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Thread: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

  1. #41
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Manipulato View Post
    How do you guys board against Miracles with the standard Noah Cohen list? Do you bring in Therapys? If yes, for Daze? Needle, Null Rod, Pyroblasts are obvious...

    Maybe a boarding plan for the classic Jace/Entreat list & one for the Mentor Miracles list would be helpful.

    Thx
    If you're taking about this list, http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=90582 , here's what i would do against regular miracles:
    -4 Daze
    -1 Forked Bolt
    -2 Lightning Bolt
    -1 Spell Pierce
    +3 Pyroblast
    +3 Therapy
    +1 Needle
    +1 Clique
    I really don't like daze in this matchup because they just play around it and it becomes pretty useless after turn 2/3. I like to keep a few bolts in because miracles tend to bring in mentor post-board, and worst-case scenario, they can just kill a random clique or snapcaster. Spell pierce is fine but probably worse than the cards you're bringing in. As for mentor miracles, I would do more or less the same thing. Maybe you would bring in the singleton staticaster.

  2. #42

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by ironclad8690 View Post
    Yeah, the numbers for this deck are counting towards "Grixis Pyromancer" because of Tcdecks classifications, which have not differentiated between Grixis Control and Grixis Delver. Unfortunate, but what can you do :/
    I am writing to tc decks about this now. They were doing the same thing with "Team America" a few years ago, lumping BUG Control decks together with the aggressive BUG Delver decks, but after letting them know, they fixed it.

  3. #43
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kl'rt View Post
    I am writing to tc decks about this now. They were doing the same thing with "Team America" a few years ago, lumping BUG Control decks together with the aggressive BUG Delver decks, but after letting them know, they fixed it.
    Thank you! Hopefully that will clear up some of the confusion surrounding these decks.

  4. #44
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    This deck has been moved to the DTB because it turns out that that the vast majority of TCDecks' "Grixis Pyromancer" category are Tempo decks now.

    Thanks to AfroSmile for pointing out my mistake.
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  5. #45
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil Credo View Post
    This deck has been moved to the DTB because it turns out that that the vast majority of TCDecks' "Grixis Pyromancer" category are Tempo decks now.

    Thanks to AfroSmile for pointing out my mistake.
    The burg Delver deck is by the way no Dtb, it was a failure because you guys thought that this was the description for the popular Grixis Delver deck with the little g splash.
    burg Delver belongs to the Established area. Then everything is right as before
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  6. #46
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil Credo View Post
    This deck has been moved to the DTB because it turns out that that the vast majority of TCDecks' "Grixis Pyromancer" category are Tempo decks now.

    Thanks to AfroSmile for pointing out my mistake.
    A big "thank you" Credo!

  7. #47
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil Credo View Post
    This deck has been moved to the DTB because it turns out that that the vast majority of TCDecks' "Grixis Pyromancer" category are Tempo decks now.

    Thanks to AfroSmile for pointing out my mistake.
    A big thank to you for the work! The work you're doing is huge! If we can help, we'll do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manipulato View Post
    The burg Delver deck is by the way no Dtb, it was a failure because you guys thought that this was the description for the popular Grixis Delver deck with the little g splash.
    burg Delver belongs to the Established area. Then everything is right as before
    I was thinking the same until I go to the TCG Deck and check decks that are describe in 4 color delver. Actually there is may be 2-3 mistakes but otherwise it is correct. So I think the deck belongs to the DTB area in the moment.
    bUrg Delver is quite strong at the moment. I think we have to stop to discuss the deck position actually because everything is alright now. We can continue the deck discussion.
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  8. #48
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    The lone Delver player in the top 16 takes down the whole tournament

    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=91020

    Creatures (14)

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Gurmag Angler
    4 Young Pyromancer

    Spells (28)

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    2 Dig Through Time
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Forked Bolt
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Ponder

    Lands (18)

    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Dismember
    3 Pyroblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Vendilion Clique
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Forked Bolt

    Mostly stock but he played TNN/Forked Bolt in the sideboard instead of Ancient Grudge or Dread of Night.

  9. #49

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    It's been suggested in four-color Delver (e.g. Charlie Holland's top 8 list from Legacy Champs this year), but I wonder if Jace, Vryn's Prodigy could be a reasonable option here. I'm thinking just taking the stock maindeck posted in the previous post and do +2 Jace, -1 Probe, -1 Pyromancer in the maindeck. Jace synergizes with Daze and gives us another way to fuel our four Delve cards (or pitch them if we draw too many). The quasi-Snapcaster effect is pretty good game one, but totally insane in SB games when we bring in high impact one-ofs.

  10. #50

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    iostream, I've been thinking a lot about Jace, and although I typically play RUG I've been testing him a reasonable amount in Grixis and have come to this list. I've been incredibly impressed with him so far; an unchecked Jace in most fair matchups has usually led to me running away with the game, and is another incredibly high-impact threat in addition to the rest of our threat base.

    Creatures: (15)
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Young Pyromancer
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
    1 Gurmag Angler

    Non-Creature Spells: (27)
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    2 Dig Through Time
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Cabal Therapy
    1 Forked Bolt

    Lands: (18)
    4 Wasteland
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta

    Sideboard: (15)
    3 Cabal Therapy
    1 Null Rod
    1 Vendilion Clique
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Electrickery
    1 Dismember
    1 Kolaghan's Command

    Sideboard is pretty messy and probably has a few too many cutesy cards (K.Command should probably just be a Grudge), but the main I feel really fits Jace nicely. Having the singleton main deck Cabal Therapy over the typical Spell Pierce seems like a necessary change to ensure that Jace has a lot of proactive sorceries that he can flashback. It feels really unfortunate to have to cut an Angler however, and I could see cutting a Pyromancer to add the second one back in.
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  11. #51
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by goblinsplayer View Post
    If you're taking about this list, http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=90582 , here's what i would do against regular miracles:
    -4 Daze
    -1 Forked Bolt
    -2 Lightning Bolt
    -1 Spell Pierce
    +3 Pyroblast
    +3 Therapy
    +1 Needle
    +1 Clique
    I really don't like daze in this matchup because they just play around it and it becomes pretty useless after turn 2/3. I like to keep a few bolts in because miracles tend to bring in mentor post-board, and worst-case scenario, they can just kill a random clique or snapcaster. Spell pierce is fine but probably worse than the cards you're bringing in. As for mentor miracles, I would do more or less the same thing. Maybe you would bring in the singleton staticaster.
    I feel like you might want to cut a Force instead of the Pierce, there. You're cutting the Dazes and replacing them with black and red cards, which makes your Forces slightly worse. In my experience, cutting that many blue cards has a noticeable (but not crippling) effect on my ability to pitch to Force. Meanwhile Pierce is still reasonable in the matchup, especially if it's protecting early pressure.

    I don't know. Maybe you just want the hard counter.

    You definitely want Staticaster against Mentor Miracles, though. My plan currently is to board as if they're bringing in Mentors if I lost game 1, because if I'm not prepared for the Mentor switch then I'm just going to get run over.

    Is anybody else playing the Ed Demicco-style Stifle list? I've rather enjoyed having Stifles to screw with what my opponent is doing. The downside is you lose Anglers and MD Forked Bolt/Pierce, although I've been tinkering around with cutting the third DTT and a Pyromancer for two Anglers because I see Abrupt Decay going up in popularity.
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  12. #52
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Question for you guys:

    In this article: http://articles.kirwansgamestore.com...ver-in-legacy/

    He says to counter the cantrips when you can. Does that still hold through? Should I not be holding out for the inevitable fight over SnT? Is it because a decent player will just play around Daze when it's time to resolve SnT anyways?

    I understand I shouldn't lose this matchup, and post board it's fairly straightforward but I've been practicing some pre-board games with my buddy because I don't just want to lose g1 all the time.

    Also, I've been wondering... would anyone be as so kind as to give me a quick breakdown on favored/unfavored matchups?

    As I understand it, it's like this:

    Favored against
    Omnitell
    Miracles
    Storm

    Unfavored against
    Lands
    DnT

    I'm not quite sure where other decks like Merfolk/Burn/Infect/Various Stoneblade lists I know I've missed a lot of other established decks, so feel free to add any.
    Last edited by Jaytron; 09-09-2015 at 01:31 PM.

  13. #53

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaytron View Post
    He says to counter the cantrips when you can. Does that still hold through? Should I not be holding out for the inevitable fight over SnT? Is it because a decent player will just play around Daze when it's time to resolve SnT anyways?
    He doesn't say to always counter the cantrips. You only counter them with your soft countermagic when you can, basically for the same reasons you do that versus Storm. First, because Omnitell can develop their mana to the point that the soft counters eventually become bad. Second, because your strategy is to stick an early threat and ride it to victory, so you need to slow them down as much as you can in order to buy your threat enough time to close out. Your soft countermagic plays this role well. But you still need to save your hard counters for Show and Tell.

  14. #54
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by iostream View Post
    He doesn't say to always counter the cantrips. You only counter them with your soft countermagic when you can, basically for the same reasons you do that versus Storm. First, because Omnitell can develop their mana to the point that the soft counters eventually become bad. Second, because your strategy is to stick an early threat and ride it to victory, so you need to slow them down as much as you can in order to buy your threat enough time to close out. Your soft countermagic plays this role well. But you still need to save your hard counters for Show and Tell.
    Right, makes sense. The article did say to use Daze's to fight over cantrips. Using a FoW seems really bad to counter a cantrip. Thanks for the clarification!

  15. #55
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Why do people play Izzet Staticaster and why does it fill that role better than Electrickery? Serious question, thanks for answering.
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    Why do people play Izzet Staticaster and why does it fill that role better than Electrickery? Serious question, thanks for answering.
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    Why do people play Izzet Staticaster and why does it fill that role better than Electrickery? Serious question, thanks for answering.
    Like most sideboard options in Legacy, it's a matter of personal preference and metagame composition. Here's some of the relevant differences between the two:

    Pros:
    - Can't be Spell Pierced or Dispelled
    - Is blue; can be pitched to Force if needed
    - Isn't affected by Thorn effects (particularly relevant against DnT) or 3sphere
    - Better against Chalice... although typically Chalice is not played in matchups where you want Staticaster effect
    - Continually affects board state; lock outs possible, x/2s have difficulty blocking/attacking into Elemental tokens, Apostle's Blessing-style effects are less effective

    Cons:
    - Doesn't flip Delver or trigger Pyromancer
    - Is blue; can be Red Blasted
    - If they have several different x/1s out, it can take a while to clear their board
    - Doesn't immediately contribute to Delve fuel
    - Costs more upfront
    - Can't hit pre-Thresh Mongooses/other shrouded x/1s
    - Weak to Revoker/Needle/Stifle
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  18. #58
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Thanks for your replies. To be honest, I was more interested in the first half of my question. To be more precise, in what matchups is that effect actually wanted? Why is it in the sideboard and where else is it boarded in if it's there anyway?
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  19. #59
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    Thanks for your replies. To be honest, I was more interested in the first half of my question. To be more precise, in what matchups is that effect actually wanted? Why is it in the sideboard and where else is it boarded in if it's there anyway?
    I've played Staticaster extensively in Miracles, and although I haven't played much with Grixis Delver, I think my experiences with Miracles can be extended here. It is great against Death and Taxes (a difficult matchup for Delver decks without hate), good in the mirror to catch up from behind, a hard-lock against Elves, Infect, and other random creature decks, and good against storm by virtue of being blue and a hedge against Swarm / Empty.

    Other options are Electrickery (as you mentioned) and Sulfur Elemental. I think Electrickery is better only if you expect a ton of Delvers that you'd like to kill on turn 1, and Sulfur Elemental is if you think there will be more Miracles and D&T than any of the other decks I listed.
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Hello all,

    I usually play Esper Stoneblade (ironclad reported playing me in a daily a couple of posts back) and this matchup has been giving me some trouble, lately. I'm just looking for some insight as to cards that are good in the match up so I can try to formulate a game plan.

    Thanks guys/gals! Any insight is much appreciated.


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  1. kabal