step bolt him, and have lethal on my next attack step. IT would have been a way different game if he had drawn lands but I'll take it. Thats what delver decks do, punishes people for any small mistep in their gameplan.
Thanks all for reading all of this, give my finals matches a watch on the twitch! This was my first legacy top8 and i went all the way with this deck, I was super excited!
Great write up!
What are you guys' general Mulligan/SB plans against Eldrazi?
They seem to be just as fast, but with better creatures :|
Great job and congrats. The white three drop enchantment is solitary confinement ;)
I've only played two rounds of this matchup. Once I was on the Grixis side, the other I was on the Eldrazi side. It's not a large sample size, but here's my observations as to what I think Grixis should be doing:
I think you need a Wasteland hand (with counterspells to stop Trinisphere so you can use your Wastelands). If they don't have a Cavern, you'll have a chance to counter their creatures, but basically you need to stick a Delver, flip it quick, and ride it. Your other threats are less useful, although Pyromancer definitely retains some value. Stifle is essentially dead, so if you're playing that build, you're gonna have a bad day.
I think you need Therapies after sideboarding since you can't count on your counterspells. They have a number of artifact lock pieces and they're almost all bad for you, so you'll want artifact removal - although of course artifact removal doesn't do anything about the hands they get where they jam 4/4 after 4/4.
The way this matchup felt when I was playing it, I decided I didn't want to play Grixis in a world featuring Eldrazi (or, as I call it, My Tentacle Romance). The deck is obviously still viable, but in my constricted metagame, I didn't want to have to mark down an auto-loss every Friday. In addition, I decided I wanted to buy in before the Pro Tour, when it seemed clear the Eldrazi were primed to explode, and that decision worked out.
If the Eldrazi feature in your metagame, you should be off the Stifle plan for now. I liked Murderous Cut before there was a top-tier Trinisphere/Thorn of Amethyst deck that played a bunch of big creatures; it looks even better now. I also wouldn't be opposed to main deck Therapies.
One thing I noticed from Noah's list that won the Open: he clearly prepared for the Eldrazi. He put 2 Therapy in the main, and his sideboard contains 2 Baleful Strix - a card that hasn't seen much play in this deck at all, but seems rather good against Eldrazi. That may be a direction we need to travel to make the matchup palatable.
Roses are colorless.
Violets are colorless.
Everything is nothing.
Depending on the build, stifle is far from dead.
Mimic trigger
TKS trigger
Wasteland
Mishra's factory
Endbringer
Jitte
Ratchet bomb
Faerie macabre(although I don't know why this would get brought in.)
I play both grixis and eldrazi(well stompy in general, but at the moment eldrazi is the best stompy)
Edit: this doesn't mean I think it's right to plya stifle in an eldrazi infested meta, just that it's not as dead as you might think.
I'm a big advocate for Stifle. I know it's never truly dead. It's just very bad against that deck. Like, all the things you listed are ways of getting some value out of it, but they're all bad, with the exception of Ratchet Bomb. Stifle isn't doing what you want it to be doing in the matchup, which is disrupting their mana, strong tempo swings, or stripping all the value off their cards (like Stifling a Stoneforge trigger or the equip/bounce activation or ETB trigger on a Batterskull). Stifling a TKS trigger is nice, but you still have a 4/4 to deal with, which is a problem for this deck.
Roses are colorless.
Violets are colorless.
Everything is nothing.
Thanks for the tournament report! I'd be interested in your sideboard plans against the various decks (even if you can't remember every single card), it's just that sideboarding gets way too few attention imo and there're wildly different opinions on how you should sideboard against different decks.
To the Eldrazi deck:
Playing 4 Stifles in the maindeck myself I agree that you just have to try to get value out of them whenever possible in this matchup, the best ones beyond doubt are TKS and Wasteland.
I also board all of them (+2 of my 3 Probes) out in this match and put in 3 Decays, 1 Krosan Grip, 1 Fire Covenant and 1 Tropical.
I think my matchup at least post-board is actually favored, since I play a bit of a "weird" sideboard though that has a lot of cards against decks Stifle is bad against I agree that the general Stifle Delver build might be suboptimal.
I love every counterspell on the play as well as on the draw. Sure they can be dead sometimes, but Cavern means that your opponent can't play a big Eldrazi until turn 3 (because they can't go for 4 mana on turn 2 with cavern) so sometimes you can just outtempo them with quick threats. Unlike MUD where a Wurmcoil Engine just ends the game in Eldrazi you can keep up with every single card they have (they shouldn't bring in All is Dust or Endbringer).
Wasteland is important, but not necessary and a well-timed Force of Will can give you enough tempo-advantage to get to a point where they simply can't keep up with your tempo advantage.
Personally I think that Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy are a bad idea in this matchup. In my experience this deck is VERY tempo oriented and their threats are pretty interchangeable so blind-naming (at least for me) is difficult. Also when you spend your turn stripping something out of their hand it just can happen that they play something the next turn and attack you for 8-10 damage, putting you massively behind (you often don't know how fast they can put out their hand because most also play Moxes or Spirit Guides for fast mana).
I played in a 20 Person Legacy FNM Last Night with Grixis Delver. Excuse my lack of details in the matches. I'm not great at recollection.
The list I played this week.
Lands (18):
4x Wasteland
4x Flooded Strand
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Volcanic Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
1x Polluted Delta
Creatures (14):
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Young Pyromancer
2x Gurmag Angler
1x True-Name Nemesis
Spells (28):
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Forked Bolt
1x Spell Pierce
1x Dismember
Sideboard (15):
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Baleful Strix
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Pyroblast
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Ancestral Visions
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Pithing Needle
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Winter's Orb
1x Electrickery
1x Darkblast
1x Flusterstorm
Round 1 v Elves
Game 1: I keep a slow hand with 3 Fetches, Ponder, Deathrite and proceed to flood out. Eventually losing to a Craterhoof beating me down.
Game 2: I had a solid hand with Forked Bolts, Deathrite, and Delver and close out the game with Deathrite burning him down.
Game 3: I play a Grafdigger's Cage on Turn 2 and he has no answer to it and I win shortly after.
Round 2 v Death and Taxes
Game 1: I keep a 1 Land, Ponder, Delver hand on the draw. He wastelands my Volcanic and STP the Delver and I don't draw another land.
Game 2: I grind out a win with a Needle on his Vial.
Game 3: My opening was Deathrite, Deathrite, Wasteland, Underground Sea, Darkblast, Ponder, Forked Bolt. Darkblast does a ton of damage and dredges away an Ancient Grudge that got flashed back later to take down a hardcast Batterskull
Round 3 v Elves
Game 1: We get into a board stall late in the game with him having a Craterhoof and a small team of elves vs a Gurmag Angler, and 2 Deathrite Shamans. I'm sitting at 1 life and manage to shave off death briefly. Any Lightning Bolt effect would have won me the game, but I was unable to find one and lose.
Game 2: I have a fast clock with Delver, Deathrite and Forked Bolt and win fairly quickly.
Game 3: He plays Forest, Deathrite pass. I play Underground Sea, Deathrite and pass back. He combos off with multiple Heritage Druid, Nettle Sentinals and multiple Glimpses and beats me on his turn 2.
Round 4 v Death and Taxes
Game 1: I lose Game 1 to a Vryn Wingmare with a Jitte after bricking in a topdeck war.
Game 2: Double Delver draw beats him before he can build a comeback.
Game 3: He mulligans, stumbles on land and I cast a TNN with 2 Deathrite Shamans and win pretty quickly.
Round 5 v Miracles
Game 1: I flood out and give him time to assemble Counterbalance with a STP to take care of my Angler.
Game 2: I win with a Turn 1 Delver, Turn 2 Pyromancer before he does anything
Game 3: Turn 1 Deathrite followed by 2 Delvers and a Winter Orb and he doesn't blind draw a Terminus.
Thoughts on the deck
I cut the 2 Cabal Therapy from the main this week for the Spell Pierce/Dismember. I don't like Spell Pierce at all. The deck just rarely has the luxury of leaving mana open. I'm still searching for a good fit for these last 2 slots. I may just go up to 4 Forked Bolts since my meta is so creature dense, or may try 2 Stifle.
Ancestral Vision felt really bad. If you don't suspend it on Turn 1 it's just so slow. It'll likely get cut next week for Dread of Night or Engineered Explosives. Winter Orb felt super good against Miracles.
I agree that Spell Pierce seems rather bad in a meta with tons of creature decks. Did you bring in the Cabal Therapies against Elves? Has it ever come up that you couldn't flashback your Therapy due to your cage?
I like 2x Forked Bolt main vs. a creature heavy meta, it's just unbelievably efficient.
I think Engineered Explosives could be a thing, look ahead though since starting with Shadow over Innistrad the cmc of a flipped Delver will be 1, not 0, so a EE for 1 might kill more than you're used to. I like it vs. Counterbalance though if you're not playing green.
Can you tell us how you sideboarded against the different matches? Personally that would interest me the most and I know that there's some demand for it here.
Against Elves
In: Darkblast, Electrickery, Grim Lavamancer, Grafdigger's Cage, Pithing Needle, 2 Cabal Therapy
Maybe: Ancestral Visions
Out on the play: 2 Force of Will, 2 Daze, 1 Spell Pierce, 1 Ponder, 1 Gitaxian Probe
Out on the draw: 4 Daze, 1 Spell Pierce, 1 Force of Will, 1 Ponder
Against Death and Taxes
In: Darkblast, Elecktrickery, Grim Lavamancer, Pithing Needle, Ancient Grudge
Maybe: Ancestral Vision, Baleful Strix, Cabal Therapy
Out on the play: 2 Force of Will, 2 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Ponder
Out on the draw: 4 Daze, 2 Force of Will
Against Miracles
In: Pithing Needle, Winter Orb, Flusterstorm, Pyroblast, Surgical Extraction, 2 Cabal Therapy
Maybe: Ancestral Vision
Out on the play: 2 Forked Bolt, 2 Lightning Bolt, 1 Dismember, 1 Ponder, 1 Gitaxian Probe
Out on the draw: 2 Daze, 2 Forked Bolt, 2 Lightning Bolt, 1 Dismember
Those were essentially the adjustments I made.
Quick landbase question—
Most lists I'm seeing from Top 8s and Leagues are running 8 fetchlands, usually 4 of two different kinds. Would it not be better to play two of every blue fetch to protect from Pithing Needle shenanigans and to better mask what we're running? Or is it to give the opponent the impression that we may be running Miracles/Storm/some other such if all they have seen so far is a land?
It's a small thing, you can do it if you like.
DRS is a better target for opposing needles.
I think it's strictly better to play 2 of each blue fetch. It is super fringe, but gives you a bit of protection against Needle/Surgical Extraction in the instance that it ever becomes a relevant line of play. You do have to be a bit more careful on how you sequence playing your fetches if any of them are seen from a Probe. (If your opponent probes you and sees a Flooded Strand and Polluted Delta and you draw and play a Misty Rainforest you just gave away free information that probably wouldn't have occurred if you just played 4 Polluted Delta and 4 Flooded Strands.)
I thought about this the other day and I disagree. I'm happy for everyone who brings in Pithing Needle against my deck since it's really only good in this t1-gitaxian probe-needle hand and let's be honest: Which decks play Gitaxian Probe? Storm, Grixis and Show&Tell, maybe RUG. The scariest one is RUG, but I've beaten a friend with his RUG deck who sided in Pithing Needle against me out of frustration because of DRS more than I've lost.
On the other side limiting our set of fetchlands might be a way to go against decks where we side in Pithing Needle anyways, Miracles and Show&Tell come to mind. Miracles plays 4x Flooded Strand and Show&Tell plays 4x Scalding Tarn.
It would be smart to limit our fetchlands to the other 2 options: Misty Rainforest and Delta. The reason why I personally have not done this change yet is that Misty Rainforest will be reprinted at some point and I'm really comfortable with naming Top against Miracles in the meanwhile...
@magical-yata: I have the feeling that you have too many "fair" cards and struggle to find room for all of them after sideboarding, rendering some of them almost useless. You could try more high-impact specific answers instead, e.g. 1-2 Sulfur Elementals vs. Death&Taxes and Miracles, Abrupt Decay vs. Counterbalance, Fire Covenant against Shardless, Jund and Elves.
Also cutting Ponder post-board seems really loose given that you want as many ways to find your silver-bullets as possible.
I'm testing Noah Walker's list here, BUG and Burn are always beating me. Is there any advice to play against them?
BUG Delver or Shardless BUG?
Question for you all:
VS Miracles:
They have no top, and no counterbalance, you have no hand knowledge.
You have 2 lands and 8 cards to delve away for a Gurmag with no threats on board and none in hand. No countermagic in hand left. You DO have a needle in hand.
Do you: Go cheap and delve less in case you draw a DRS? Or do you max out on delve and play needle naming Jace blind?
I think the play is to name Jace blind here, but I took a risk and didn't. Gurmag getting bounced felt real bad. What are you guys' thoughts. I think without countermagic I have to name Jace blind in this situation and if they have a random Terminus off the top, I just feel bad.
Shardless BUG and Burn. I think it's very hard to beat them. I would appreciate some help.
I think shardless is favored, especially of you are on stifle. You can't grind them out, you need to play a tempo game and kill their lands. You need to save your free counter spells for deluge and pulse. Their creatures shouldn't be too hard to deal with, or you just ignore them.
Shardless can be tough. I think you just have to try and go wide and try to tempo them out with Delver plays. Pyromancer can put in work as can your Wastelands. If they land a Tarmogoyf you really have no way of killing it and they will be able to eventually grind you out with Shardless + Visions. Watch out for Toxic Deluge though.
Attacking their mana and being aggressive with Forces/Dazes I think is the way to go. Post board you can bring in Dismember and Baleful Strix if you just want ways to kill Goyf.
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