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Thread: [Deck] Grixis Tempo

  1. #1601

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Luca Grease View Post
    1) Cutting some number of Dazes on the draw in certain matchups is definitely a valid strategy, but you should ALWAYS run the full playset when on the play. EDIT: I still keep mine on the draw in most match-ups, and I would argue that players who always cut all 4 on the draw don't really understand how tempo decks work
    2) Counterspells or just riding our board to victory. Deployed Shamans can potentially still produce a limited amount of mana, and you can still cast Force of Will and red spells through Blood Moon. This deck does have few ways to deal with enchantments but with counterbalance mostly gone the only real threat is Blood Moon, and thankfully dedicated Blood Moon decks tend to be inconsistent piles of junk
    3) 3 seas 2 volcs has been the standard for a while now. See previous post where I encourage discussion on the merits of 3 and 3
    Thanks for replying Luca.

    Could you give me more insight regarding daze post SB, it seems like it's the base of playing tempo.

    Do you keep all of them on the draw against tempo or storm? Do you take them all out against control (a lot of people told me to do that, on the draw and on the play)?

  2. #1602

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by pipet76 View Post
    Hi, I'm new to this deck since I mainly play control. So I have a few questions that maybe you can help me figure it out:

    1- How do you manage your Dazes postboard. I've heard that on the draw you have to take them all out. Is that so for all matches? Would you keep it against control on the play?
    2- What answers do we have to B Moon? It seems like we're unprotected from enchanments.
    3- Landwise, is the 2 Seas 3 Volcanic 1 Trop the more stable built. Aren't we better off with 3 seas (meaning more black sources)

    Thanks a lot
    I'm looking foward to playing this deck
    1. Follow this priority algorythm, topbottom:
    1. You will never start a game against an unfair deck without 4 copies of daze in your deck, doesn't matter if you're on the play or not;
    2. You can consider taking out some dazes if you're on the play against a fair deck if you have better stuff to put in. However, you should prioritize taking out your forces of will first;
    3. You can consider taking out up to 4 dazes if you're on the draw against a fair deck, if you have better stuff to put in. However, you should prioritize taking out your forces of will first.

    I think there are nuances to this, but it's a good start.

    2. The answer to question #2 is in answer #1. Dragon Stompy is to be considered an unfair deck, since blood moon resolving early in the game is 95% lights out.
    Black, Red and Blue can't destroy enchantments due to color pie still having some relevance in this game (despite tnn). Watcha gonna do. You could argue for SB bounce spells or enchantment removal, but still you'd need an active deathrite for that.

    3. Most recent successful lists feature 1 trop 2 volc 3 seas. The reasons for this are: a. That drs start has priority over everything else. b. That sideboard is full of key black cards, sometimes even featuring . Some people are playing 1 trop 1 badlands 2 volc 2 seas. Recent winner of GP seattle was on 1 trop 3 vulc 3 seas with 7 fetches. Those configs can work too I guess.

  3. #1603

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by pipet76 View Post
    Do you keep all of them on the draw against tempo or storm? Do you take them all out against control (a lot of people told me to do that, on the draw and on the play)?
    I do keep all my dazes on the draw against Storm and tempo. As cave said, you always want 4 against unfair decks, and cheap interaction is critical in tempo mirrors. Not to mention, daze can be used to protect your duals from wasteland in a pinch (just cast an instant and daze it in response by picking up the targeted land, or better yet, see if you can trick him into responding to your instant and daze his spell). It might not feel good and it's usually card disadvantage, but it will keep you in the game.

    I do shave a daze or two on the draw against control decks with lots of basic lands such as Miracles or Stoneblade, although cutting all four seems excessive to me: they're still trying to resolve 3 and 4 mana spells after all...
    I do NOT cut dazes on the draw against 4c control, as that deck's manabase is all over the place and super vulnerable to Wasteland as long as you can keep DRS off the table.

    As I already mentioned, you definitely don't want to cut any number of dazes on the play against either type of deck (or any deck really)

  4. #1604

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Hey guys... I stayed almost one year without playing mtg because of studies, work, etc.. Now I am returning and I used to play with grixis, but there are a lot of conversations and especulations around banning shaman. What do you think? If this rumors are true, I guess I will focus on Canadian threshold already. I don't like to use a deck which is in the shadow of a banlist.

  5. #1605

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    The deck will more or less stay the same shell (we can cut the trop!) but will get weakeend. It's not like Grixis is the only deck that would get worse from losing DRS. Pyromancers & delve creatures are still very strong

  6. #1606

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazingxkcd View Post
    The deck will more or less stay the same shell (we can cut the trop!) but will get weakeend. It's not like Grixis is the only deck that would get worse from losing DRS. Pyromancers & delve creatures are still very strong
    I can't see one reason to continue using grixis delver if DRS get banned. Unless you really like the deck as pet deck.

  7. #1607
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiago View Post
    I can't see one reason to continue using grixis delver if DRS get banned. Unless you really like the deck as pet deck.
    It doesn't seem too crazy, the deck already has so much in common with RUG Delver which is probably the premier Delver deck in the event of a DRS ban. Blue's a must for Delver decks, and red is still strong with Bolt and Pyroblast effects while also leaving room for Pyromancer (admittedly awkward with Stifle, but I'm sure you could finagle the numbers to make it optimal). Black is admittedly worse than green as a creature color, but it does give access to Angler as well as sideboard Therapies if you're playing Pyromancers.

    Overall the game plan seems pretty similar to RUG, which I'll admit seems better. But it seems unlikely that DRS-less Grixis has worse matchups across the board when compared to other Delver decks.

  8. #1608
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Against Lands, does anyone ever consider running a basic Island? My local meta is heavy on fair decks, so I'm considering replacing the Therapies in my board for a while. Last week I beat Lands, but I might have lost if he hadn't misplayed. He loam-locked me once, and if I'd had an Island in the deck, I could have cast several spells, which might have been enough to make an impact since he took a while to assemble Marit Lage that game. But he had all the time in the world, because I didn't get a 2nd land until the turn he played Depths and Stage. Thoughts on a basic Island in the 75 somewhere?

  9. #1609

    [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    I have a similar question. What do you cut against lands?
    I have 4 decent cards to bring in: 2 surgical, 1 edict, 1 winter
    Last time i cut 3 bolts + forked
    Daze is really poor midgame but if I'm on the play i want to minimize his chances of broken starts.
    But I'm beginning to think that bolt may be better than delver in this MU.
    Any thoughts?

  10. #1610
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Hi to everyone.
    I've done this file for side in/out against the most common matchs-up in Legacy.
    There are standard choises without OtP or OtD.
    Hope it can be useful!




    Let me know if you agree with me ;)
    Currently playing:

    Legacy: UR Delver | UW Stoneblade | Grixis Delver
    Pauper: UR Delver

  11. #1611

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    I have a similar question. What do you cut against lands?
    I have 4 decent cards to bring in: 2 surgical, 1 edict, 1 winter
    Last time i cut 3 bolts + forked
    Daze is really poor midgame but if I'm on the play i want to minimize his chances of broken starts.
    But I'm beginning to think that bolt may be better than delver in this MU.
    Any thoughts?
    Actually I'm thinking -2 probes -1 forked -1 young peezy on the play.

  12. #1612

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by LucaT View Post
    Hi to everyone.
    I've done this file for side in/out against the most common matchs-up in Legacy.
    There are standard choises without OtP or OtD.
    Hope it can be useful!




    Let me know if you agree with me ;)
    It will take a bit to check all the mus that you wrote, but I found some mistakes here and there.
    Consider this notes as a sample, I'll complete them later.

    Ant: nemesis is the worst card in this mu here and you didn't include surgical as a side in (particularly strong if you pair it with discard spells) . You can also consider keeping a couple of bolts in order to shorten your clock and a possible answer to pesky creatures (xantid swarm/dark confidant)

    Canadian: not boarding flusterstorm and pyroblast in against a deck with Daze and stifle is definitely a wrong choice, if you don't know what to board out just shaving a couple or more copies of force of Will is fine.

    Miracles: since the banning of top needle is not a good side in, since the only cards you can name with it (Jace, azcanta and explosives) are not so big deal (especially if you run haymakers like winter orb and those cards requires mana in order to properly work). As I stated about Storm, even here to leave a couple of bolt can help you closing the game outta nowhere and answering Jaces and mentors.

    Other adjustments will come soon...

    Inviato dal mio RNE-L01 utilizzando Tapatalk

  13. #1613

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by LucaT View Post
    Hi to everyone.
    I've done this file for side in/out against the most common matchs-up in Legacy.
    There are standard choises without OtP or OtD.
    Hope it can be useful!




    Let me know if you agree with me ;)

    and VS Jund???
    Kolaghans Command and Izzet Staticaster are bad cards on our sideboard?

  14. #1614

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Hi, I've been testing this deck for a week and basically Probe seems like the hardest card to use:

    1 Do you ever board it out? For example against burn or very agressive decks like UR delver?
    2 If you're on the draw and you have a Y Pyro and a Probe, do you keep your Probe until Y Pyro is on the table?
    3 Post SB, you have Y Pyro, Cabal T and Probe. I'd guess that here we dont wait?
    4 I see a lot of SB guides in where we're suppossed to SB out G Angler against Sneak and Show, I see it as a great clock against combo. Is there a reason for ir?

    Thanks a lot

  15. #1615
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by pipet76 View Post
    Hi, I've been testing this deck for a week and basically Probe seems like the hardest card to use:

    1 Do you ever board it out? For example against burn or very agressive decks like UR delver?
    2 If you're on the draw and you have a Y Pyro and a Probe, do you keep your Probe until Y Pyro is on the table?
    3 Post SB, you have Y Pyro, Cabal T and Probe. I'd guess that here we dont wait?
    4 I see a lot of SB guides in where we're suppossed to SB out G Angler against Sneak and Show, I see it as a great clock against combo. Is there a reason for ir?

    Thanks a lot
    1. Yes, against aggressive Decks where Life total matters you can take out some (Mirror) or all of them (UR Delver, Burn)
    2. I am using it regardless of Pyro if I am searching for something like a Daze, otherwise if your play is streamline you can wait one or two Turns to get more info, I really like Probe before the first cantrip
    3. It makes sense to wait one Turn if you are planning to the Pyro Cabal Therapy Combo
    4. You can cut Angler against Combo Decks if you have better Cards to bring in, but I leave them against ANT and SnT for sure

  16. #1616

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Has anyone tried K Command in the SB remplacing the 2nd A Grudge or the Abrade? Or is it to expensive to play?
    I think I could do wonder against DnT, Blade, Chalices decks and 4c

  17. #1617

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    I personally never had great results with kco but I'm a rather average player.

    Lewiscbr is lately playing 2 cabals and replacing the 3rd with kco and he said he was really happy with it.

    I don't think it's reasonable to cut the Ancient Grudges for Kco as there will be a lot of situations where the extra black mana will make it too expensive if all you want is destroying a chalice for example.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

  18. #1618

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by pipet76 View Post
    Has anyone tried K Command in the SB remplacing the 2nd A Grudge or the Abrade? Or is it to expensive to play?
    I think I could do wonder against DnT, Blade, Chalices decks and 4c
    I have been playing Grixis Delver for some time and I have tried a lot of different sideboards. I have tried running Abrades, Ancient Grudges and 1 K Command in multiple combinations to see what would be best and what I found was:

    The games where you face Chalice of the Void, K Command is too expensive. We can win through a Stoneforge Mystic in other ways than artifact hate, but vs. CoV, Big Eldrazi and so on the Ancient Grudge just shines, because being able to destroy two artifact for 3 mana is just too good. This is also the reason why I went away from Abrade again. Sure dealing 3 damage to a creature is nice but its often irrelevant compared to the flashback utility of Ancient Grudge.

    If you wanna run Abrade I would probably swap the MD Forked bolt for it, and if you really wanna try K Command I would swap it for Liliana the Last Hope in the SB.

  19. #1619

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Guys, do you board in therapy against control? I've heard rumors about it but haven't figurer out how you play it.
    My peeve is that it's a bad topdeck in a match that might go into late game.
    In my LGS there's mostly control (grixis and UW) and Lands are abundant. Thus i never get to board in my 3 therapy and they mostly rot in the sideboard case.
    I've been thinking pf swapping the 3rd therapy for a second winter orb (<3) which has applications against both control n lands or a third surgical (decent vs combo) and great vs lands.
    Help and advice appreciated.

  20. #1620

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    Guys, do you board in therapy against control? I've heard rumors about it but haven't figurer out how you play it.
    My peeve is that it's a bad topdeck in a match that might go into late game.
    In my LGS there's mostly control (grixis and UW) and Lands are abundant. Thus i never get to board in my 3 therapy and they mostly rot in the sideboard case.
    I've been thinking pf swapping the 3rd therapy for a second winter orb (<3) which has applications against both control n lands or a third surgical (decent vs combo) and great vs lands.
    Help and advice appreciated.
    Fyi my SB is:
    3 therapy
    2 surgical, REB, edict, artifact hate
    1 liliana, casualties, winter orb, flusterstorm

    My plan vs grixis control is
    -4 fow
    -1 bolt
    +2 REB
    +1 fluster
    +1 liliana
    +1 winter orb

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