[Deck] Grixis Tempo

[AdventuresWithTarmo]

I like the idea of that Atreyu, as Lands is a god awful MU, and price of progress is a great idea, good way to close the game

Also, I'm guessing the 3x pyroblast is because its also an answer to TNN/Leovold, that's another great idea. Rather than devote slots to sup bar sweepers like marsh casualties and make obsolete (BB is hard for grixis, and 3 mana isn't ideal) you can use those slots on cards like dread of night and electrickery, which btw, is a bad ass sweeper. A good card even if you're stuck on 1 mana.

[Manipulato]

Blazing Volley from Amonkhet does the job of Electrickery for 1 mana less but at sorcery speed.

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/blazing-volley/

[brenden2000]

I am personally sold on Engineered Plague, although I am wondering how effective it will be vs D&T (naming Human hits 1 half of delver and pyromancer.) My thoughts on a SB are something like - 2 Pyroblast, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Fire Covenant, 1 Snuff Out, 1 Pithing Needle, 2 Surgical Extraction, 2 Baleful Strix, 3 Cabal Therapy, 1 Ancient Grudge. My mainboard has the following Creature Count - 4 Delver 4 DRS 3 Young Pyromancer 2 Gurmag Angler 1 Snapcaster Mage, along with 4 stifles over the 2 therapy 1 pierce 1 dismember slot. Thoughts?

[AdventuresWithTarmo]

That might just be better. You can sweep if you are stuck on one land. Against a DnT deck it might be weak to vial, but against elves, gg

[Atreyu]

Blazing Volley from Amonkhet does the job of Electrickery for 1 mana less but at sorcery speed.

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/blazing-volley/

Thanks for pointing it out!

I'll test with Electrickery by now trying to figure out if being instant is really important for it's usage. I'll let you know.

[exallium]

I did some spreadsheet / mu analysis today and got to here so far on a sideboard:

1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Pithing Needle
1 Fatal Push
2 Harsh Mentor
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Forked Bolt
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Fire Covenant
1 Null Rod

I have an alternative which cuts Null Rod for a 2nd copy of Ancient Grudge.
Fire Covenant slot needs to be a one-sided sweeper for elves / dnt / maverick. FC seemed most applicable across matchups. Other options are electrickery, volley, and demise.

I'm currently on 3YP/1TNN/2Ang, with 2x MD therapy

[Hamsert]

Hi!
I'm playing a larger tournament this weekend and I need some help with some main- and sideboard choices. I've played the 2/2/2 Version with good success but I've come to the conclusion that the Cabal Therapy Version has to be better in a field of unfair and unknown decks (decks I think will pick up steam are Elves, Show and Tell, ANT) or do you disagree? So here's what I consider sleeving up:
// 60 Maindeck
// 14 Creature
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler
1 True-Name Nemesis

(is 4 Young Pyromancer better?)

// 28 Instants and Sorceries
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Forked Bolt

(I'd like to have 1 more maindeck removal, Fatal Push, Dismember (kills Sanctum Prelate on 1) or second Forked Bolt come to mind. Possible cuts IMO are Spell Pierce, Gitaxian Probe (anti synergy with the Therapies))

// 18 Land
2 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage

// 2 Enchantment
SB: 1 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Engineered Plague (Elves and TNN Sultai)

// 8 Instant
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Invasive Surgery (good against Show and Tell, Elves and ANT)

// 3 Sorcery
SB: 2 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Sudden Demise (Elves and DnT)


What do you guys think?
Thanks for your help!

[AdventuresWithTarmo]

Hi!
I'm playing a larger tournament this weekend and I need some help with some main- and sideboard choices. I've played the 2/2/2 Version with good success but I've come to the conclusion that the Cabal Therapy Version has to be better in a field of unfair and unknown decks (decks I think will pick up steam are Elves, Show and Tell, ANT) or do you disagree? So here's what I consider sleeving up:
// 60 Maindeck
// 14 Creature
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler
1 True-Name Nemesis

(is 4 Young Pyromancer better?)

// 28 Instants and Sorceries
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Forked Bolt

(I'd like to have 1 more maindeck removal, Fatal Push, Dismember (kills Sanctum Prelate on 1) or second Forked Bolt come to mind. Possible cuts IMO are Spell Pierce, Gitaxian Probe (anti synergy with the Therapies))

// 18 Land
2 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage

// 2 Enchantment
SB: 1 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Engineered Plague (Elves and TNN Sultai)

// 8 Instant
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Invasive Surgery (good against Show and Tell, Elves and ANT)

// 3 Sorcery
SB: 2 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Sudden Demise (Elves and DnT)


What do you guys think?
Thanks for your help!

Hamsert, forked bolt over push/dismember doesn't sound bad. Our deck doesn't always need to have an answer to angler/tarmogoyf. If you consider young pyro, TNN, and angler, (especially pyromancer) we can hold our own against one. Sanctum prelate is a problem though. Kolaghan's Command is another option.

[AdventuresWithTarmo]

Submerge may be another option to fight elves. Not sure how good it would be be. Being new to legacy, what's the best cards to side out versus elves? Gurmag? I can imagine it gets chumped by visionaries all day, and is slow to get on board. What else?

[chaosjace]

Possibly dumb question, because that's what I do. Just trying to figure out my MD slots.

What kind of room do you want Therapy main for? I have seen it in the SB, I have seen 3-4 main, along with 2 or more Git probe, Right now my MD is 4x Probe 2x Therapy 2x Young Pyro, 4x Stifle, I intend to tweak these numbers but I am not completely sure the reasoning of the probe/therapy numbers I am seeing everywhere. I expect Delvers, DnT, Elves, 8 B-Moon red, imperial painter, reanimator. So Stifle has a good home in my meta, just not sure where my therapies need to be.

Thanks in advanced for advise !

[exallium]

Possibly dumb question, because that's what I do. Just trying to figure out my MD slots.

What kind of room do you want Therapy main for? I have seen it in the SB, I have seen 3-4 main, along with 2 or more Git probe, Right now my MD is 4x Probe 2x Therapy 2x Young Pyro, 4x Stifle, I intend to tweak these numbers but I am not completely sure the reasoning of the probe/therapy numbers I am seeing everywhere. I expect Delvers, DnT, Elves, 8 B-Moon red, imperial painter, reanimator. So Stifle has a good home in my meta, just not sure where my therapies need to be.

Thanks in advanced for advise !

Having both Stifle and Therapy in your board seems kind of crowded. I think other's boards make sense where you kinda chose either a proactive or reactive approach MD, and you put some form of the other approach in the sideboard. Like, Therapies MD and some extra countermagic in the board, or Stifles MD and a couple therapies in the board.

My concern is what you might be cutting out to make room for all of it.

[chaosjace]

Having both Stifle and Therapy in your board seems kind of crowded. I think other's boards make sense where you kinda chose either a proactive or reactive approach MD, and you put some form of the other approach in the sideboard. Like, Therapies MD and some extra countermagic in the board, or Stifles MD and a couple therapies in the board.

My concern is what you might be cutting out to make room for all of it.

Thanks for the response and insight!

I am thinking I want my MD to look like this now.
4x Deathrite
4x Delver
2x Young Pyromancer
2x True-name
2x Gurmag
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
2x Git Probe
4x Stifle
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
2x Spell Pierce
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Wasteland
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Polluted Delta
1x Tropical Island
3x Volcanic Island
2x Underground Sea

[Stevestamopz]

Hey all,

I've been playing a "bigger" Grixis Delver list for 2 or so months now that we have affectionately called Team Australia. I top 4'd a small 22 man yesterday with it after making changes to it post Top ban (no more Stifles, Thoughtseizes in it's place).

//Creature (13)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tombstalker
2 True-Name Nemesis

//Instant (21)
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Daze
2 Fatal Push
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce

//Sorcery (7)
4 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize

//Land (19)
1 Badlands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Forked Bolt
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Marsh Casualties
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Painful Truths
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction

I don't have much to say about the deck, just wanted to put it out there and see if anyone had tried anything similar or if they had any thoughts/interest in playing this style of Grixis over the traditional Pyromancer lists. Cheers.

[Big McLargeHuge]

Hey all,

I've been playing a "bigger" Grixis Delver list for 2 or so months now that we have affectionately called Team Australia. I top 4'd a small 22 man yesterday with it after making changes to it post Top ban (no more Stifles, Thoughtseizes in it's place).

I don't have much to say about the deck, just wanted to put it out there and see if anyone had tried anything similar or if they had any thoughts/interest in playing this style of Grixis over the traditional Pyromancer lists. Cheers.

Looks cool. I've seen a couple more midrangey Grixis Delver lists (I think there was one on Alex J Chen's stream that was more of a 4C list with 2 Abrupt decay, a maindeck Island, Counterspells, and Snapcaster) and it seems cool. I have Snapcaster in my sideboard that keep bringing in, might be smart to do it maindeck.

Speaking of which, here's the Grixis Delver list that Top 8'd MKM Frankfurt:

Mathias Schubert – Grixis Delver
Main Deck:
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Dismember
2 Stifle
1 Spell Pierce
4 Delver of Secrets / Insectile Aberration
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 True Name Nemesis
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Flusterstorm
1 Fatal Push
1 Dark Blast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pyroblat
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Fire Covenant
1 Painful Truths
1 Grim Lavamancer


Biggest curiosities for me are the 3 Ponder, as well as running only 2 Stifle. Well, regardless, it was enough to get a Top 8. I sometimes wonder if YP is the way to go anymore. I'm already on the 2 Gurmag/2 YP/ 2 TNN split that LewisCBR has talked about, but I always feel like YP is the weakest card in the deck.

[TheManWithaPlan]

I sometimes wonder if YP is the way to go anymore. I'm already on the 2 Gurmag/2 YP/ 2 TNN split that LewisCBR has talked about, but I always feel like YP is the weakest card in the deck.

I haven't been playing Young Pyromancer in this deck for the past couple of months. I have been playing a list similar to Stevestamopz's list (with Stifles). I don't feel like I wanted Pyromancer in this deck because it, being a 2 mana threat that is fragile and usually doesn't do much the turn it comes into play, doesn't play to well with Stifle.

Another thing I noticed wast that Stifle didn't fit quite right in Grixis Delver. I feel if you want to play a Stifle Delver deck, you are better off playing Canadian Threshold or Dark Threshold. Having 8 hyper-efficient threats, in Delver and Mongoose, is where you want to be in a Stifle Delver deck, and Deathrite Shaman is just a little too slow to be one of those 8.

[ironclad8690]

Pyromancer is good in that it can only be answered in a short timeframe before it spirals out of control and requires a very specific answer (sweeper).

It is what makes us resilient to Baleful Strix and the like, which are nightmares for creatures that go tall rather than wide.

I personally think pyro is great with stifle, if your opponent stumbles on mana pyro spins out of control and clocks them the fastest. It is the easiest way for me to win against decks like Czech Pile.

[Big McLargeHuge]

I haven't been playing Young Pyromancer in this deck for the past couple of months. I have been playing a list similar to Stevestamopz's list (with Stifles). I don't feel like I wanted Pyromancer in this deck because it, being a 2 mana threat that is fragile and usually doesn't do much the turn it comes into play, doesn't play to well with Stifle.

Another thing I noticed wast that Stifle didn't fit quite right in Grixis Delver. I feel if you want to play a Stifle Delver deck, you are better off playing Canadian Threshold or Dark Threshold. Having 8 hyper-efficient threats, in Delver and Mongoose, is where you want to be in a Stifle Delver deck, and Deathrite Shaman is just a little too slow to be one of those 8.

Went back a couple pages to find your deck. I have to say I really liked it, the 3rd Gurmag seems solid. Having played Death Shadow in modern, I'm looking forward to see Bob Huang's Death Shadow deck that will be in the Premier league. It could be cool to be playing those as our "nimble mongoose" in conjunction with Stubborn Denial.

[chaosjace]

The last event I took Grixis Delver to I ended up always shuffling away my YP, he never did anything in the meta i was in, was always going to be in the way. I think It's because I play more re actively with the deck.

[exallium]

In order to avoid asking a million questions about matchup theory, does anyone have any go-to resources for reading up on general delver strategy / theory and more specific Grixis Delver matchup analysis? I'm not really looking for a "board guide", more of a "this is the best way to approach a matchup, and this is why these maindeck cards are generally bad" sort of thing.

[ironclad8690]

In order to avoid asking a million questions about matchup theory, does anyone have any go-to resources for reading up on general delver strategy / theory and more specific Grixis Delver matchup analysis? I'm not really looking for a "board guide", more of a "this is the best way to approach a matchup, and this is why these maindeck cards are generally bad" sort of thing.

The thing is, there are several ways to approach almost every matchup, this is going to be pretty subjective. The decisions of what to cut in sideboarding are also very close. I am sure Nate Barton, Christian Calcano, and Alexander Hayne would all give you different advice, and which would you prioritize? They have all top 8'ed the last Legacy GPs with this deck.

I am in contact with LewisCBR right now, and I am trying to update the primer with his list and board guide/general sideboarding advice.