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Thread: [Deck] Grixis Tempo

  1. #1221
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    The problem with Stifle against Storm is that Stifle doesn't shut down their engine. They can still cast their Past in Flames and just flashback their discard spells before tutoring the Tendrils.

  2. #1222
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    People who claim stifle is good vs storm are the same people who claim Canadian is good vs storm. They've likely not played the matchup from the other side.
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  3. #1223
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan View Post
    Storm meets Stifle. Enough said.

    As for many other combo decks, pressure in the form of Delver, Pyromancer, Angler, etc. backed up by counters is generally just a tough task for combo decks. The thing is, the longer a combo deck takes to win against Delver, especially with a threat in play, the more the Delver player gets to sculpt their hand to fight an inevitable counter war. Delver decks will usually pressure combo decks to go off before they are ready to go off. With Stifle, Delver can still disrupt the early game for a combo deck by attacking their mana and thus makes it harder to develop a hand capable of going off through disruption.

    You seem to be very inexperienced in the match-up. If you expect to beat storm with some Stifle, some Dazes, a few Pierces/Snares and some FoWs you're gonna face harsh days when you'll getpaired against the deck.
    As some guys above my post correctly said, that is not nearly enough to beat Storm, or even Show&Tell decks. Not to even mention Elves.

    On MTGO, where the field is FULL of Storm and other combo decks, if you don't have an account you can see it by the numbers they put up in 5-0 finishes, I'm pretty sure that a list of Canadian Grixis will have a rough time going undefeated online. Now that combo decks are back in full force, in my opinion, running that kind of a list is a clear mistake. I can be wrong though..
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  4. #1224
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    I have had very positive experiences against combo in general. I don't think Stifle is Storm hate at all, however it is more disruption that they must answer.

    Elves is quite different, but I think that your board control elements in addition to a quick Delver can really sway a game in your favour. I don't think that Elves is a great matchup but I would like to hear how bad you guys think it is.

    My favourable experiences mau sway my perception of the matchup, but you will not change my opinion that Grixis Delver has a solid combo matchup.

    I think that if the metagame continues to go the way of very unfair, Therapy Grixis Delver is probably the way to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkin View Post
    I tap all 5 of my lands on my turn. He's like....OMG not Shriekmaw. I land Batterskull. He's like. Ok sure. LOL, not very often someone is more happy to see Batterskull then a Shriekmaw.
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  5. #1225
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Hi everyone. I'm here to pick your brains...

    I play Goblins. For those who have actually played this increasingly rare match-up, what do you fear from our deck? Obviously the nut draws are nut draws, but I'm not looking to beat the nut draws, and I'm not looking to see mine more often. I want to know what I can do as a consistent game plan that harms yours.

    Is it worth bothering with Pithing Needle against the Shaman? Do you care about RIP? What goblins do you value other than the obvious T1 Lackey? (I board them out on the draw anyway).

    The reason I ask is that I can think of a ton of different ways to board without changing a single card in my deck, but I can't seem to pin down what boarding strategy harms you the most? The goblins thread seems pretty sure that Carpet of Flowers has relevant text against you, but my testing is lackluster in that process.

    If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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  6. #1226
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan View Post
    I have had very positive experiences against combo in general. I don't think Stifle is Storm hate at all, however it is more disruption that they must answer.
    Just to make sure we're on the same page, you realize you can stifle the storm trigger right? As in, if you have a stifle in hand and they don't have a duress or a second therapy, you just win. Therapy is ok against them, but they can just PiF through it sometimes. I realize it's better to Flusterstorm the Wish/Tutor instead of the Storm-spell, but Stifle does a pretty good impression. Stifle is almost a Mindbreak trap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  7. #1227
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard View Post
    Hi everyone. I'm here to pick your brains...
    I don't main Grixis, but it's my favorite Delver colors by a bit.

    RiP can be good if you see Anglers as turning off DRS and Angler is pretty mean. Carpet seems meh, since it's CDA. I could be wrong, but I think keeping Lackey and then having removal for DRS seems better than replacing lackey with an off-color mana card. If you're going to go that route, Choke is a 1-card win if they don't have Decays, and sometimes even if they do. If you guys still run Thalias in the board, that seems quite good.

    If you use any Arc Trail that's pretty ok. REBs are always good. The more guys in your deck that are a tiny body with no text that can be replaced with relevant cards, the better. Going wide v Grixis has a good chance to fail. Screwing their plan with Thalias, Rebs, and a 1-2 of RiP seems fine. And again Choke is a fine way to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  8. #1228
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    Just to make sure we're on the same page, you realize you can stifle the storm trigger right? As in, if you have a stifle in hand and they don't have a duress or a second therapy, you just win. Therapy is ok against them, but they can just PiF through it sometimes. I realize it's better to Flusterstorm the Wish/Tutor instead of the Storm-spell, but Stifle does a pretty good impression. Stifle is almost a Mindbreak trap.
    Yes, I do see way the Stifle is almost Mindbreak Trap. It still is worse than Trap against storm, but is more versatile.

    I honestly think Therapy is just great against combo matchup in general, especially if you have a read on their hand. You get to take the most important cards with targeted discard, which is very annoying for combo.

    You commented on countering the tutor/wish. You are right about just going after the tutor if they don't go all in. A good rule of thumb is just to stop the tutor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkin View Post
    I tap all 5 of my lands on my turn. He's like....OMG not Shriekmaw. I land Batterskull. He's like. Ok sure. LOL, not very often someone is more happy to see Batterskull then a Shriekmaw.
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  9. #1229
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard View Post
    I play Goblins. For those who have actually played this increasingly rare match-up, what do you fear from our deck? Obviously the nut draws are nut draws, but I'm not looking to beat the nut draws, and I'm not looking to see mine more often. I want to know what I can do as a consistent game plan that harms yours.
    From my experience, lots of removal is the toughest to overcome: Pyrokinesis, Tarfire, Stingscourger, Gempalm Incinerator. As long as you clear the board, you have the superior midgame. Once Goblins gets to reload with a Ringleader, the door closes quickly.

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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    From my experience, lots of removal is the toughest to overcome: Pyrokinesis, Tarfire, Stingscourger, Gempalm Incinerator. As long as you clear the board, you have the superior midgame. Once Goblins gets to reload with a Ringleader, the door closes quickly.
    So basically, dodge the Gurmags.

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  11. #1231
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    What is the consensus on the preferred sweeper? I guess if it is unknown meta would be Electrickery? How about Fire Covenant, anyone have any experience using it?
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  12. #1232
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    I think you want a sweeper that deals *at least* 2 damage, that way you can clear the board of some of the most difficult creatures, e.g. DRS, SFMystic, Mirran Crusader, etc.

    So that gives you a plethora of 2 cmc spells to choose from, e.g. Pyroclasm, Rough//Tumble, etc.

    But then you may also want to consider 3 CMC spells that allow you to take out bigger threats. Toxic Deluge is probably the best all-around wrath, however stuff like Sudden Demise allows you to leave your own creatures untouched. Fire Covenant has the big advantage of Instant-speed, but at the cost of a scaling-cost of a life.

    So there's not really a single best answer, as it really depends on the metagame expectations.

  13. #1233

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Toxic deluge is absolutely atrocious in this deck, how can anyone seriously consider it is beyond me.
    Sudden demise is a bit better since it doesn't necessarily kill most of our own creatures, but it's still clunky and will often backfire since we run blue, black and green creatures. Covenant and electrikery are both better, flexible options for the sweeper slots: electrikery will sweep tokens, strixes, elves, dnt creatures, infect creatures, while also doubling as an extra piece of 1 mana removal against an early mom, delver, confidant, etc.
    Covenant is basically a one sided wrath that requires you to pay life up front: obviously pretty bad when your life total is already low and getting it countered sucks, but if you are in the position to fire it off profitably and it resolves, it will win you the game most of the times.

  14. #1234
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by kabal View Post
    What is the consensus on the preferred sweeper? I guess if it is unknown meta would be Electrickery? How about Fire Covenant, anyone have any experience using it?
    I like Izzet Staticaster and Grim Lavamancer as slow sweepers, and they are very effective at killing what you want them to kill. As for real sweepers, I would play Fire Covenant or Sudden Demise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkin View Post
    I tap all 5 of my lands on my turn. He's like....OMG not Shriekmaw. I land Batterskull. He's like. Ok sure. LOL, not very often someone is more happy to see Batterskull then a Shriekmaw.
    ______________________________________
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  15. #1235

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    So, within the last few weeks, I bought into grixis delver on modo, and I'll say, for being a total legacy noob, it feels pretty good to be able to practice everyday. I have learned a lot and do feel more comfortable playing this deck, even if I might have expressed the contrary somewhat recently.
    Not to mention, modo has helped me turn speculation about cards into actual testing. I can honestly say, stifle feels just fine in this deck. I've paid attention to what LewisCBR has said about the version of the deck, and his tips help.

  16. #1236

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Is anyone playing this deck w/o deathrite? I want to keep this as a grixis deck, not a grixis plus green

  17. #1237
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by 13b View Post
    Is anyone playing this deck w/o deathrite? I want to keep this as a grixis deck, not a grixis plus green
    Out of curiosity, what would your creature package look like? Right now the deck has 8 one drops that take over the game if they are allowed to live, then a handful of bombier creatures in the 2-3 CMC range. Given the low curve of the deck, I'm not sure which one drop would take the place of DRS and you need one pretty badly.

    Also the deck really doesn't splash green. You have a single Tropical Island for activating DRS' other ability and maybe flashing back Ancient Grudge. All of the sideboard options are in red or black. I have considered dropping that single Tropical for another Sea just to make my mana better, as it is easy to get Wasted off of black which I do not like. I also have yet to use the lifegain ability but that doesn't mean it isn't potentially useful.

  18. #1238

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by apistat_commander View Post
    Out of curiosity, what would your creature package look like? Right now the deck has 8 one drops that take over the game if they are allowed to live, then a handful of bombier creatures in the 2-3 CMC range. Given the low curve of the deck, I'm not sure which one drop would take the place of DRS and you need one pretty badly.

    Also the deck really doesn't splash green. You have a single Tropical Island for activating DRS' other ability and maybe flashing back Ancient Grudge. All of the sideboard options are in red or black. I have considered dropping that single Tropical for another Sea just to make my mana better, as it is easy to get Wasted off of black which I do not like. I also have yet to use the lifegain ability but that doesn't mean it isn't potentially useful.
    @apistat I have played without the Trop, using an extra Sea, and it's quite good (1 Trop in the board). Getting wasted off a color can be a death sentence in Delver, and freeing yourself of wanting green lets you double up on whichever color is more needed for the particular game you're playing.

    While the green ability can be nice for hating creatures in the yard (Ichorid, Griselbrand), I almost always want to go for a fast-as-possible win in game 1, and the green ability just slows me down.

    @ 13b If you're against green for some reason (shame!), don't consider DRS a green creature. DRS is an absurdly good 1 drop black creature, even when you ignore his green ability.

  19. #1239

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by T-101 View Post
    @apistat I have played without the Trop, using an extra Sea, and it's quite good (1 Trop in the board). Getting wasted off a color can be a death sentence in Delver, and freeing yourself of wanting green lets you double up on whichever color is more needed for the particular game you're playing.

    While the green ability can be nice for hating creatures in the yard (Ichorid, Griselbrand), I almost always want to go for a fast-as-possible win in game 1, and the green ability just slows me down.

    @ 13b If you're against green for some reason (shame!), don't consider DRS a green creature. DRS is an absurdly good 1 drop black creature, even when you ignore his green ability.
    It has nothing to do with not liking green infact it is probably my favorite color, it's just I originally started playing magic during Alara (i know relatively speaking im a newbie to the world) so the shards and their respective colors sit close to home for me. I've always wanted to have a legacy deck for each shard, and as of now I have either a list or completed deck for Naya (RGW) Jund (GBR) and Esper (UWB). I am close to finishing a list for Bant (WUG) and it seems grixis (BRU) is the odd man out sans a few grixis control decks ive seen float around

  20. #1240
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by 13b View Post
    It has nothing to do with not liking green infact it is probably my favorite color, it's just I originally started playing magic during Alara (i know relatively speaking im a newbie to the world) so the shards and their respective colors sit close to home for me. I've always wanted to have a legacy deck for each shard, and as of now I have either a list or completed deck for Naya (RGW) Jund (GBR) and Esper (UWB). I am close to finishing a list for Bant (WUG) and it seems grixis (BRU) is the odd man out sans a few grixis control decks ive seen float around
    There was a gentleman at my LGS that played the deck with monastery swiftwspear instead of deathrite shaman and it wasn't half bad.

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